New to the forum, first post.
 

Hey everybody.

I've been waiting for activation for what seems like an eternity so I could say hi, and introduce myself. I've been a lurker here for a short period and wanted to get involved.

I started messing with video in August of 2008 when I did a family reunion video for my mother-in-laws birthday (which ended up being a huge family reunion with siblings that haven't seen each other in years!) using a lone Canon TX1 and Windows Movie Maker. After the reaction that I got from the family it just lit a spark in me that I want to capture some of life's happiest moments and have an impact on people. Family events, children, highschool seniors, weddings, etc. I want to make them dynamic and not look like something "Uncle Pete" recorded on his Walmart special camera.

I'm currently trying to juggle my faith, my wife, my kids, my full time job, my friends, and my new found love for videography all at the same time. I don't know how I do it. Less sleep I guess! I'm trying to be a sponge and read, watch, and just soak up all the info I can. I have SOO much to learn it's not even funny. I'm not even in this to compete with others so much. I took zero pay for my first wedding video because I was learning the ropes and needed to cut my teeth on something and build my portfolio.

Here is my first official wedding video (Canon hv30/hf10):
Babb Wedding (full video) on Vimeo

I know there's a lot to improve on and things I shouldn't do the next time. It's hard sometimes when I can't do everything I envision because I just don't know everything yet. There are parts of my editing software I have no clue how to use yet, haha.

So after I got that done, we did a wedding invitation video for a couple. Our idea definitely is not original, but we sorta made it our own.

It's here (Canon hf10):
Rogers Wedding Invitation on Vimeo

You guys can tell me what you think. I think I can handle it. haha

I'm in the process of getting some new gear, but I don't know if I should upgrade to a prosumer style cam, or get something newer in the consumer territory since customers are liking my stuff anyway, and use some of the extra cash to get things done in other areas. (i.e. cineform, some tutorial dvd's, steadicam merlin, couple hard drives, etc.)
I have about $3,500ish to spend. I just bought the Zoom H4n for audio purposes.

I'm open to ideas.

Thanks everyone. Have a good day.

-Brad

Great stuff Brad! What are you using to edit with right now?

If you are going for a steadicam I would definitely put the merlin on the list.That will make a huge difference with some of the shots you're trying.I just got into this as well.Editing is such fun until you have 5-6 edits in waiting....lol then it starts to feel a little bit more like a job:) We have the sennheiser wireless g2 for ceremony audio and it works great.I also have a little yamaha field recorder for back up and ambient.There is always something new that you'll need.I'm still checking off my wishlist at B+H....lol

Ryan

Brad... thanks for sharing. I really enjoyed the invite. The creativity was perfect and the shots were beautiful. I cant wait to see some more of your work in the future.

Steve

Thanks man. I'm using Sony Vegas Pro 8.0c and waiting for 8d or 9 to come out at NAB (hopefully).

Thanks Steve, I appreciate it! I've already got another wedding booked with 3 more interested. Needless to say this is all happening really fast.

Brad - very nice especially for your first! I can relate to your story about the "spark". My story is almost identical. As for the gear, you'll want to consider uping your budget if your going to get serious about this. I would advise against the consumer cam. Check out the " what camera should I buy" forums and see whats working for others in the field. A good wireless audio setup is a must. The Merlin ( or another good stabilizer) would be a great investment if you can swing it. Also a good tripod or monopod. Leave room in your budget for the small stuff too which add up - media, batteries, cases, lighting. I spent $10K on my initial investment but luckily made it all back in a little over a year. Sounds like you have some momentum and a good eye for this kind of work - go for it! Oh - and read this forum everyday. I learned everything I know from the pros on this board.

Art

I too thought your film showed an originality in shoot and edit. You've got to love barrel-distorting wide-angles to be one of your clients, but in some ways this suited the happy-go-lucky viewpoint I thought.

Art, thank you muchly for the kind words. It all boils down to this.....I have no more room in my budget right now. Honestly. My daily job is suffering the same downfalls as the rest of the economy and I have to be VERY careful with how I spend right now. I am the main source of income for my family. Wedding videography is actually costing me right now. Almost to the point of flat out quitting video for now. People keep urging me not to. I understand that $10k or so is a good round number but the finances just aren't there man. I refuse to go into debt further to get this going, regardless if it will pay for itself.

So like I said, it's either look like a pro with a prosumer cam (haha) and have nothing else, or it's back to another (nicer) consumer cam and look like a chump but still produce good videos the way I want them to be.

Can you say between a rock and a hard place? I'm lost.

-Brad

I guess my clients aren't picky. That Raynox semi-fisheye saved me a few times in really tight quarters. Besides, like you said, it fit with the mood of the video.

I will continue to say that my partner and I have a different take on things and how we capture wedding days. It's very non-traditional and we don't mind that at all.

cheers,
-Brad

Hi Brad and fellow Vegas user (think most here are Adobe peeps).

Just downloading your vid now, need to let my machine buffer a bit (cheap laptop, big rig is upstairs).

Our startup was similar to yours, filmed a friends wedding just for fun, edited it, good reaction, decided to make a few more to make some cash. Planned to just buy a camera and film. HEre we are 2 years later after investing in 2x FX1's, Glidecam with vest, Lav mic, lights, tapes, bags, more mics, voice recorders and a whole load more and about to buy a Steadicam Pilot. So much for the plan of making a little cash on the side.

Youll either be somone who wants to spend as little as they can and churn them out or like us where you want to get better and better and be seen with the best of them.

Personally, hate fish eye, no idea where your using it yet, still downloading.

THe steadicam will be your best investment, that and a Glidetrack (go on, you know you want to). As long as you can master it and it fits your style youll love it.

Danny,

thanks for the comments. Trust me, I don't "like" fisheye persay for wedding video. It was something I tried and wanted to use. Most people who aren't in the industry probably wouldn't even notice. I highly doubt I would ever use anything like that again. It's not a strong fish anyway, hence the semi-fish.

As far as my work goes, I'm really not concerned with getting high acclaims or competing so much. I could care less if I ever see an award or a "top 10 wedding videographers..." honor. It's not about that. I want to capture weddings for people and show them in an artistic manner that makes me feel good and will hopefully have an impact on people. If this only stays part time and I make some side money, ok. If it blows up and becomes more than I can handle with a full-time job already....then maybe I will take it a step further and turn it into a career.

Until then, I'm forced to cut corners, be frugal, and try to make wise decisions. A new camera is first and foremost. Right now I'm stuck using my photographer friends HV30. Which doesn't bother me so much because I feel the HV can produce good images.

As I stated, all I have for audio is a Zoom H4n. Either setting up front and capturing or hooking straight up to the soundboard. I have a fluidhead Velbon tripod which I like. That's about it. I know my gear is laughable. I just sold my HF10 with accessories and my Letus 35mini w/support rods.

If I went higher end cams it would either be HMC150, FX1000, or maybe the 5D MKII with a lens or two. If it were consumer end, it would be the XR series from Sony or another HV30. I have a handle design that I may be producing and selling for the HV series which turns the consumer cam into more of a prosumer feeling cam. It's nice to be in the CNC world and have highly skilled friends. haha

-Brad

the velbons are very much understated.

Owning the velbons and manfrottos and libecs I can honestly say the velbons are poor!

Good value for money, yes, but poor non the less.

Poor friction and terrible locking for the fx1!

Man, there's a strong European representation here. haha A lot of responses from the UK.

Anyway, yes...put a Velbon against a Manfrotto any day it will look silly in comparison.

Strapped for cash, they're golden.

Brad - have you considered buying pre-owned gear? For example I've seen used XH-A1s for sale for $2000-2500. Might be a way to stretch the budget.

Art there lies the double edged sword for me. I don't mind used gear so much, but it has to be friggin' pristine. "Mint" if you will. Zoompoint on Ebay has extremely well kept used gear but they also don't give a huge discount either. Customer satisfaction is very high though.

Where do you suggest I look?
How many hours on a used HDV cam is acceptable?
Are V1U's really any good considering they're apart of Sony's "Pro" series?.......
Sony HVR-V1U 3CMOS MiniDV Camcorder HVR-V1U HDV V1 MINT - eBay (item 350175348520 end time Mar-17-09 17:57:57 PDT)

Since you mentioned XHA1.....
Canon XH-A1 1080i HDV Camcorder 24P 3CCD XHA1 A-1 - eBay (item 350176821679 end time Mar-21-09 01:39:03 PDT)

Near mint condition FX1.....
*Sony HDR-FX1 HDV Camcorder HDRFX1 FX-1* - eBay (item 350175426553 end time Apr-06-09 23:47:47 PDT)

Part 1
 

Brad,

I'll give you a pretty long "brain dump" if you will. Hopefully this will provide some insight and assist you in your potential hobby or business. Of course, these are just my opinions, so YMMV.

Roughly 6 years ago I filmed my first wedding for a friend (I included a shot in my company promo from this wedding because it just worked out so well), using a completely forgettable canon consumer camera. But it was bright out and it got great looking pictures on the 1/6" CCD. The second wedding I shot, also bright outside and this time no wind, so I got decent audio. That was the first year of shooting. 2 shoots. All borrowed gear. No expenses. No income.

Years 2-4 included about another 4-6 shoots, mostly for other friends, and a few actual paying clients. In the time period from years 2-4 I didn't purchase anything but software. I purchased Vegas 6 (at the time) for around $400.

The reasons for Vegas over Windows Movie Maker (or anything else for that matter) .... strong community right here at DVInfo ...... it did basically everything pretty well..... it had bundled DVDA for authoring / burning.... and it was cheaper than everything else that mattered. I tried virtually all of them (except Mac only FCP). I tried Liquid, Avid, Premier, and Vegas (possibly a few other consumer oriented ones). I choose Vegas because it "just clicked for me" and I got lots and lots of free tutorials & advice right here on DVInfo.

I found more info here on Vegas than any other place so I decided that the strong community support could help me through the learning curve. And the learning curve on a real NLE (as opposed to iMovie / Windows Movie Maker) is a bit steep, but less so for Vegas than the others (assuming you are a PC user).

Then year 3-4 is when I rented gear and had minimal fees for shooting a wedding ($300-$600). I found an ad agency that rented out their XL1 and XL1s cams with incredibly good tripods (probably $3k each). The optics left something to be desired, but the cams were native 16:9 (I think) and I could use them well enough. I also rented a friends HDR-FX1. Obviously I preferred the Sony FX1 to the Canon XL1, but the FX1 took a trip to Japan with its owner for a few years so I had to resort to the XL1.

I made virtually no money on these first 4-5 weddings over the first few years because I purchased an edit PC, Vegas, and Cinescore, accounting software, and paid for mileage reimbursements back to myself at the IRS standard rate. In essence, I got used to the idea of running the video biz like a business to make sure I could handle it (the jury is still out on if I am handling it correctly :-).

The reason I didn't buy any cams was I wanted to make sure this was something I was going to enjoy and be good at.

Then at the end of 2007, I made the jump and put all the proceeds from my self employment IT support biz and my wife's self employed tutoring biz (roughly $3K) into a used Canon GL2 with a case, tripod, and LANC. I purchased from a DVInfo member which is virtually the ONLY way I recommend shopping for used gear. I put another $350 or so into a AT897 shotgun, and another $250 or so into an Azden VHF wireless kit (almost totally useless), and the various odds and ends need to shoot a wedding.

I had roughly 5 weddings booked in Q1&Q2 of 08 simply by my web site and word of mouth from previous clients or friends. I also changed all my pricing from the "hobbyist level" packages of <=$600 or so for 1 cam shoots, to the slightly more respectable pricing of around $1100 for two cam shoots (I still rented cams 2/ 3 from the ad agency at horrible prices).

My first 08 wedding was a massive massive wedding and I put the entire wedding fee (after paying 1/2 to another DVInfo member to staff cam rental and to staff cam 3) into a MultiRig and a WD-58 (wide angle lens) as well as various XLR cables, etc (roughly $200 in cables in one trip to B&H!).

Then for the others weddings I booked that spring, I immediately put all the payments into all the other odds and ends to run the video biz. More cables, more accessories, a backup POS consumer cam (Panasonic GS320 & tripod) to act as a VCR deck and emergency backup, an accounting PC (also for network rendering), and lots of other mileage reimbursement costs, cell phone bill splits (I was fully self employed by this point), etc etc.

Then after the summer season and after lining up a final Sept 1 wedding, I purchased a second GL2 cam, again from a DVInfo member (same one that helped me with the first 08 shoot). That cam cost was the entire fee for the Sep wedding. Then I booked a Nov wedding at my new "2008/2009" pricing (which is a bit more professional and put me in the middle / bottom of the professional market in my city... keeping in mind that I am still shooting SD and most of the others have moved to HD). I put the entire fee for the Nov wedding into a very very nice AudioTechnica 1820 dual UHF receiver on cam wireless system (light years better than the VHF system).

And now that brings me to today. I've doubled my bookings each year for 4 years. I have a three cam setup with two ops (my wife is built in second op). I have no company debt, but I'm using old gear. And so far... the verdict is that I still like doing this and want to keep trying to make the biz work. I say "make it work" because the biz lost money in FY07, and barely made anything in FY08 (just 1/2hr ago I finished my company taxes for 08).

So.... now that you know where i came from.... here are my suggestions.... (see next post)

Part 2
 

......

Since you have a second job, treat the video biz as a hobby. Invest the profits in gear, but don't borrow, go broke, or endanger the family emergency fund to get gear (you do have $6k in an emergency fund, right?).

Upgrade & replace as bookings allow. You will be sorely tempted to get a Merlin/glidecam, glidetrack, multiple EX1s, etc etc etc (insert never ending list here). But I must caution you not to get gear lust before you are sure you want to jump in with both feet. Slowly accumulate additional gear as income / bookings and need allows. If you have a bad experience with a piece of gear (or lack of) then put that at the top of the list for gear to solve an existing problem. Put it ahead of gear that gets you the "cooler shots."

Weddings can be time consuming. The video job will affect your family life if you keep a full time job as well. There just is a limited amount of time, and once you book more than 3-4 weddings per year, your spare time is gone. You will be spending your time editing and that may be when you realize that the video biz is or is not for you at this time in your life. 40-100hrs in post per weddings easily eats up your weekends & evenings. If you have children, that time is already in short supply (and probably better suited to raising little assistant camera ops any way... :-).

If you are going to go for it, if at all possible involve your spouse. That is a free female shooter who can go and get bridal room prep shots with out weirding out shy bridesmaids. She will learn as you learn (if she is game for being involved) and eventually her work will outperform the "lone video guys" you see offering cut rate $500 videos even if they shoot on high end cams but have no passion or creativity.

I absolutely love working a wedding with my wife. I've always wanted to work with my spouse and this is the way I have found to do that.

As far as you specific on what cam to buy.... I went with the "go used" to be able to do more and get my artistic experience and technical skills up to a level where I thought I deserved a "real" cam. Once I knew I was jumping in to serious hobby levels is when I purchased the first GL2. The backup cam was while I still had a full time second job, but after booking 5 weddings in one year. The second GL2 was after loosing my full time job and deciding to "have a go" at this video biz.

As far as HD vs SD.... it depends on your market. In Boise, SD is still "good enough" as long as you can demonstrate a killer demo reel to beat out the "lone video guys" with their static shots of the ceremony from the balcony.

Your market may demand HD. It depends on who your clients are, and how much importance you place on the cam. I decided to have a more complete video biz (multiple cams, great wireless audio, good editing PCs, biz software, etc etc) than have a killer single camera.

I'll stay tuned to hear how it works out for you and (like everyone else here on DVInfo) offer advice and constructive evaluations of any demos you post like above). I wish you the best of luck on this very interesting hobby / job / adventure.

Hi Brad,

Welcome to the forum. Editing takes time...sometimes more time than we can give. Faith, Wife and Kids are more important than anything else, so guard your time. That may mean you grow your business slowly in order to keep everything in balance.

Now to a lighter subject...

I am originally from the Decatur IL area, now that far from Shelbyville. We are going to be in the area this week. We are doing a workshop in St. Louis on Tuesday and then we are going to shoot a wedding in Lovington with the reception in Sullivan, not too far from you. My Brother-in-law is getting married.

If you want to hang out with us at the wedding, it's Saturday, March 21. Just give me a call. 918-258-0258

You absolutely must take him up on this offer! I'd love to have that chance! (Don't forget to track miles and expense them at the IRS standard rate).

Jason, thank you very much for all of your insight. I'm taking this all in and listening to what everyone has to say. I know this whole venture is going to have its up and downs. Especially during these difficult times.

Take care,
-Brad

Don't think that I'm not! haha

I'm going to be super nervous the whole time though. I usually keep to myself and make friendships slowly. I am certain that it will be a very rewarding time though. These kind of opportunities don't come around very often.

Brad

Thanks for starting this thread. This is my second post and I'm in a similar positions as you. I've been at my current job for thirteen years, in a busy clinical labortory, as a Medical Technologist, in the same line of work for almost thirty years. Video has been a serious hobby for almost twenty years. Photography for the last three years. I've been picking up the skills for starting up a part-time business, and taking experiences from my other jobs into account. The goal is to be ready to make the jump August 2010.

My experience so far, besides lots of home movies, are two weddings, two large concerts for the university next door to my house, a short for my employer (the marketing department loved it, and I found out about releases etc.) and Christmas plays for my church ( with about 1000 families in the membership. Everything has been for free so far. I've explained they are my training projects to learn the workflow and to gain FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE dealing with the problems. So far, the plan is on schedule. My equipment is adequate to learn the ropes with: 2 Canon HV30s, a JVC GR-HD1, two tripods (one has a nice Gitzo head), two monopods, (one is a nice Manfroto 682B). Two still cameras (Nikon D40 and a Canon point and shoot). All cost effective and paid for. A decent editing system I've been using 3 years.

One thing I've learned in 30 years of high tech experience in the lab--Murphy's law! Technology can fail no matter how much it costs. Some of our analysers cost more than my house. That's why I try to get at least two of everything essential. If I can't afford two, I can't afford one. Well over 90% of new businesses fail the first year. I'm studying the reasons why. Avoid too much debt. Make wise decisions. Take time to learn the ropes. I'm fifty three. Time to seriously consider the third major career change of my life.

Threads like this one are especially helpful. There's a group called Professional Videographers of Central Florida about an hour away. I'm going to their next meeting March 31st to check it out. WEVA will be in Orlando again this year. I've got friends who are lawyers and accountants helping me get the business started. With people I know at the clinic (more than 200 doctors), the large church I've been a member of for twenty years has more than fifty weddings a year, and the rapidly growing University about 100 yards from my front door, there is a HUGE network of potential clients.

Any and all tips are welcome. The only real tips I have for Brad now are to involve your friends and family. Put them first. Now is not the time to be reckless. Don't ruin your health by working too much.Some trouble in life is unavoidable, but the vast majority comes from making poor decisions. Follow your heart, but keep your head. Take risks, but don't be foolish. Give yourself time. Make a plan. Make adjustments as needed. Don't be pushy, but don't be afraid to ask for help.