One of our Short Wedding Films - Warning 45 min.
 

Hello Everyone,

I am planning on putting a series of our Short Wedding features up on Vimeo. I've seen many, many trailers, demos, recap edits but I don't think anyone has ever posted an entire Short Form Wedding. Many of these trailers are absolutely breathtaking. I've made the decision that we will start making trailers of our work as well as it seems to heighten the visual impact for clients that may only get a chance at a brief glimpse our work and if that happens at a lull then they don't get the true picture of the short form. Clients that have sat thru an entire short however want nothing else but same for their wedding. Thats why I want to also post entire Shorts as well. We take the candid approach to filming a wedding and film a ton of stuff without trying to interfere with anything. I hope to introduce perhaps more staged sequences as we grow. I've actually never seen anyone else's short form video so this is our own perspective. We hope that you will like what we do.

Thank you

GMan

Angele & Mike - A Wedding Short Film on Vimeo

I didn't sit through the whole thing, but the different parts that I saw looked very good! Well done.

45min is a "short"?

I guess it's a good thing my clients won't be paying very high dollar for my videos, because I tell them that a "full video" is 15-20min. in length. I can get all the content from the day that I shot and need into that time frame. I tell my clients that keeping the attention span of anyone for much longer than that is a chore and most of them agree. This seems more like a full feature than a short to me. But then again, I'm new to all of this so I'm pretty jaded. haha

I'm sure your clients from this wedding were very happy with the end product though!

What ?
Most ceremonies are longer than 15-20 mins, so how can you get the whole day into 15-20 mins ? Are you going to cut down the ceremony ? You can't do that, it's the most important day of their lives.
I don't cut the ceremony or speeches, even if they are boring, if the client gets fed up with watching those parts then they can easliy fast forward to the next chapter.
It's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

Paul.

I don't understand this mindset and this is why I offer something different. I don't want my clients "fed up" with anything. I want them glued the whole time.

Besides....they cut corners so badly that the DJ was ridiculously horrible and the audio from the reception was useless. Literally useless. Plus, the MoH and Best Man's speeches were dumb, and hardly heartfelt. Everyone was like..?? I wouldn't have wanted it in my OWN wedding video. It was borderline laughable and I don't mean in the "haha" way. The clients paid nothing for my video, and she loved the end product (cried). I don't see where the problem is.

Anyway, we don't need to discuss this here anymore, I started a thread for it. This thread is for Gino.

There is no right or wrong way, each style is unique and acceptable.

For example, our new style is the main feature being 30 mins long, including a cut down ceremony, speeches and the rest of the day. Its quite difficult doing it this way. This is something people will want to watch over and over without skipping through the boring bits. If there are boring bits something is wrong.

Then we give them the bonus disk, which contains all the boring bits. Ceremony, speeches and all the rest, watch it once, in the drawer it goes.

Hi Gino,

I watched the beginning part and thought on the whole there was some nice shots there.

A few wobbles! but what struck me the most was there was no live sound. I cannot comment on later, as my attention span is not good for 45min!

As for wedding films, whilst we prefer the shorter edit, we give the customer what they want. I have yet to convince an italian, nigerian, asian that I will be presenting them with a 25min wedding video!

My best work would be within that time span. The longer the wedding, the harder it will be to keep anyones attention. Yet I am here to please the customer. I do convince them they also need a condensed version, and make more money!

I just shot my first full solo wedding yesterday, will start editing probably Wednesday. My plan is to give them a cinematic 20 min or so summary of the entire event (including highlights from the rehearsal dinner) and a complete video of the ceremony, which lasted just over 30 min, then short, complete shots of the main events of the reception.

Hi Brad,

It's the upper limit of a Short but I still regard this as a short considering our full documentary styles are almost usually 2 hrs long. I sometimes ask clients how long they think the video was, most guess much less than actual so I don't think keeping the attention span is a problem. Thanks for the nice comments, its appreciated.

Hi Danny,

Its funny you call it the bonus disk as that is what we call ours as well. It has the long form edits of the Ceremony, Toasts, First Dances and sometimes a gag reel or deleted scenes reel.

Thanks for your reply

GMan

Hi John.

Thanks for the reply.

A few wobbles? . . . just kidding, I'm sure there were. (glide track some day).

I do get the occasional up-brow when I try to explain the short form. Some even comment that "shouldn't it be cheaper then". It is a tough sell sometimes, especially to the parents. The only way to describe it to them is to show them a completed one, it sort of sells itself then. I also reassure them that the Bonus DVD has the long form edits of everything else.

Our opinion is that the short form it the best expression of their wedding day. Its my job too convince them of that. Every couple in every case has been grateful that I did.

Done properly 45 minutes will seem like 20 minutes which is the average that my clients think how long their wedding film is so I'm not convinced 45 minutes is too long.

Thanks again John.

GMan

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the reply.

You have to realize that most Editors that do Short Forms provide an alternate method of giving the clients proper edits of everything else. As an editor you provide them a greater service if you give them a cinematic piece and take out what's not essential. Its an artistic expression that captures the spirit of the day and is greater than the whole.

Thanks Again

GMan

Hi Gino, I totally agree with all that you have said. Next time I go and see a client, your coming with me! ha....lol..

Cheers.

Gino, now all you have to do is get better at white balance, exposure, framing your shots, transitions, music selection, story telling, avoid repetitive shots, glidecam,audio and general editing skills.

Sounds cruel to say these things, but hey...Iknow you wanted and needed to hear this too!

I think that applies to a lot of us.

Thanks Gino I enjoyed watching and learned a few things

Tom,

Ouch! You said a mouthful without saying much at all. I'm not sure this is helpful criticism or outright bashing. I don't want to take your tone in this reply so I'll just say that I think your mistaking creative intent as perceived errors. Do you really think we don't know how to set white balance or control exposure . . . come on. Have you watched any movies lately white balance is all over the place and expsosure (under or over) is used to set the tone or mood or place people in a specific environment. We strive to do the same. How about glidecam, some of our shots are handheld and thats not a bad word. I don't think you get it, we don't want everything perfect, we want texture, creativity, mood, expression a sense of pace using musical crescendos to reach out and heighten the adventure. Our shots are framed cinematically try it sometimes. We are not perfect at it but I'm not afraid to try. At least our piece envokes emotion which is our main intent. And we get an enormous show of gratitude from our clients which means everything to us.

I've had a chance to review your video's and while I'm no Mayad or Still motion, neither are you. Its confusing because a lot of what you list applies to your work, sometimes even to a greater degree. You have a relatively weak story flow and your shots seam to be all over the place with little or no connection. Timing, though, seams to be your greatest achilles heal, try working on that a bit. Oh and on a final note, try to be original, copying Still Motion won't make you Still Motion.

Please don't feel embarrassed and I hope you take this as a light hearted guide to put you on track. Hopefully one day you will open your mind and recongnize a more creative workflow. So detract from the mundane and allow yourself to grow. . . . I do really think needed to hear this.

Good luck, I'm sure you'll get there . . . . peace ;-).




Hello Paul,

Thanks for defending me, and thanks for your kind words..

GMan

Hi Gino,

With an answer like that you will be up for president next,lol!!!

I have to agree again. So many concentrate on the tecnical aspect of a shoot that they forget what it is all about. Emotion gets thrown out of the window and everyone is copying everyone else.

I come from the viewpoint like you. Emotional content with strorytelling is king. Technical aspects can be learnt but their is a greater skill in captivating the audience and engaging them with emotion.

Spot on I say.

Cheers.

Thank you for posting this video Gino. As a newcomer, I learned a lot. Please post more in the future.

Just for the record .. I posted one of our full shorts (about 20 minutes long) about a year and a half ago. I haven't posted one since because I got very little feedback on it. I think many on here expected something boring and just didn't make the effort to watch it.

Regardless, it looks like you're getting a good discussion out of yours. I promise I'll check it out sometime in the next few days. I'm completely swamped at the moment.

I was not frequenting this area of the forum 1 1/2 years ago, but I believe that I saw this video about 2 months ago. With regards to storytelling, it was one of the best wedding videos that I've seen. If its the one that I'm thinking of, its a tiny little video on your site and ends with a kiss in the elevator. Again, that one was an inspiration to me.

I would like to see more of your full videos.

Thanks Again John, your vote of confidence is greatly appreciated. I heartily agree with your comments. Editing comes from the heart, its an artistic expression not a technical merit badge and thats why it commands such great respect in films. There are companies here that can do both very well, but when it comes to driving their features, they place emotional impact above a perceived technical faux-pas. We are still trying very hard to get there. For now I will let an emotional edit guide us as it provides our clients a greater service.


Thanks Tom, I will do that. I appreciate your kindness.

Travis,

I should have listed DreamBig Productions up there with Mayad and Still Motion. I've admired your work for years and I appreciate your reply. I do hope you get the chance to review it, your comments would mean a great deal to us, but please be gentle. I would very much like to see your short. Is it still available?

I definitely second that!


Thanks for all your kind replies. I'm sorry about getting too negative back there, I really don't like doing that. This site is about engaging in real and helpful criticism and support and I would rather it remain on that level.

Best Regards

GMan

Gino, I watched your short last night. I thought it was well put together and will be entertaining for the couple. I'm not really sure what kind of critique you're looking for, since you asked for me to be gentle .. but here goes ...

- work on getting your shots more steady .. try tucking the camera against your hip while shooting, or pull your arms against your body

- ALWAYS clean your lenses before the shoot, and keep an eye on them during the day .. you had one shot outside the church where you panned up to the sun and it looked really bad because of all the dirt and dust on the lens

- work on getting your color a bit more consistent between shots .. I'm not talking about advanced color grading, just make sure that the color temperature is more similar from one shot to the next .. sometimes it was really good, but sometimes there were noticeable differences in color temp

- don't be afraid to cut shots if they don't really add anything to the story .. this area is very subjective, but I honestly think you could have shortened that 45-minute short to 30 minutes without losing the story .. again, this is all subjective and I have my own style and my own ideas and concepts about "story" .. so if you try it and it doesn't work, don't force it

Just to be clear, I think you did a good job with the short, and these are simply suggestions for improving your next one. After all, most of us are looking to improve what we do, right?

That's the one. It's not online anymore. It was up on my old website. I have a new website with larger videos now. d;-)

I may or may not post another short. It takes significant time to do that and my time is at a premium right now. But if things slow down a bit I'll be sure and post another one. I'd love to see some shorts from others as well.

Travis,

Thanks very much for your review it was appreciated. You have a very majestic shooting style, high quality, smooth flowing and very appealing and I do admire your work very much.

First off, lens cleaning, I agree, its on the checklist we perform the day before the shoot and I'm pretty sure it was done. I asked my camera man about it and I think we found that it must have picked up some pollen deposits while he was shooting thru some brush. No excuse but we do have to keep a better vigil on things.

Hand held shots, to me are acceptable. In the wedding industry they definitely seem to be a sensitive issue. If done as part of a creative effort they are perfectly fine. I really liked our cameraman's shots as the bride and groom exited the church. The slight hand held movement worked extremely well as I tried to create a surreal moment. I was planning to post two short excerpts of two separate weddings where we consciously introduced strong hand held movement to enhance Andrew Kramer's twitch effects. I'm kinda debating whether I should show them now.

Some films we do are anywhere from 20 minutes to 45 minutes long. The length is dictated more from our sincere effort to providing the couple and family a more representative experience. The trick is to hold their attention for the time period. As long as the piece holds up I see no reason to cut it down any further.

We are still experimenting so I probably push coloring grading to much here to try to create some surreal moment and there so its easy to understand why you commented on its affect on color temperature and you are correct. Please understand we do go thru each clip, one by one to create a consistent white balance before we try to overlay any color grading. Here is the the color balanced piece before any grading, glow, film gamma or diffusers are applied or before blowing out whites for creative reasons. Aside from my cameraman failing to change the WB preset when he was filming inside the grooms house (and I chose not to attempt to rebalance the over cool color temperature) I believe most of it is acceptably consistent.

http://www.vimeo.com/3443335

There are many subtle moments in the piece especially the marriage (excuse the pun) between the music score and film thats used to build emotion that no one has commented on or perhaps picked up on. Its not fair for me to expect anyone here to sit through a 45 minute piece that they have no vested interest in and ask them to explore those avenues, the client will do that anyway. All that anyone here can ask is sometimes its more important to look to the bigger picture.

We do appreciate all the great innovators here and we strive to learn from them without trying to copy (to much anyway) and still try to maintain our own individual ideals. We do still need to tighten up certain things and improve other things and we are confident we will improve on the more technical aspects of wedding films to help tell the emotional story.

Thank you to everyone for your contributions and your time and understanding.

Best Regards

Gino Mancusa

I can understand completely about what you said on the whole 45min feels like 25min to the couple. For me, I haven't seen my old family VHS tapes in a very long time. Most of them I only seen once when I was real young. They were my parents and my older sisters taping events. I only did a couple of times because I was too busy running around at 5 years old. Anyways, I took a look at those videos and it brings back so many wonderful memories that I had almost forgotten. All the little detail means so much to me. Great job on covering the event. Even though there were some moments that others have mentioned that could of improved, you did a great job having a lot of angles. (bad for you editing all of it though. lol) The only thing I saw that stuck out in front of me is some of your shots would just come in and go out for about 20 or 30 frames worth. If there would be any way you could stretch that out and fade the clips together... that might keep the flow going. Anyways, thanks for putting this up here as it helps me know that using that many angles are worth it. :O)

Hi Gino overall I enjoyed it. This is a personal taste but I'm not a huge fan of the constant vignetting/color grading. I prefer more subtle enhancing of the image. However, the section when the couple came out of the church was lovely. What frame rate were you shooting?

Hello Rick,

Thanks very much for your reply, its funny you mention some of the very very short clips. There's a term editors use, I read it in the "The DV Rebel's Guide" by Stu Maschwitz, an excellent reference guide btw, called killing your babies. Babies refers to clips you can't bear to part with but sometimes have too for the sake of the film. I don't think I'm truly there yet. I ended up keeping some clips in there that I should have probably removed and ended up having to shorten them to keep the story's pace with the music. Good call, I agree with you. We love using tons of angles and yes editing is very demanding but we too think its worth it. Thanks also for your kind remarks its appreciated.

Hi Joe,

Thanks for kind reply. We are still experimenting with grading trying to find our own look so its sort of a work in progress. Thank you for noticing that particular scene. Its one of my favorites in the piece and I loved the way it turned out myself. Too me everything just came together nicely, not so easy in live event coverage.

I think its 30 FPS (Z1 Cineframe 30 preset).

Regards

GMan