First Time Wedding Video
 

This is a wedding compilation I made over this past week for the first wedding I did. I used it for the menu of the DVD. COMPLETELY new to this so I know pretty much zero on how to do things but quickly learning. :) Please critique bad and good points of it. Also, what do people typically buy when buying a wedding video? I made this for the menu and just took video from two cameras to make the ceremony as the main feature. Also...it's in widescreen format but put into 4:3 (I believe.)

Also...I converted it to wmv for fast load time and it seems to have sped up the video and kept the audio the same to where it cuts off the end.

I'm pretty sure the 4:3 aspect and the audio sync problems are due to your WMV encoding, so we can discount that. But I'd hope your DVD menu was undistorted and maybe had gentle music rather than this voice-over?

Your colours are very muted (perhaps because it was for the menu?) but you've got to know that the couple see this FIRST, and you can't have wibbly-wobbly shots as an opener, it creates a horrible first impression.

So, for a DVD menu I'd suggest a shorter film going on behind the chapter options, maybe slowed a little and slightly washed out as you have here.

What do people typically buy when buying a wedding video? Explain yourself. You mean the number of DVDs or the packages that you offer?

tom.

I pretty much agree with Tom on everything.

A motion menu IMO needs to be much shorter (loop it) and no VO. As much as I like muted colors for certain things it didn't work for me in this case.
The most glaring thing was the very obvious handheld work. While I do like some "wibble wobble" (as Tom put it) in certain spots for certain shots, good solid,well exposed, properly framed video with really good audio is the best starting point for anyone starting out in the business. Tripods, monopods, stabilization systems be they steadicam type devices, shoulder mount devices or whatever, make for good friends and good solid video.


I could see the ideas were in your head and just need some work to get on to tape. Keep at it. Perhaps take another look at this piece with a more objective eye (I know that's hard to do to our own work) and think about a bit of rework editing.

Thanks for the comments!

It is the bg for a menu however, I sort of had in mind making a compilation video with it. Won't do that next time.

Tom, what do you mean by undistorted? And this was the actual video for the menu (though, I was trying to make some sort of compilation). Is the voice over effect a no-go?

The colors were muted using a color correction effect. And point taken on the wibbly-wobbly shots.

For what people buy, I mean the actual purchase. On all the wedding websites I've seen, all I've watched were compilation videos or love story videos. Are those just add-ons to the actual ceremony filmed?

Don, what do you mean by "properly framed"? We did film the actual wedding using a tripod for one camera but the other was hand-held. We're currently looking into a a steadicam or shoulder mount device. Any suggestions?

And I will definitely look at this with an objective eye! I'm just learning what to be objective about. :) Thanks for the help!

The distortion I was talking about was the horizontal compression of the image.

A compilation (or highlights version) is not a bad idea, fitting the whole day into the bride's favourite music piece for instance, and it can look great at the end of the film, with its own chapter point. But it needs to be the best of the best bits, and 3 mins should take about 4 hours to compile and sound track. Voice over can work with this.

The actual purchase? I give my couples 4 DVDs in with the package, but of course they can have hundreds.

tom.

Oh yes...it was filmed in widescreen then compressed to 4:3 when converted. So it distorted it.

So, the ceremony is the main feature in your wedding DVD with other things as add-ons?

No, no, no.

The main feature of my wedding films is the people. Always the people. A bit of the buildings, a bit of the add-ons but always the people, in long shot, medium and closeup, keep filming the people.

Remember that people like looking at people - it's why you and I are here. Also remember that everything's been paid for, from the suits to the candles to the confetti, table decorations, rings, choir, string quartet, shoes, DJ, Toast Master, cars, table plan, cake.

Film everything; this is the only chance you'll get. Make your film tell the story of the day. You don't need every verse of every hymn but you'll need all the speeches. The couple are your film stars, in the final edited film they should glow, so be very careful what you keep in and delete anything that's at all unflattering.

Watch as many wedding DVDs as you can get your hands on, and ask yourself what it is that makes that film good to watch, even to an outsider. Your couple will have been filmed in medium shot, using wobbly hand-held so-so quality camcorders, for the last 25 years. Make sure your shots are the very antithesis of this, using differential focus, good tripods, beautiful exposure - just like Don says.

tom.

Great! Very eye-opening. Thanks!

Do you know where I can get an entire DVD from a professional Wedding videographer for educational purposes?

Go to wedding fayres, ask your friends, click on web sites, ask here. I'd send you some but I'm 8 thousand miles away. There will be filmmakers closer to you who should be only too pleased to send you a complete wedding day film - the more films out there with their name on it, the better for business.

A 'demo' film is not much use - you need to see how you feel having watched a whole day go by in 90 mins.

tom.

While short clips or a demo is fine for a website B&Gs want to see a whole wedding. Honestly I can't ell you how many people I've talked to over the years that see someones demo and the finished product isn't anything like the demo. Some people use the best of the best to make a demo which is fine but if your overall work isn't like that you get a lot of dissappointed clients. Hard to stay in business that way.
You want each job to be better than the last. At least in your mind. What I mean is to never be compalcent about your work, always strive to get better.
You have to find a style that fits you and brand yourself that way. There is only one Mark Von Lanken, only one Robert Allan, only one Glen Elliott, Jason M, Oleg, etc (sorry I know I missed a bunch of names, no offense meant). I can do what Glen or Mark or Jason etc does BUT can I do it as well? Maybe but it's not really my style but man do I ever get ideas from watching their work.
As for whats included in the package, well no matter what style you do unless you're specializing in SDEs like Mike Gebben is now, the client wants to see their wedding, so the ceremony, reception is part and parcel to the package. Now if you do bridal prep or groom get ready or special rolling credits or the post ceremony photo shoot, they need to be included. A recap or highlight of the day is a great thing to include and that can be put on your website. There are a lot of different ways to approach the package and whats included. Personally, I have a long form doco package and a short form package that's more cinematic. A lot of the shooting is the same. You still have to capture the day.
As for putting WS ootage into a 4:3 format I have to ask why you did that. I'm curious.

Like I siad before you seem to have some good ideas but some of them just didn't come off on the finished product but for your 1st attempt, it wasn't bad, you just need to clean up a few things.

That answers alot of questions Don.

I didn't do 4:3 on the dvd. It was the first time I used vimeo so I didn't know how to upload it in ws.

Ryan,

You seem able to take constructive critiques, so I'll add mine. First let me say that my critiques (along with Tom and Don) are intended to help you, not put you down. I'm sure that we all have other things to do, but have taken the time to watch and respond, and try to help. It really is only our opinions, so don't feel bad. It is the B&G who ultimately decide how well you did your job, but as professionals, we should all strive for continuous improvement.

IMHO, one of the keys to being successful in this or many other things, is gaining a mastery of the tools. That means maintaining a steady camera, knowing where and how to place mics, knowing when and how to over-ride the cameras auto functions (which is almost always). How to maintain proper aspect ratios when editing. The first three shots in your clip frankly don't get you off to good start. Things improved after the 1:00 minute mark. Three things off the top that (to me) don't look good are: wobbly handheld, poor white balance, and on-camera zooms (the human eye doesn't zoom - so if you must do it, there better be a good reason for it).

Some people believe that weddings are a good way to start in the video business. Shooting Weddings properly is one of the toughest things you will ever shoot. It's a live event where you really need to be on top of your game to be good at.

Another thing that sets apart the good from the great in this business is the unrelenting pursuit of excellence. Set up a shot that takes longer to get. Shoot that exterior church shot from a couple of angles. If you need to re-cut the scene because it isn't working, you re-cut the scene. If you still need to re-cut the scene, you re-cut the scene. Eventually you will develop a vision which allows you more and more often to get it right the first time. But just because it's going to take longer to do it right - it doesn't mean you don't do it. Every job that you do is a commercial for the next one.

As wedding videographers, we also need to development the ability to self critique. It just speeds up the process. I don't believe I've ever seen a clip posted on here by Don Bloom. I'm sure that Don does great work - however I also believe that he is able to self-critique and doesn't need us to point out his lows and applaud his highs.

That is not to say that I don't appreciate and learn a tremendous amount from the people the post clips here, because that is one of the key elements to this site.

Great Ken. I appreciate and need the critique. Thanks!

I'm definitely open to criticism. I'm also not opposed to spending more time at all. I might have made around $3/hour on this here project. :) Didn't get paid very much and spent a ton of time on different aspects. (as well as learning things better)

All the resources we (my brother and I) have are a video camera (probably lower class to most here), a tripod and my editing software (premiere, after effects, photoshop, encore). Should we invest in a shoulder mount? New camera?

Is the white balance a problem with the actual videoing or should I have a better white balance in the color effects?

Also, on zooms: should we use less? None at all?

I'm thankful for a place to go where I can learn. Thanks again Ken!

I'm a young guy and just really getting into video editing over the past half year. There's a huge need for wedding videography in my area so I'm doing my best to help meet that need.

One more question for all: should I not worry about any of the color effects and shoot straight video for now?

Good questions you ask Ryan.

Any way you could apprentice yourself to a good wedding videographer on a shoot or edit? He / she might like the gofer help you offer free and you'd learn an amazing amount watching every move they make. Every move.

Shoot pure video I'd say. Not progressive, no stereo sound, no fancy effects - just rock solid shots that give the editor (important point this) lots and lots of choice. Use radio mics up close to the sound you want recorded. Have backup at all times - other cameras running, extra audio recorders and so on.

Certainly zoom, it's the fastest way to get from wide to tele and will give continuity in the edit - but cut out all the zooms later. Constantly vary your focal length and shooting position, get high shots, low shots, wide and tele shots. Keep moving, don't stop - the day won't.

Should you buy new kit? Depends what you have at the moment, but the HMC150 and Canon XH-A1 are probably the (XLR input) starting points. Whatever you have, learn to override the auto functions, especially the exposure. You can fix white bal in post, but much better to get it right at the time. You can't fix out of focus shots, or silhouettes against the light, or overdriven audio levels.

I'd fore-go the stabiliser for now - I suggest you put that money into a training day. And whatever you do, keep shooting. Video is the greatest of teachers, so go shoot as many peopled events as you can get to and critically evaluate your results.

It will take 20 weddings or so till you're feeling happy with your work. Oh, you may feel happy after the seventh, but look back on that film after a couple of years and you'll see what I mean. There's no circumnavigating the experience timeline my friend, and age does bring with it this valuable commodity.

tom.

Ken, you are 110% right. I AM my own worst critic as I think we all should be but I also have my wife of 40 years look at a lot of my work just to be sure. No I don't post work, I never have and doubt I will. Why? Just because I guess. I try to shoot solid steady footage and if an opportunity occures to get creative I go for it. Somestimes it works, sometimes it doesn't but as we all know, the magic happens in the edit suite.

Anyway, Ryan,you bring up a number of interesting questions and points.
First WB is done in the camera at the time of shooting. Correct in post if something happens really quick and you don't have time to re-WB. You want footage that is a coorect as possible to start with. As for whether or not to buy new gear, well that's something only you can decide. Do you need it? Can you afford it? I don't mean putting it on a credit card and paying it off over time, I mean do you have the cash it takes in your pocket so if you did buy new gear you can pay off the credit card right away, otherwise the gears costs you a lot more. A lot more.
If it were me, I'd stick with what I got, first to make sure this is what I really wanted to do, secondly to save money until I could afford what I want to buy and thirdly, to get better at what I was doing. Remember it's not the gear it's the person operating it.
Lastly, a good point was raised earlier. A wedding is a live once in a lifetime event at least for the B&G. I have always said that shooting a wedding is like shooting a breaking news event. It happens fast, it happens once and there are no do overs. Learn your gear, learn your edit process, learn the job, learn the business, never stop learning. Be a sponge. Watch every video piece you can decide what you like what you don't and find a style that suits you.
Also as stated, maybe good audio gear is a good place to start. Audio is 70% of what we see. Average footage with really good audio is way better than great footage with bad audio.
As for zooming, I do it all the time, well not all the time but as was said it's the only way to go from wide to tight and vice-versa. HOWEVER, once you've done some weddings you'll know the "safe" times you can zoom during a ceremony and in the middle of the vows isnt one of them. Not saying you did that but just to drive the point home.
Lastly, keep in mind a couple of things. 1) BREATH, yes you get excited doing the first few weddings but after about a couple of hundred well it's a job. A nice one but still...2nd) You can not edit what you do not have. In the beginning shoot EVERYTHING. Solid, well framed and properly WB'd and exposed. As time goes on you'll know more and more what you do and do not need.
Remember it happens once and fast. Be ready for anything.

Agree with Tom on all points. Though as far as new camera goes, I think you can be shooting much better with the camera you have. I have a $10,000 xlh1 and a $1,000 hv30, and one of the main differences is that I while I can do much of the same stuff with the hv30; I have to go into the cameras menu to do it, whereas the h1 has an external dial,knob or button to do it quickly.

Also I would add. Generally at the ceremony "PLAY IT SAFE". Two cameras on tripods should be able to cover the ceremony well with minimal amount of relocation required, and no need to go handheld at all. Just make sure that if you do need to relocate, that you don't move both cams at the same time. and whichever camera is recording audio, doesn't get shut off, as you can overlay the other cameras video during the movement. You're ahead of many in that you have two operators. Many of us here cover a wedding solo with multi cams to watch over.

As long as your camera has a mic input, you can (usually) adapt an xlr mic to fit. So I'd think that if you don't have an external mic, then you should get one. If your camera doesn't have a mic input - then you do need a new cam. In weddings especially - audio is very important. So I'd save up for a decent mic, as opposed to a shoulder rig, because even high end cameras need external mics (especially at weddings).

You also may want to think about an external audio recorder like the Zoom H4n. I just picked up a Zoom H4 for $100.00 (which was a good deal). The recorders can take mic inputs (xlr, and 1/4"), and they have a nice built in mic that, in a pinch, could be hidden near the B&G and sync'd in post. This wouldn't be ideal, but would certainly be better the on cam mics.

This thread is helping me learn a ton!

Ken, this may be obvious, but recording through the sound system is a definite no-no? How do you get the B&G as well as the minister miked? Would your own mic pick up everything? Do you use bluetooth mics? The mic that was on the camera (it's a sony handycam with a shotgun mic) produced not-so-good quality in the sound and the sound system was better.

Don, I don't use credit cards. :) I'm not well off either, but if I need something, I can make it happen. I don't want to spend money I don't have to though. I'll definitely invest in some audio equipment.

Tom, I'll try to find a good wedding videographer to help out one day. I don't know there there are many in Arkansas (there's only two listed with weva and one did not look amazing at all). It will be on my to do list. Will these guys not think of me as the future enemy?

A good quality wireless mic on the groom will generally ger the B&G and the officiant. I use Countryman lavs now but used Sonys in the past and with the omni pattern they worked fine. A shotgun indoors is pretty much useless except maybe for getting the music. Indoors for a ceremony a hypercaroid would work a lot better.

Cash is king! ;-) All I was trying to say is don't go into a lot of debt for gear in the beginning. Rental is another option if there is someplace or someone to rent it from.

Don't limit yourself to the list from WEVA. There are some real good vid people that don't belong to WEVA although in AR you may have limited choices.

Where is your city in relationship to Little Rock. I was just down there in September doing a wedding, was contacted by 2 other DVi members about possibly getting together.

Working with another vid person is a great way to learn. As for being "the enemy" depends on where they are, you are, what kind of person they are and how you approach them. Again AR is probably a bit different than my area (greater Chicagoland-big population lots and lots of weddings and lots of vid companies, big and small) so it might be easier here than there but it can't hurt to ask.

I recently moved to within 30 minutes of Little Rock. I would definitely love to help out where I could.

Ryan, Not sure if you're telling me it's a no-no or asking if it's a no-no to mic the sound system. I have mic'd the speakers (usually for speeches at the reception) as Don has mentioned in other threads. I've never done it during the ceremony. But if the B&G, and the official are mic'd with the house system, it should work. Keep in mind that although I've been shooting for 20 years, I've only shot about 25 or so weddings. Don and Tom probably started shooting weddings with spring wound Bolexes (those are old film cameras).

You will find that your on camera mic is practically useless during a ceremony. In fact I've got a horror story or two from using an on-camera mic at weddings back in the early days. You want to be as close to the audio source as you can get, so unless your camera is three feet from the B&G, there's a lot of potential to pick up other audio (crying baby, lawnmower, airplanes, inappropriate comments, squeaky pews, etc.)

I usually mic the groom with a wireless lav (Sennheiser G2 - thinking about adding Countryman mic though because they are incredible). The groom is always there early, and sometimes the wedding officials roll in at the last moment.

I find I use my lav mic way more than my Senn ME66 shotgun. And that's not just at weddings. I use it for interviews and anytime I don't want to be tethered to the camera. In fact if you're looking to shoot weddings seriously, I'd lean toward a good wireless system ahead of a good external shotgun.

The great thing about good audio equipment is that it won't become obsolete anytime soon. If you look after it, you will get years of functional life out of it. Even when you later upgrade your cameras, you can keep your mics.

As far as training resources go. You may find that the local pro won't be as generous with help as we are here at dvinfo. Mostly because we thousands of miles apart, and not likely to threaten our business. If you're serious about getting better, you can spend your winter studying others work on here and reading through thousands of posts on camera and audio techniques, and practicing with your camera. Learn how to get everything you can out of it. I've seen some incredible footage shot with crappy cameras, and crappy footage shot with incredible cameras. Not to mention the hours worth of wedding clips that have been posted here that you can study.

Actually, I started with a stone tablet and chisel! ;-)

Just an FYI, for ceremonies I use 2 lavs back to an Audio Technica dual channel receiver. I place one lav on the groom of course and another on the lectern. Speaking of course for a typical church setting wedding. Since my cams only have 2 XLR inputs and I need 2 for my wireless, I kill off the hypercaroid on my A cam. I know that the shotgun on my B cam will get the music (it's loud enough so the 'gun works out well in that case) and the 2 lavs will also pick up the music as well, even if it's just used as a scratch track. This setup has worked well for my for a long time and I am quite happy with it. The only time I kind of lose the officiant is during a Mass when he steps back to the table and performs the communion prayers (can't think of the religious names-too early) but a little work in post and it works out. Never had any complaints.
Anyway, the long and short of it is I kill the on cam mic on my primary camera. Yep, to much other noisy stuff I don't need or want so why bother having it on.

Ryan...

Mic'ing the groom is a must... Just like Ken and Don have suggested. I didn't invest the money into a nice wireless lav system but instead bought a few digital recorders. IMO, they work just as well... It's a little bit more work during the edit but nothing major. I use a sony on the groom and an H2 near the altar as a backup. I've always been pleased. This can save you a few 100$ IMO...

Steve

So do you not have them record the service on their recording equipment then use that? Esp. for like live music.

Ryan,

Most wedding venues don't have a recording system available. You need to be able to be independent. Stephen's idea is a good and cheaper solution and those audio recorders are great to have.

When you're at the reception, I usually ask the DJ for a copy of the B&G selected wedding music. They usually have an extra disk kicking around. The audio quality will be much better than most live recordings and then you can mix in a little audio from the event. This is about the only time your on-cam mic is good for anything.

Of course now I've opened up the discussion of using copyrighted music without permission...

as stated very few churches are equipped to record the ceremony and frankly I don't trust too many "audio guys"in churches. I have run in to too many that reallyhaven't a clue as to what they're doing. There are exceptions of course.

As for the reception, in this area, almost none of the DJs use CDs anymore. They are almost all using computers with the specialized software and have 1000s of songs on their harddrive(s) so getting a CD from the DJ is near impossible.

I trust my gear and my ears (I'm under phones ALL the time) and with the setup I use at receptions it'sas close to foolproof as possible. Micing the DJs speaker is an old trick but you need to use the right mic, so some say "well, just pull a feed from the DJs board". Did that and it cost me once. The DJ was a total moron and didn't have a clue as to what he was doing and really made my life hard in post so now if it's bad, I got noone to blame but me. If I'm going to take the credit, I gotta take the blame as well.
I know a lot of folks use the Zooms and so on for the ceremony and while I understand the reason I can't do it. I need to hear whats being recorded but that's a personal thing.
YMMV.

So you mainly mic the DJ speaker? What do you use to connect it to your headphones?

Also, a problem at this last wedding was that the guy playing the guitar had an electric acoustic that played about normal but his mic was super hot. This messed up the audio that we had, but wouldn't this mess up the audio even if you had miced the speakers?

I'm guessing this typically happens. :)

Ryan, it's basic audio setup. Sennheiser E604 drum mic (takes high SPLs) with audio Technica plug in transmitter (commonly referred to as a butt plug) on a mic stand placed in front of speaker. Generally within about 6 inches. That runs back to my ATwireless receiver that is attached to my camera audio input 2 and hence records to one channel of my camera. I have an AKG SE300 barrel with a CK93 hypercaroid capsule on the camera which I run to channel 1 on my camera. One way or another I get audio. For instance when people are using a microphone supplied by the DJ for toasts no matter what they do with the mic I get at least 1 track of audio. For music during the evening, I get 2 channels and since I can control just about everything about my audio, levels, placement etc. I get good stuff to work with in post. The headphones are set up to my camera. You monitor audio as close to the final point as possible.

As for your situation with the guitar, without hearing the audio, live, it would be hard to speculate. If the guitar was "normal" but the mic was "hot" how did the music sound coming thru the speakers and your headphones? Did it sound crispy, did the levels bars in your camera show clipping or in the red? HOw does it sound and what do the waveforms look like in NLE. If the waveforms are 1 big bar without peaks and valleys then you probably have a problem.
Knowing how to get around these types of things on the fly are some of things one must learn to be a true professional and to be able to produce a top quality product. These things sometimes take time and hard lessons to learn unfortunately but luckily, DVi memebers have pretty much all been thru it and can help along the way to ease the path.

Thanks for the specs.

The audio in post did clip and max out. That's why I was having problems with it. So that's an issue you deal with live. Didn't think about that.

Ryan,

Much to learn, you have, young Padywan. Listen to Wedi master Don.

Whether it's audio or video... you want to fix it live if you can. This refers to proper white balancing before you shoot as well as having things being mic'd properly. Now do you begin to see the challenges in shooting great wedding videos. On a film set, we'd just yell 'CUT' when things aren't going the way they should. At a wedding you really need to prepare for anything, and try to make the most out things that happen that are out of your control.

And if you do buy the transmitter that Don suggests you might want to order it buy it's proper name and not go tell the salesman that you're looking for a 'butt plug'. :)

The discussion has flared out well Ryan, and I'm pretty sure that all of us here would agree that getting good pictures is easy, and that getting good sound is hard, damned hard.

Wedi Master Don... Love it!

Wedi master huh, maybe I should put that on my business cards! ;-)

Hmmm, I guess I should come up with some WEDI saying to inspire but I am still laughing too hard at the inference to even consider trying to say something intelligent.
Thanks for the good time with this thread, its been a long time since I've talked to anyone with the enthusiasm and open mindedness of Ryan, it is refreshing.

Thank you Ken, Tom and Bill for making this thread enjoyable, lively and fun.

Ryan best to you keep asking questions, this is how you get better.

I was supposed to be shooting all day today... but I was totally rained out. So I had some time on my hands...

I almost spit my coffee all over my laptop when I saw this, just made my day.

O|O
\__/

Haha...thank you all for the help! The bride got back with me and said they loved the video so I didn't have many negative repercussions this time, but I'm definitely interested in raising the quality of the videos as much as possible.

Just got done reading "Refocus." My mind is officially blown. I read it in like 4 days (and I'm horrible and keeping up with my reading).