Awkward Client Meeting Clash
 

Sorry for the title of this post but its the best I could think of in a rush.

This hasnt happened to me yet but it's come close. I was wondering how you would handle the following situation:

When clients call me to arrange a meeting with a view to hiring me to film their wedding I, like most I presume, have a chat with them on the phone about their big day and the general points of interest to be friendly. We then book for, say three days time for a meeting. Once clients agree to a meeting its usually pretty obvious they want to sign on the dotted line and it's all in the bag (unless of course they get scared off by the price. I dont give prices over the phone or on my site, just a the meetings)

OK, In the time between this phone call and the meeting another client calls and a meeting is scheduled for the same day, their wedding is on the same day as the previous client I was writing about. Anyway, they arrive and want to sign the contract then and there.

My brain says you should sign when you get the chance but it seems a bit rich to then call the previous client and say 'sorry, you were beaten to it' especially if they are the wonderfull type of client that raves on how much they liked yours stuff etc.

anyway, I'm sure I could have described that scenario much quicker but there you go.

P.S I've just posted my latest "15 anos" Trailer (15 year old girls coming of age party) If you like to have a look and comment:

http://danburnap.com

Interesting thought, but at the end of the day you are running a business and as long as you are clear about your booking procedure then this should not arise as an issue.

Personally I advertise my prices on my site and in my brochure as I want people to have all the info before calling me, that way I dont waste my time or the clients.

Also, I make it clear that the date is only booked when I receive a signed work agreement (my contract, used that term as I dont like the term contract) and the deposit.

This way the client is clear that if they choose to take some time to decide they do run the risk of loosing the date, they always understand this point and it has never caused any issue.

Just my opinion and how I have chosen to run my booking process, hope it helps though.

I've been in simillar situations and I book whoever gets me $$$ first. I then politely and apologetically call the other client and say that I'm no longer available (which sounds kinder then - someone got me $$$ first!) and let them know that if anything changes I would be happy to let them know.

However, I do also disclose my prices on the phone and make them aware that unless a deposit is paid anything can happen. I've had people mail me a deposit and meet with me later on the assumption they will like me. So far no problems!

Maybe the best way to handle it is to not have scheduled the brides to meet with you on the same day once you knew they were looking at the same date.
I would think it might have been better to tell the second bride that you were holding a meeting with the other girl first and if she didn't book that day that you'd schedule a meeting with them. That might have made your situation a little better.

Whenever a client wants to go as far as to meet with me in person, I tell them they have a tentative lock on the date. I give them as much info on the phone as I can, including price. So basically, when they get as far as a personal meeting, they generally follow through with the contract and deposit.

If someone else calls in the meantime, I tell them there is a tentative booking, and I can call them back after the meeting if I'm still available.

My time is valuable. I don't want to waste time meeting with someone in my office only to find out I'm $1,000 over their budget. I also wouldn't appreciate that as a client.

In this business I think you generally need to book a contract when the opportunity is there. As for the other couple, you just tell them that another couple was meeting with you before them and they decided to book.

Also, I don't give my pricing out over the phone. I understand the logic of not wanting to meet with a couple that can't afford you, but in my experience I've had many couples who "couldn't afford" me before we met, but after interacting with me and seeing more of my work they "found a way". For the people who are really budget-strapped and are just price shopping I've found that not giving out my prices often deters them anyways. For everyone else, who is actually putting some priority on the quality of their video, they are usually willing to meet.

We do the same and it has worked for us.

Hey Dan.

Advertising prices will make people decide whether they want your service or not faster. And it will even get you ahead of the competition since sometimes people who like to be quick and effective will choose your service instead of having to call someone to discuss.

So it's one thing to consider.

I can't believe some of the responses I'm reading.

You need to give the first couple the chance to book before even talking to the second one. (I think Ethan said this up the line a bit). Couldn't the second couple wait 3 days?

A prearranged *meeting* to sell something for which there is only one item available is an implied contract in itself - or at least a courtesy. (That one item being your availabliity for a single wedding). A meeting set up by you is a gesture of goodwill whereby negotiations with all other buyers are temporarily suspended.

Keep in mind I'm talking about a face to face meeting here... not a bunch of contracts out in the mail for the same date all at once. (Which "first come first serve" would certainly apply)

Just my opinion...

I couldn't agree anymore with this one!

I couldn't disagree with this more, but let me clarify something first. If you have a couple that wants to book you, and you arrange a meeting for them to book you, and then you book someone else ahead of them .. I think that is wrong.

ON THE OTHER HAND, just because a couple wants to meet with me to see my work and discuss my packages doesn't mean we have some sort of "implied contract" for their wedding date. I seriously doubt that ANY of the couples I ever scheduled meetings with have felt they had some kind of implied contract with me. A meeting is just a meeting unless they have specified up front that they plan to retain a date.

Furthermore, if you meet with them and they decide they want to book, then what do you do? You've now met with two couples that want to book you and you are going to have to decline one of them. That to me is a worse situation because now both couples will feel like the date is theirs and you don't really have a good basis to turn either of them away.

Isn't that what he's talking about?

Color me silly but one DOES NOT break a prior engagement to sell something simply because somebody elses' money was a bit greener a bit sooner.

When somebody inquires about our services and is serious enough to take it to the next level (face-to-face) in a short period of time... you give them the benefit of some patience and courtesy as long as this meeting is within a reasonable period of time.

I'm not talking about a phone-calling-email-sending-tire-kicking bride... I'm talking about somebody you've made a bonifide appointment with.

How the heck do you sleep at night? Maybe I'm just assuming that 99.9% of you guys book the client whenever you have a meeting. I certainly do. *Especially* when somebody else is chasing their date.

And if you aren't booking most all of these at this time then something is wrong.

Am I the only guy here who almost never meets with brides in person? In the last 9 months I've met absolutely nobody face to face, but business has been pretty good. Is that odd?? I don't mind meeing one on one but it just never happens. 90% of my bookings happen via email or phone and I usually go into the shoot asking who the bride is cause I've never seen her before.

I'm not sure, but that is why I started with a clarification. If he arranged an appointment to book with someone and then arranged another appointment for the same day for the same date, then I disagree with that.


I sleep just fine and there's no need to bring attitude like that to this discussion. I recommend you don't just assume things about other people's businesses. I don't book a couple just because we have a meeting. Maybe you are marketing your services based solely on a lower price. In that situation a couple doesn't really need much more information to make their decision.

We market to the more discerning couples, and they want to see more of your work AND make a personal connection. I probably book 50-60% of the brides I meet with, so for me a meeting doesn't equate to a booking. We are the perfect fit for some couples, but not all. Thanks for pointing out that "something is wrong" if I'm not booking 99% of these couples, but I think my success in the higher end of my market disproves that.

Bottom line is don't arrange a meeting if you already have another couple that has arranged a meeting to book with you. If the other couple has only arranged a meeting to see more of your work and get to know you, and someone else comes along and wants to book, I don't see anything wrong with booking them.

Wow, that's pretty amazing. I don't think I've ever booked a bride without a face-to-face meeting (whether at a wedding show or our studio or whatever). You must have an interesting business model.

I shoot pretty videos and give them to people six months later in exchange for currency... is that a business model? Whatever it is, it pays the bills.

And Travis, you and Rick put away the switchblades and play nice. I don't wanna have to call your mothers.

By business model I more meant how you market to brides, what your product and pricing is like, how you interact with and approach the brides who contact you, etc. It's very interesting to me that you can basically book all of your brides without a face-to-face meeting.

Oh, and as for Rick and I, please don't call our mothers!

I would say half the weddings I booked were done so without a face to face meeting.

Perhaps that has more to do with geography and competition than business model. Due to the sparse population here in western Minnesota, the distance to my average wedding was 30 miles plus. Some as far as 75 miles. While that's not too far to travel for a wedding, it's maybe a bit far for someone to go just to meet me face-to-face. It's also not unusual for the B&G to think I'm the only one that shoots a cinematic style of wedding video - everyone else around here just shoots the ceremony from the back - so they believe I'm their only choice. They've seen my samples, they know my prices, so they book me.

Good points, and that's a pretty nice niche to have!

I generally book 30% of my couples without a meeting. I've found that a lot of Brides want to communicate by email and phone especially if its a referral or they just trust the name recognition. I avoid so many pointless phone calls by simply posting our prices along with our schedule of booked dates. I used to spend half my days explaining the differences between packages and telling people we were already booked. On the other hand I can see how not publishing prices would also eliminate people simply with the "if you have to ask, you can't afford it" philosophy. As for booking, if I have a meeting scheduled and someone else calls for their date, I always give a chance to the first couple. If they want you, they'll wait it out until after your meeting and in the long run you can get a bad rep for not honoring "first come, first serve". Couples can not help their schedules and when they will be able to meet. I believe the first one to contact you has priority.

Ok, I haven't been in this business long enough to have a "standard of practice" BUT.....here's my two cents:

I meet almost EVERY bride prior to shooting them. I get a feel for what they want and if they and I "mesh". Just because I'm "available" doesn't mean I will film your wedding.

By meeting a person I can tell if they are the type of person that will "ride my ass" so to speak, and make me crazy! I had one groom ask if he could come over while I edited and make "suggestions", when I said no he asked how many times he could return the video to be "reworked". He inquired how much additional dvd's were, I told him $25 (which is CHEAP!!) his response: "whatever, I'll just burn it myself". Goodbye, end of meeting, date still available.

I can't imagine not meeting a client first,if time and location permits it!

I totally agree. When setting up a meeting we stress that part of the reason for it is to make sure we are all compatible. I truly believe we also get much better referrals because we make numerous efforts to get to know the couple better, and people notice that kind of stuff.

I think the model works differently for guys who are price-targeting the market , though. When you're competing mostly on price there isn't as much of a reason to meet with a couple. They either like your prices or they don't.


One more thought. We've had times where we met with couple A and already have a meeting set with couple B for the same date. Couple A calls us shortly after the meeting and says they intend to book us. We still meet with couple B but we also inform them that couple A has stated they intend to book the date and that they have until "such and such day" to do it.

We don't cancel our meeting with couple B just because couple A has stated they plan to book us, because we've had a number of times in the past where couple A ended up not booking with us despite saying they were (various reasons - budget realities, dates moved, changed their mind, etc.). If we hadn't met with couple B in many of those cases we might not have booked the date.

Wow, ton of responses, lets see if I can say something new.

At the beginning of the day you have two brides interesting in your services who think highly of your company. At the end of the day, you want one of those brides to book and both to think highly of your company- that is really when you win the most.

Scheduling the second caller first leaves the opportunity for conflict like this and while you could have a booking, you could certainly have somebody else who doesn't have the best things to say about your company, and that never helps.

If you schedule the second caller for the second meeting, you can then tell bride A that yo have somebody else interested and they are welcome to take their time and think about things or pay a booking fee and secure the date (not the same as a retainer, which could be deemed too large if they canceled and took you to court). If they need time and bride B books, bride A will still have great things to say about you and perhaps even more so as they almost had you but you were to popular.

Very small difference in policy that can certainly make a difference in the long run.

Patrick

Patrick, I think that is a good plan, and that's definitely what we "try" to do here, but in the weeks after a wedding show that is when brides are scheduling meetings and booking, so our schedule is quite often as full as possible with meetings. Sometimes we don't really have a choice to schedule a 2nd caller after another bride unless we are willing to schedule a meeting with them that is like 2 or 3 weeks out, and by then that 2nd caller will have likely met with someone else and booked them. Then, if the original caller doesn't book with us it leaves us with an open date.

We also sometimes have issues with couples that schedule a meeting and then end up not showing up for whatever reason, and during that time of the year we might not be able to get them back in for another week or two, and again, they might meet with someone else and book them instead in the mean time. Either that or we meet with them and they call us back and say they want to book us and then before the next meeting they change their mind because of budget reasons or whatever. It's just been my experience to take a booking when you can, as long as you haven't already scheduled a meeting with someone to specifically sign a contract.

Also, bride A doesn't know that you scheduled an earlier meeting with bride B after you scheduled the meeting with them, so I don't really see how she can be upset. There are only so many hours in the day to meet with clients and also get work done, and many of our couples have complicated schedules that make scheduling meetings quite a challenge. So unless I've scheduled a meeting with bride A and specifically told her that I'm not meeting with anyone else for her date, I don't see how it's an issue. I think most of the brides we meet with know that we are meeting with a lot of couples and probably expect that other people are interested in the same date. Maybe things work differently in your market, or with your particular business because of how well know you are in your area. All I know is I've been overly accommodating in the past and it has cost me booking dates, and I can't afford that.


I am curious about this "booking fee". Is this a fee they pay to reserve a meeting to come back in and sign a contract for the date? If so, what is the deadline for doing that, and if they are willing to put money down to come back and sign a contract, then why not just put down the retainer and sign the contract right then and there? I'm just a bit confused on that.

Travis,

I am sure there are many ways to go about it, but the key for me is keeping everybody with a favorable attitude towards your company while booking somebody at the same time. Even a phone call to bride A informing them can do a lot.

If you have weeks in a row full of meetings, I would imaging your booking your whole season right there?

We call it a booking fee as a 'fee has different legal connotations than a retainer. Say we book a $15k photo/video package with a 30% retainer, that is $4500. If they then cancel and the couple takes you to court, they would most likely get a good portion back as $4500 would be deemed to high to retain services that in the end were not rendered. Should something happen, we alway do what we can to help the couple out, move things around, and refund them what makes sense, but it never hurts to have yourself protected.

A couple photographers have lost fairly big as of late due to the 'retainer' fee.

Patrick

You are mostly correct, Patrick. Our wedding show is in early January, and by the end of the month we have usually booked 75% or more of our weddings for the year. It is crucial for us during the month of January to get brides booked because we only book a handful after that. In my area most of the brides who come looking for a photographer or videographer later in the year are the brides who haven't placed as much of a priority on their wedding and generally are looking for whoever is cheapest, which isn't us.

Regarding the "booking fee", are you saying if you book a $15k package then you would simply call the 30% retainer a booking fee instead of a retainer, or is the booking fee a completely different thing? Sorry I'm still not getting it. I was up until 3am last night editing. d;-)

Old thread here, but I find myself in a similar spot. Eight days ago, a mother-of-the-bride (MotB) contacted me asking if a date was open. I informed her it was. Yesterday, I met with another bride about the same date. I did not call the original MotB to inform her someone else was interested (I felt like this would be a cheap, used car salesman tactic). The bride yesterday gave verbal intent, and informed me that she has signed our contract and mailed it in this morning - the money has of course not yet arrived. Now the original MotB emailed today asking me to put the date down for them as tentative, but wants me to meet with them first. In your opinion, should I just inform her that another couple is supposed to be paying a retainer within the next day or so, but that if I don't hear from them in a couple days I'll let her know? I guess I'm feeling guilty for not letting the MotB know that someone else was interested, but then again, it was seven days after her initial inquiry. I don't think I would have done it differently, maybe just looking for affirmation on whether other people who have handled it the same way.

On initial enquiry I state that I'll keep the offer open for seven days unless I receive a another enquiry for the same date. I ask for phone/text/email contact details for just this scenario. If I get a second enquiry I tell them I have a live enquiry but I will contact the first one straight away, If they do not or cannot commit within 24 hours the date is free. If couple two want to visit and pay deposit immediately they get the booking.
I've had a number of enquiry situations like this including once receiving two deposit cheques on the same day. Ouch that was an awkward situation.

I'm with George precisely here. We offer to hold a provisional booking only on the strict and clear understanding that a deposit in our hands or bank is the only sure way to secure the date.

With most people internet banking these days in the UK at least, eager clients can get the money in our bank within minutes.

Whilst I enjoy selling and warm to Travis' practice, the OP situation also sounds like a good reason to publish rates. There's no profit in selling to someone who can't afford the product.

The initial inquiry was, "Is your date open?" rather than "We are very interested. As long as the date is open, let's get this thing moving". I obviously won't be able to undo this situation, so your feedback will be useful for the future (and thank you both for it). In an instance when a passive inquiry is made, do you still tell them in your initial response that you'll hold it for seven days? If so, what do you tell the next person who inquires?

My seven day option is only offered to enquirers who are coming from a previous client family -e.g. my sister is getting married - or new contacts who want to find time to make a visit to me, or those who have made a visit and want time to think it over, I never act as a window salesman and force closure on a first meeting but I will take a booking if they want to.
This is never made to a casual - "is the date available" - enquirer. To me they are like web-browser and take their chances, if its gone its gone.

The one I mentioned was some time ago. I had what appeared to be a firm interest, the couple said they'd post a deposit. After some time, aboy two weeks, I had an another enquiry from someone in a family I'd covered before, very keen. I told them I was waiting on a deposit and I would contact first couple, if they didn't or couldn't send the deposit then couple number two could have the date. Couple one were still interested I told them the situation and that I couldn't hold the date any longer without the deposit, they promised they would send the deposit that same day. Two days later deposit hadn't arrived so I contacted couple two, they posted deposit and the following day both cheques arrived. All I could do was pass couple one on to another videographer. They had had longest time to get the deposit to me but prevaricated. I like to be fair and honest but I can't run a business on promises and possibly loose couple two and then one decides not to book anyway.