Weddings: How intrusive are you allowed to be?
 

I am not a wedding videographer, and really don't plan on it, but I have a curiosity I hope someone will indulge. I have been wondering about how you set up for filming the actual ceremony.

Assuming the church wedding. If you are shooting let's say 2 or 3 cameras, where do you set them up? Where do you place your mics? And in general, how intrusive are you allowed to be?

For the advanced shooters out there, are you able to put a small camera on a stabilizer and move about the audience? Can you put a tripod somewhere behind the minister/priest and get the over-the-shoulder of the vows? I've seen mention of a dolly, but I couldn't imagine this in an actual ceremony.

I am also curious if you have ever had a couple that wanted a true "Hollywood" type wedding and were willing to go along with the very intrusive nature of fixed mics, and cameras in awkward places. I'd imagine the number of people who would go for that would be incredibly small, but I'm wondering if anyone has had a client like that.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

That's really a loaded question ;-) The short answer to 'how intrusive can you be" is this. it depends!
Here's what I mean. 25 years ago when I'd walk into a church to shoot the ceremony they would look at me like I just arrived from another planet. The B&G simply wanted a doco of thier day. Nothing fancy nothing but a straight "news shot". Obviously things have changed over the years but in MOST churches (at least in my area) you are failry restricted as to where you can be and what you can do. This is really up to the officiant but in most cases that I've encountered you can not be on the altar and in many cases you can't even put an unmanned camera on the altar. That really limits your options but here's the thing. If you TELL the B&G up front then there is no expectation for the ceremony other than doing a superb job of documenting it. Of course there are exceptions to every rule (never say never-never say always) I've done outdoor ceremonies on the waterfront where the officiant told me I couldn't be up front to get the processional-the brides mother overheard that and together we had some "words" for the officiant and he did relent-he really had no choice even when he threatened to not do the ceremony (mom didn't care-her brother was a minister and would have gladly performed the ceremony) Video was that important to them.
Camera placement and movement are up to the officiant and frankly I've found MOST Catholic churches and priests to be more open than some other religions. Not all but most. Especially the younger priests. More in tune I suppose. As for moving around during the ceremony again I can only speak of the many many many churches I've been in in my area but most kinda frown upon it. IF you do move it has to be small and non invasive-they don't want people looking at you vs the B&G nor do they want anyone detracting from the ceremony and I can understand that. HOWEVER there are places and time you can move andbe fine. Move down the side aisle when the guests are standing for prayer. I've moved up the center aisle when they are doing that to get the couple giving the flowers to the mothers but it's slow movment. Most people don't even notice. I've shot in places where the officiant says 'hey, if you stand here up front it's a grat shot' and others that have said you can be anywhere just don't get between me and the couple and don't put the camera in my face. OK no problem. Moving around doesn't necessarily give you the best shot, but a 2nd camera on the altar and 1 in the balconey can really help cover some moves and give you something besides the back of their heads. It's a lot of common sense and logic and talking to the officiant or co-ordinator at the venue. Of course it helps when you shoot in the same place 5 or 6 times a year for say about 10 years. They get to know you and know that you will not do anything to purposly detract from the sancticy of the ceremony. After all it is still a religious ceremony.
Anyway that's my look at it YMMV!
OH YEAH!!! Mics. I put a lav on the groom another on the lectern and use a shotgun on my 2nd camera and a hypercaroid on my primary camera. So far I've been blessed with really good audio using that setup BUT it is subject to modification if it's an outdoor ceremony or in a banquet facility or hotelt depending on haw the music and officiants mic are set up. If it's thru a DJs sound board I do things a bit differently. but it all comes out in the wash. Good audio.
Don

Nice point Don. In Toronto though I find Catholic priest to be stricter than other denominations, I even shot a wedding in my Parish Church and the priest who I know personally, gave me the usual limitations, stay left or right and don't step on the Altar. I make it a point to speak with the priest with the groom present so he knows the limitation and what to expect. A second unmanned camera in the altar would help but then again it is up to the priest.

My goal is to get the best footage possible while being as invisible as possible. The location really helps determine how this works out. Churches tend to be pretty restrictive, but outdoor weddings (most of what I tend to draw) are much more lenient. We have a church in our area that nearly blacklisted me for "leaning" out into the aisle as the bride entered. Later, for another wedding, I was reminded not to "lean".

I can understand not wanting video guys running around drawing all sorts of attention, but when "leaning" to get a shot (which otherwise ends up being a shot of the backs of people's heads) is a problem, I have a problem with that.

Funny they don't allow us to do that but a guest can practically step on the middle of the aisle during the march and block your view without any reprimands.

Exactly. Annoying isn't it?

Really annoying, you are practically helpless when they do that.

I had a client that didn't necessarily want a "Hollywood style" video, but rather the bride's mother was legally blind. While the mom was in the front row, she really couldn't see anything clearly. The bride wanted me to capture the ceremony in as much detail as possible so her mom could later watch it by sitting right in front of the television. We actually did shoot on a tripod over the minister's shoulder.

Interesting! I hadn't thought of accessibility issues. That could truly be a lifesaver for someone who is nearly blind or even very hard of hearing.

Maybe I have different sensibilities, but I don't think having a camera anywhere would bother me in my wedding in the least. Nor would I get married in a place that got uptight about it. Not casting aspersions on others, just giving my opinion.

But it sounds as if it's pretty hit or miss what you can get away with. I noticed that you guys have said you lav the groom. No one has mentioned the bride, so am I to assume that micing the groom is enough for you to pick up the vows and such from the bride cleanly?

This stuff is all very fascinating to me.

in almost every case the grooms mic will get the bride unless she whispers. It will also get the officiant when he stands within a couple of feet of them to do the vows.
Anumber of years ago Idid mic the groom, the bride (her insistance-she was breaking into broadcast news) and the officiant as well as the lectern and even set 2 shotguns by the musicians. Yes I had someone I knew running the mixer but frankly it really wasn't all that much better than what Ido now.
BTW, placing the mic on the bride was a bit of a challenge but she knew what she was getting into and appearently didn't mind me coming in while she stood in her, ahem, undergarments,to place the the body pak and run the mic up thru her bra. The bodypak was fastened to her panties. Thank goodness she wasn't wearing a thong ;-)


Don

I have always had the thought of why can the guests be there but I can't? I'm about ready to go in early set up 2 cameras 1 with the audio and then sit in the pews with my little handycam as a guest. As a guest I can probably get away with more "leaning".
Problem is I'm pretty well known to a lot of churches in the area and they'd blow my cover:-)

Don

So far weve always filmed with one camera on a tripod and one Steadicam, however steadicam footage of the ceremony just doesnt work. Its not a steadicam moment so wil lbe doing all tripod this weekend. No one seems to mind but thats because we were being slow in our movements which si why the steadicam didnt work.

Mic on the groom, captures everything if you have omni directional. Shotgun mic for everything else.

Church of England ceremonys are always REALLY restrictive. No movement, no photos, no noises, no flash from the togs and generally there soooo small you can never get in front of the couple and end up with side and back shots. This weekend may change all that as the groom is an ex-videographer and has planned the day to a T.

We always tell them that the ceremony is not guranteed and we will do what we can with what we get but most just want you there to film the words anyway so audio is a must. We could go handheld and try to blend in but were there with larger cameras with shoe mounted wireless recievers along with all the other gear so we stick out, why not go the whole hog and go steadicam as well.

I had the best experience EVER this weekend.
The couple had a minister from another country flown in, he was super great. The church was T shaped, and a balcony right above the entrace.

So I was alowed unmanned camera on the balcony (where the solist singer was standing, she was super nice), I had my assistant sit to the right 'wing' of the T with a static locked down camera that got a good view of the bride. With my manned camera I was first at the altar, then ran to the back and placed camera on tripod, and during the hymns I ran around right and left sides to capture audience, bride/groom from different angles etc. For mics I had one wireless on the groom, and one on the floor close to the minister.

The final results looks like it is shot with cameras all over the church. Very cool :)

My only problem is that I had a total of 8 minutes to setup the cameras and mics (the couple before realy pushed the limits of time), so I didnt get to whitebalance the cameras, resulting in too far away colours. I might ask for some help in what do do with that, as Im not that good with correcting :(

Besides from being utterly stressed by having 8 mins to mic the groom, altar, placing 3 cameras on tripods while guests walking in, it was a fun experience.

I might also add that I was hired for cermony only, then when I got back home (40 min drive), put kid to sleep I got called by the planners. The bride wanted more video !

So I drove back and taped the reception 'on the fly'. At first dance and cake it was so dark I just had to say 'ok, I need to put on some light here', and turned on on harsh cam 10w light :) It doesnt give the best results, harsh shadows etc, but I got the shots. And noone seemed to be troubled by it. Many even gave some hefty solo dance when the 'spotlight' was onm them :)

Great couple, great evning, just too bad about the color thing

When weve had the WB way off i have yet been able to get it back to how it should be. The colours we wanted simply wernt there. So needed to get a little arty and do some deliberate colour messing. If I dont get a chance to WB with the missus and a piece of paper I just use the brides dress. Better than auto.

Hi Perrone. The happiest thank you messages I've had from the b & g after watching their wedding film always include the words, '...and we didn't even notice you were there'.

I find this quite amazing as I'm everywhere, all the time, non-stop. But of course on their special day they're excited, jubilant, engrossed, and I'm really just a service provider.

So I stick to tripods and long telephotos for as much as I possibly can. I intersperse it with lots of moving wide angle shots as well of course, but back onto the tripod and pick them off from afar is the technique that earns me the most praise.

tom.

Oh, I never use Auto, in times like this I set to predef settings. I'm rendering a version now where I put on 'angelic' filter on the entire cermony, if it works I'll just leave it at that.

The WB is not 'wrong', it is just different. It is more 'warm' and 'reddish' on 2 of the cams than the 3'd, witch is more 'cold' and 'natural'. I tried put the red pedestal down a bit on the 2, and up a bit on the 'odd cam', but didnt look much better.

All in all, I don't think it is very big issue, but I like to do things as perfect as I can.

My goal is to get the best footage possible while being as invisible as possible. The location really helps determine how this works out.

Hi Perrone. The happiest thank you messages I've had from the b & g after watching their wedding film always include the words, '...and we didn't even notice you were there'.


Quote A: What we strive to achive.
Quote B: The words that we strive to here

We try to be as unintrusive as possible but still get the shots that are an absolute
must have, and that is typicially what I tell our prospective clients up front. We will
only be In you face if it is absolutely necessary to get the shot we need and if at any
time you are uncomfortable with our presence then PLEASE Please let us know and we will
Back off if it's possible.

Imo, we should not be intrusive at all, how can that be achieved?

First of all I believe we should consult with the priest of what he thinks is
appropriate in a way of video coverage at a particular church, through years
I've noticed difference of opinions of what an how can be taped, some priests object on camera lights, some do not like tripod, some give a guide line of what is possible to do, interesting that second time around with the same priest things happen easier.

Overallwe have great understanding from the priests here, in Russia, the country from being communist has changed dramatically in the last 20 years.
Biggest religious events around Christmas time are shown on prime time TV,
shot with many cameras, so overall the situation is favorable.

I like to shoot church events two cameras with longer optics. Good thing, in Russian Orthodox Church everyone stand during the whole ceremony, that takes about 45 minutes, so there is a way to move quetly around, finding best spots for coverage.

I have a problem with the term "intrusive". If you've talked to the bride and groom about where you can be and you've cleared things with the officiant then how can anything you do at that point assuming you're staying within their guidelines be considered intrusive?

My personal theory is that I'm getting paid to cover the event with a certain style and whatever I have to do to get the type of shots I'm being paid to get is what I'll do. If that requires me moving around a bit in the ceremony then so be it. I'm not dropping in from the ceiling nor am I popping up from behind the officiant. I don't understand why people are afraid of moving around a bit, the photographers do it all the time.

Mics: I put a lav on the officiant. This picks up the officiant, the bride and the groom. Am I the only one doing that? I used to put one on the officiant and the groom. I don't bother with that any more since (in most cases) over 90% of audio is coming from the officiant.

For cam placement I generally have one cam locked down with a WS of the entire scene. One cam shooting down the isle that generally gets a MS (3 shot) of the officiant and couple. The I have a third cam that get's mostly close-ups.

I'm always looking for input/advice on how to improve.

-Don B.

I love do weddings!
I do what I promise to the bride and groom , I shoot the video the way I'd like to see it on the screen and I do whatever it takes to get it done.
I don't care to be invisible, I tell people to move out of the shot, I physically pull people out my frame if they are on my way (99% understand that, and saying "I'm sorry" just moving )
I always get the looks from the priests when I'm running around the church with the pilot , and couple times I've been told to "behave accordingly", but I don't care,
the only thing I care is to get the best shots I can, because at the end of the day, when they watch the video, nobody will say:" look at this stupid guy, he stepped right in the middle when we were dancing", they say:" that video guy is stupid, look what he is filming"
and believe it or not, every second wedding I get :"we didn't even noticed you"

Here whenever the priest speaks I remain on a fixed position (tripod)on the left or right side of the altar so I can get a clear shot of the couple, the priest or the guests. Only when they play music I move around to get my creative shots or to get some other cameraviews in the church. In general you can say priests don't like it when you move around here when they speak and I have seen them stop the ceremony because of photogs that were too "visible". Getting behind them during the ceremony is out of the question, only with the rings you are allowed to come up real close or when they light the candle or sign the register but as long as they are performing the ceremony and speaking you have to remain on your place. Also photogs usually just come up quick for a shot and sit down on a chair right after that and they also use the time when music is played to take more photo's.

I do whatever I have to, to get the shot I need. I take great care not to film my 2-3rd cameras. I act respectfully, the more professional you become the better you get at filming the shot from a strategic location.

In general the bride and groom rarely remember details of their own wedding day and all they do remember is what I give them, this is a powerful tool, so by keeping my cameras out of the shots they never remember I was there to begin with. Most wedding aren't very romantic, the product I deliver makes them believe it was magical :P

A good line Nicholas, and one that more wedding filmmakers should take to heart.