Well, first of all, anything is going to look better if you just move closer rather than use your camera's zoom. A good rule of thumb that I use is 'zoom with your feet'. In other words, whenever possible, just get closer to your subject. Your footage will always look better.

Regarding the zoom/focus trick, I'm not certain of the physics behind it, I just have learned that if I zoom in on something on the stage (especially if it is somewhat behind where the action will be), and then switch to manual focus and adjust so that the image is in full focus, then I'm set. I can zoom back out and for the rest of the shoot, as long as I don't move the camera, I can zoom in or out from that position and leave the camera on manual focus, and not have to adjust the focus at all. Everything will stay in focus.

Hope that makes more sense.

Keep in mind this is not a trick you can use when your camera position, or the position of the action, or both, is moving. You'll have to go with auto-focus or get real good with the manual focus for something like that.

<<<-- Originally posted by Travis Cossel :

I just have learned that if I zoom in on something on the stage (especially if it is somewhat behind where the action will be), and then switch to manual focus and adjust so that the image is in full focus, then I'm set. I can zoom back out and for the rest of the shoot, as long as I don't move the camera, I can zoom in or out from that position and leave the camera on manual focus, and not have to adjust the focus at all. Everything will stay in focus. -->>>

Thanks!

I'll try it.

I find it easier to just using auto if I plan on doung a lot of zooming in/out for effect, especially during reception/dance scenes.

Oh, I agree, for situations where I'm moving with the camera, the GL2 auto-focus works just great. However, when I know my camera isn't going anywhere, and the action isn't changing locations, especially in high-contrast lighting situations, I'll use manual focus. This eliminates any chance that the camera will have to 'search' for proper focus, a problem that can occur with high-contrast lighting situations (like stage performances).

I do as much as the bride and groom permit me to get away with. I use my own lighting at the ceremony; this is a must, even if I have to buy some stand alone lights from the Home Depot. The guests aren't paying for the wedding. To have poor lighting in your video is something that is very hard to correct in post. I care more about it than audio; generally the offociating minister in most of my weddings is at a mike stand anyway speaking thru a PA system. If necessary I can also buy a wired battery powered mini mike from the Radio Shack and plug it directly into the GL2, pinning it to the arch. I always use a good set of Sony headphones to check audio though.

Bill wrote:
"I use my own lighting at the ceremony; this is a must, even if I have to buy some stand alone lights from the Home Depot. "

Home Depot lights at a wedding ceremony??? I've got to say that I'm baffled why you have to go to such extremes. We use two GL2s at all ceremonies and would never consider ruining the ambiance with lights. I can't believe you even find couples or churches that would allow that practice.

Other readers on this forum new to the wedding industry should'nt think they have to run to Home Depot before their next wedding.

Also, you should place a higher regard on your audio than you currently do. People can watch a low quality video but try listening to poor audio. It sounds like you don't even use a wireless mic. If so, do your paying customers a favor and invest in a good audio system.

Ambiance lasts an hour in the ceremony; the DVD video should last a lifetime. I am only offering an el cheapo solution as an alternative to bad lighting. I have been in churches where ambiance isn't the word; the lighting is so bad you might have trouble reading your bible. Best to be prepared with a Home Depot backup than have no light at all.

Again, a wired electret mike is a really cheap $20 solution if you cannot afford a wireless. It just plain works and gives very reasonable audio.

And I have used additional lighting in all of my weddings. The bride and groom have never complained during the ceremony and have been well pleased with the video. My only regret is that sometimes I do not use enough aditional lighting....

Bill,

I'm curious to know what you're shooting with.

I'm with Bob. I'm shocked that you would bring lighting to a wedding, especially "Home Depot construction lighting". I'm assuming you're on a GL2 since you're posting in this forum. If so, I can't imagine a church so dark that you'd HAVE to have lighting in order to get good video. There are plenty of ways to get more light into your GL2 without resorting to shining lights at a ceremony.

Also, I know you think you have the best interest of the bride and groom in mind, but you seem to have a casual attitude about the ambiance of the most important day of their life. The object of a videographer is to captures those moments in the least obtrusive way possible. Remember, this is THEIR wedding day, not YOUR wedding shoot. I'd be interested to know how many of those couples were happy with having construction lights beaming during their ceremony. Most of the couples I work with would simply pass out if they thought I was going to set up lights during their ceremony.

Also, Bob may have misunderstood you on the audio topic. I'm assuming you aren't as concerned about audio because you generally tape weddings were the audio is carried through a PA system. I hope that's correct, because audio is definately very important. Some of the worst wedding videos I've seen were bad just because the audio sucked so bad.

I have a single chip JVC F-11, a JVC F-10 and a GL2 as the main cam with a wide angle lens. During the ceremony processional I have been known to go mobile with the main cam. Keeping it on the tripod with the legs shortened but distended and grabbing the tripod at the extended neck with the cam attached provides excellent stability with the added built in optical stability of the GL2 operating. I usually station myself at the end of the main aisle and go from there. Since most of us know the photographer gets away with in your face shots even when its time for the bride and father enter. Many times he even stops them to get a shot, standing directly before them before they begin. Everyone approves of this at least in the baptist churches where I have done weddings. I try to be as descreet as possible but believe you me I will get the shot. I may even walk backward ahead of the father and bride as they proceed down the aile in my upcomming rehearsal. Naturally all of these things must be discussed before the wedding. The bride and groom must decide which is more important to them; broadcast quality from good lighting or a half hour of ambiance. My customers choose the lighting 10 out of 10. The result is a TV quality DVD instead of a muddy colored home movie. I can't see how anyone could disagree with the logic in my lighting ideas unless they are just not bold to make waves for a good wedding video.

Well, I can't speak for the JVC cameras, but I guarantee that the GL2 (unless your wedding is in a cave) can produce great video quality without a bunch of Home Depot lighting. Still, if your clients are happy, more power to you.

I film only high-end weddings (full-day shoots, 3 cameras, the works), and my clients are all very particular. They want the best video possible while retaining the sanctity and mood of the event. So, I delve into the manual features of my GL2's and leave the lighting at the office.

Nevertheless I can and will post some video frames of some of the weddings I have done as soon as my Powerbook returns from the service center, which should be today or tomorrow. I am stunned to hear everyone is afraid to talk it over with the Bride and groom about lighting. In my opinion lightin ALWAYS helps and I NEVER leave for a wedding without it. I am really surprised no one thinks the same way. My pro Smith Victor light with stands have a halogen bulb; same as the Home Depot jobs. My opinion there is no difference with light quality there. UNBELIEVABLE...

Bill,

My experience hasn't been that I'm "afraid" to talk to the client about lights, but instead I strive to capture the the setting as they define it, not as I could light it. I'm sure in years past when low light performance was significantly worse, lights may have been a worthy discussion point but with todays gear, I can't see it (bad pun).

Additionally, setting up and tearing down what I'm guessing is mulitple lights would take valuable time away from shooting following the ceremony. If the reception follows shortly after, I'm usually working hard to to stay one step ahead of the crowds.

I'm anxious to see your frame grabs. Any chance you could post one with and without the additional lights so we can see what your working against?

I'm with Rob. If my couple wants to have their ceremony in a barn with candlelight, then I'm not even going to think about suggesting I bring light kits in to light up the place. It's about capturing the moments as they are. I'm not afraid to ask my couple about bringing lights. I just choose to make camera adjustments instead, and leave their ceremony as they planned it.

I'm not arguing that lights wouldn't make the video quality better, but there's a fine line between making sure you get the best video quality and making sure you preserve the mood of a couple's wedding day.

Bill,

I'ts not a matter of discussing it (ceremony lights) with the B&G...it's just out of the question in my neck of the woods. I was reminded once that it's a Wedding first and video second. They're not having a ceremony to shoot a movie.

With regard to the GL2, even if the church is dim, as long as you're close enough to the altar, you should get a good image with gain no more than 12dB. BTW, I assume you're going full manual with the GL2.

If you're just putting a mic on the PA system, are the B&G using church micophones for the vows? Maybe that's a regional thing that I'm not familiar with. However, a wireless on the groom will greatly enhance the quality of your audio.

Bob

I see the "afraid" word was a bad choice in your case, but still I cannot change my opinion. If your customers are happy with merely a good image then fine. Mine want the best. I let the couple know additional lighting usually always helps and in my experience it is VERY rare where the church is so well equipped. If they want ambiance then fine; although that choice has never happened. I will try to get those frame grabs up soon, but saturday I will be doing my couples video interviews (with plenty of added light). By a wired mike I mean a mike that looks like a lapel mike but can be clipped discreetly to the arch. The audio is good. It is not plugged into the PA system; just the GL2. I am getting off the job now early as I am anxious to see if Apple has repaired the 17" screen on my laptop to my satisfaction. Besides, I really miss using it. Talk to you guys later. Good weekend to you.

Wow, it's really amazing how different our situations are. Where are you located?

Located in Hollywood, Florida. But I think it is more than just location. My customers are mostly black pentacostal or baptist. They are quite liberal, unique and creative in many of the weddings I have attended. They don't mind trying things untraditional. I count myself very fortunate, as such people also are quick to grant me things even I would be a little bashful in asking. I have more than once suggested that just before the ceremony the groom should pretend to get cold feet and try to back out of the wedding. It was so funny to put the cold feet scene into the actual wedding footage. So you see usually I am free to do what I ask and have great fun editing the whole thing. I have no helpers. An unexperienced novice usually has a tendency to touch and disturb the cam or zoom when not necessary.

My laptop has returned and so far so good!

Well that makes more sense. In a dark setting, darker skin color is also more of a problem. And it helps that your clients are more liberal in what they want. My clients are generally more reserved and want a classic feel to their wedding AND video. But I still surprise them and do some fun stuff.

You are right about the darker skin tones, which I forgot to mention. Many of these churches have white walls which makes the situation much worse unless there is some additional lighting. Although I have not posted any wedding shots yet, here is my website incase you are interested. I have some shots of GL2 frames even at dawn here. My main video interest these days is parades. So much fun to do them.

http://homepage.mac.com/bhardy3/PhotoAlbum8.html

I checked out your site. I have a brand new question for you now. When you film weddings, are you using normal or frame mode?

When filming anything I use frame mode. I hear normal may have better resolution. Not sure how true that is, but I have not been able detect any considerable difference in sharpness, especially when transferred to DVD. I stick with frame mode because it looks more movie like in my opinion. There is also less aliasing, definitely, in my opinion, during movement, on my LCD display.

Okay. Just curious. I'm switching to frame mode this year probably. I honestly don't see much difference, but I'm hoping that frame mode might compress for DVD better.

Bill,

I think I understand your situation better. We're in the Boston area where clientele and customs are perhaps more traditional. If your brides and their families don't mind the lights then it's their nickel.

Bob

<<<-- Originally posted by Travis Cossel : Wow, it's really amazing how different our situations are. Where are you located? -->>>

Wow it's funny how this thread has changed in the last 2 weeks, I was one of the first members to post into it and now we're talking about GL2 Church Lighting.

Let me give my 2 cents worth cause I have an interesting point of view on this. I shoot video and would never hesitate to light up a room, including a wedding.

Last year I got married and hired a very good friend to shoot it for me with the understanding that I would do all the edit work. He used a GL2 and and XL1s and the lighting conditions were good for an indoor cathedral in the afternoon.

He shot in auto mode on both cameras and rode the exposure lock on the XL when needed. I reviewed the tapes in my GL2 and watched the settings that the camera recorded very carefully. Gain in particular was never higher than 12db, however it did seem to hover there.

Now, if the question of lighting would have come up, which it did not, I would have very quickly stated YES DO WHAT YOU NEED.

There was an interesting comment here that said, "Ambience lasts 1 hour and a DVD lasts forever!" That is something that I'll borrow with permission for all my future customers.

About 3 weeks ago I turned down a gig to shoot a wedding cause the customer wanted "ambience" to the level of candle light in a dimly lit room. That's great for her but don't hold my hand to the fire when it looks like crap. I warned her against it, told her I'm sorry but I can't do the gig and someone in her family shot it with a consumer single chip. I'm sure that now she's saying to herself, WOW I MADE A MISTAKE!

The bottom line, my wife would not have minded, I would not have minded, when I shot a wedding last year, they didn't mind, just keep it within reason. If you start to break out a lighting tree of Par 64's, I think that it may be a little unreasonable.

I would prefer to light up a room with uniform lighting, make it even and make it nice, not just hit it with my 100watt NRG Varalux and hope that I can throw some light on the back wall of the church when the bride comes out, oh some 100' away!

One last comment, do you think that the couples on "Wedding Story" and the other shows that do similar complain about the amount of lighting that they request to use for their productions? I hardly think so. (Might be wrong, but I hardly think so.)

Miguel
Orlando- Florida

re Chris wright
 

Re the wedding. I read all the advice given, and am a little perplexed. sure, im sure its all good professional advice, but as you said you dont have a lot of cash. Besides, im wondering, have i ever seen a wedding where the video photographer had lighting and mics everywhere??! Unless your filming a wedding to be broadcast on TV i dare say you want to be as low profile and out of the way as possible. You have 2 cracking cameras. Be sure to wite ballance them both at beginning of service. Good tripods as previously suggested. Lighting... i filmed a wedding at a church, and it was a cloudy day, but the standard interior lights were fine after i white ballanced.
Audi0... why worry. If you have a bit cash, then by yourself a stenheiser, yes, fab, wish i had one.
Alternatively, or aswell as, get a stereo mic and minidisc recorder. Position it on a mic stand somewhere near the bride and groom, and record. The mini disk will give superior sound quality, and a cheapish stereo mic i have produces good results.
Have your front camera film some shots of the bride and grooms parents at emotional times of the wedding. Get a close up shot of the ring going on the finger. And as the bloke said before, try ad get on the side of the brides face as opposed to grooms. Make sure the fella on the other camera, positioned at the back, gets all the safe shots. So whilst youre getting all the fancy stuff on the front camera you always have a simple wide shot to fall back on. Although get him to zoom in slowly and closely at key times, like vows, where you might want to be moving your camera about. Yea, as someone said before too, go to the rehersal, and make sure you know whats happening. You maybee want the rear camera man to wait at the backwhen the bride comes down the isle, or be waiting outside to get a shot of the confetti being thrown. Same as you might want him to catch her turning up in the car, as you awate at the front, capturing all the expectant faces of the audience, the nervous groom and them all turning round to look for her.
Finally, at the end, get loads of cutaways. That is, nice long shots, of say, a candle. Or a stained class window. Or the organist playing the keyboard. These can be blended in during the editing process, and look great.

Yeah, cutaways are great. I generally try to pick up cutaways at the rehearsal, and on the day of (before the ceremony). After the ceremony I'm usually too busy following the action, as are my other cameramen.

mig can i see a pic of your rig

gl2?

thank, this post rocks

hey everyone...
I have another wedding coming up this saturday, so I figured I'd revive this thread :)

I have, for the most part, the same equipment that I had at the last wedding. This time I have managed to borrow two wired lav mics, though since they are not wireless I'm not sure how much good they'll do. Anyway, I'm sure I will have more specific questions as the wedding day approaches, but first I wanted to ask for some tips on shooting a bride/groom interview, which I will be doing tomorrow.

I will be shooting with both GL2s, and have both the bride and groom miked, with each mic running to its own camera, so that I will have total control over the audio in post. Since it will be extremely hot tomorrow, we will probably be forced to shoot inside, but I've come up with a decent backdrop.

The main problem I'm having is coming up with interview questions. I want to ask as many questions as possible so that I have plenty of options to edit with later. Here are the questions I've come up with so far:

1. Describe, in detail, the day you met. When, where, and how did you meet?
2. Describe your first date. where did you go? What did you do?
3. When you first introduced each other to your parents, what did they think?
4. What are your favorite and least favorite attributes of each other?
5. Over the years that you have been dating, what has been your most memorable experience together?
6. When did you know that you were in love?
7. Describe how he proposed
8. What do you think your future holds?

of note, some of these were taken from or inspired by Rob Wilson's reply to my other post at:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29989&highlight=wedding+interview+questions

If anyone could throw out any more suggestions for good bride/groom interview questions, I'd greatly appreciate it!

Thanks,
Chris