Client can't afford wedding.
 

Wedding videography is not my full time job, however I've been taping weddings for about 5 years now. Probably like some others out there, jobs aren't coming in as much this summer as years past. Although my prices are lower than most in town, I've begun receiving more feedback that the B&G's budget doesn't allow for a wedding video. What are your thoughts on counter-offering with a lower price, or extending a promotional discount for these cases? If you're doing that already, do you have the promo price across the board, indefinitely until the economy picks back up, for a certain amount of time, or how do you handle that? I hate to drop my prices, but right now any jobs are definitely appreciated!

if your price is lower than others already, then there is no good reason to lower your price.

get a really nice demo and post it on your website. post it on your facebook. get people to see it and comment on it. send them to your friends and family ask them to forward it to their friends and family. drop some on venue places.. special offer for limited time only kinda stuff e.g. free slideshow free prewedding interview etc etc..

just stuff that came up on top of my head but you get the idea..

Santo

I'd keep your prices where they are unless you're in real trouble of not generating enough income to continue in the business.

I don't see a problem with adjusting your price a little for a client who seems like they really can't afford you IF you really need the work. If you weren't in a tough spot with bookings I'd say just let the client go, someone else will take their place especially if the date is more than 6 months out, but given your situation why not? 20% less that what you usually make is better than nothing.

While you have some down time how about going out and trying to drum up some non-wedding work? If weddings in your area are down a bit it might be more helpful to spend some time exploring other types of business rather than continuing to pump the same dried up well.

That's really a decision for you to make. On the one hand it may help drum up business & referrals, but on the other hand you'll be doing the same amount of work, same lengthy hours, for less pay. It may burn you out & you may think the business isn't all that worth your while because your profits have basically been shaved down.

Just be sure if/when you give the discounts to ask they don't mention specific $$'s amounts when speaking with friends & family. You wouldn't want a referral to call you later saying "But you charged them this much for it".


Just mho.

Michael,

If you've been doing this for 5 years, then you should be pretty decent at it. Assuming you are like most of us who have many thousands invested in gear.

You should get a lot of feedback on this topic.

I shoot others things as well and Weddings by far and away pay the least for the amount of work and gear required. I'm a little bit different in that while I've been shooting for years, I only recently started shooting weddings seriously in the past year. In fact, I previously went way out of my way to avoid them. Now I have embraced them and love the challenge.

I think that by undercutting yourself, you will only hurt yourself. That being said, if you really need the cash, and there are no other shooting jobs around, then you may have to.

I recently did a wedding for considerably less than I'd normally charge because I didn't cover the reception, so I was only on site for 4 hours, but still it was a lot of work. But they couldn't afford more - Why? because they'd already booked a photog for 3k. They were a very nice couple and I now have some more demo reel footage. My point is, there's money out there, it's just not spilling out of peoples pockets like it was in the last few years. Videography is not at the top of priority lists for most couples.

It's our job as a professional group to continue to produce high quality work to raise the level of the art form.

I believe there is still a negative stigma to 'wedding videography', that many in this forum have been breaking for awhile now. It's this continued work that will eventually raise 'wedding cinematography' above photography. It's after seeing a lot of this excellent work that drove me to embrace the challenge of producing 'Love stories on film'.

There are some people who seem to have something stamped on their forehead that invite people to try this line on them. If you radiate something that comes across to people that you are too eager / desperate or too young / naive, people are going to foist the "poor boy" pitch on you. If this is consistently happening to you, you may not want to blame it on the economy but on your sales style or lack of it. You may want to consider investing in a good sales technique book and study and apply some selling approaches that counter the "I don't have enough money" tactic.

It's important not only for you but all of us because every time some joker with a camera drops his price, it tends to set a price "standard" for those that follow.

I'm both a father and a videographer. I've had one kid get married and another getting married this January. There's no way we could afford to budget in a videographer. I suppose if the kids wanted to they could pay for it themselves, but as the father of the bride, it just wouldn't happen.

Fortunately, I have all the gear and a few camera operators that owe me favors. So they will shoot the wedding and I'll edit later (much later - I'm still sitting on the tapes from the first wedding 2.5 years ago!)

You are still paying for it because the favors that you are calling have value. Your equipment and time have value as well. This is quite different from someone dropping their price because someone isn't willing to pay a reasonable amount. If you are negotiating to buy something and want a lower price, one tactic is to say you don't have the money rather than you don't want to pay it. This works better because it is more absolute. If you convince someone who is trying to sell you something that you only have $X, and let the silence weigh heavy, they will be motivated to accept it because they want the sale. But if one recognizes the tactic for what it is, there are some effective sales tactics to counter this that can be learned. There is more to the BUSINESS than the camera techno-blather.

Thanks for all the feedback so far.

A friend suggested perhaps instead of offering a 3-camera package, counter-offer with a 1 or 2 camera package for a lower amount. I would personally only feel comfortable filming a 1 camera ceremony if I still had a B camera at a tripod at the least, and maybe just use this footage to fill in any cracks.

My base package currently only offers a 3 camera package, so perhaps this is a limitation of my business-side of things. But this offer would allow me to decrease the price while also decreasing the amount of work. Seems like that might be a fair trade off.

A couple observations -

First, how far out are these weddings? I wouldn't drop rates too much now for something a few months out, things change and you don't want to book dates you may be able to book later at full rates. Conversely, if it's "short notice" and cash on the barrelhead on a day you're not booked, a sale is a sale.

Some couples don't plan ahead too much, and often times seem to realize they want a specific service/vendor after they've hit the budget wall, but STILL want to see if they can make it happen... You take a risk working with them as they may not be able to come up with even a reduced rate, or you may need a "payment plan", but again, a sale is a sale and making something is better than watching the grass grow. Just get enough up front to cover your hard costs and time, wait to edit until the remaining $ show up.

It's rediculous to ignore the economy, and while I'm sure there are those who haven't seen as much of a business downturn, you can't turn the TV on or read a magazine or newspaper and say things haven't changed - your customers are feeling the pinch, and are probably well aware you are too. While not everything is available at a discount, there's a lot of "dealing" going on out there to keep commerce from coming to a dead halt. This is not a time when anyone expects to pay full price for ANYTHING...

I think you have a good idea with cutting one camera from your low package, "1 camera" to me means a MINIMUM of one manned cam and one tripod as a safety. This is a case of 1+1=1... You can always set up the other (3rd) camera as a "bonus" even if you never use it in final edit, for peace of mind - an extra tape is cheap. By reducing the perceived "service" rather than just discounting, you avoid undercutting yourself both now and down the road.

You already describe yourself as "lower than most" rate wise, don't think it's a good idea to shoot for the bottom of the heap, aiming low is hard on the toes... better to re-evaluate your packages, and if needed offer a "last minute shopper bargain package", only if the date's available type deal - hotels and airlines do this all the time, to fill seats and rooms.

It's a bit different for a "one man band" as you have to balance making a "healthy" return vs. making something vs. not working at all. You can only work one wedding at a time, and if you book it for less, you should have a very good reason for doing so, and ramp up your marketing so you don't have to do it too often... whatever the economy.

Michael... I'm one of those guys who is in your shoes....

I just recently had a Bride contact me with interest in having me film the wedding. She said that I came recommended and liked my work. But she didn't have the budget for a wedding video.
I wrote her back with a good discount off of my normal price. She was very grateful and said that she would have to talk about it with her fiance.
After a few days she wrote back and said that they just couldn't do it and that she would still recommend me to her friends.
I googled her email address and read some post on some forum boards that she wrote and saw that her story was genuine.
I contacted her back and we agreed on a price that others would laugh at. But the truth is that money is does not motivate me (at least not now). The opportunity to film a beautiful day and to please is a bigger pleasure then the check it self.
Of course it didn't hurt that she had planed a wedding that happened to be what I was waiting for. A beautiful old church with a vintage theme surrounding the days events.
So... what motivates you should be the answer to your problems.

Steve

boggles my mind that majority of couples are willing to pay $3000 -$5000 for photographers (and still having to buy your own pictures) and not consider even half of that for a wedding film....video is the first to be cut in a tight budget and last to be considered even with a budget...any theories? They always think Uncle this and cousin that can film the wedding.. so sometimes i just advise them to maybe consider just getting a relative to photograph the wedding and save lots of money !! they always have that look of "what are you talking about" hahahaha !!

I have a somewhat unique perspective on what's being discussed here, since I am both a seasoned pro and a newbie. I have been doing corporate and broadcast video for years as an employee - and now am just learning with wedding videography. I will (and yes, I'm embarrassed to) say that I was very ignorant of the wedding videography business that exists now before I started researching it. I had no idea of the kind of production value that is now being offered. I was very surprised, and really, really excited as a result of finding out.

I think this industry does suffer from a lack of awareness from the general public about what we do, and how high the bar has been raised. Most people still think it's Uncle Joe in the corner with his camcorder. I had a bit of that prejudice myself before I got a clue, and I do video for a living - so I can't imagine most average people know much more. Even just two years ago my daughter hired a photog/videographer combo to do her wedding and they were horrible, and the video was very much the stereotypical bad wedding video. People like that don't do this business any favors. Also, the photographer market is very mature - and it's not only accepted for weddings, it's considered mandatory. I think this industry will eventually get there too - it's just going to take time.

It's also going to take the public time to flush the old image of cheesy 80's & 90's wedding videos and horrible graphics and transitions from the collective consciousness and realize that most videographers now are very committed to providing a very high-quality product that rivals most broadcast quality work. The public has to see the value in what we do, and they will. Every time any of us do a great shoot/edit for a satisfied B&G you are sowing seeds and they will grow.

You hit the nail right on the head... I wish bridal magazines and others like it would notice the work that comes from the members on this board. I think the public would be blown away.... That way they wouldn't have to write so many articles about how its best to skip the video to save money.

Bill, I also agree with your observation. I believe when you sort out what an individual can do to deal with the lack of understanding that many have, the best way to educate on the one to one level (you and your prospective client) is to have a REALLY good demo DVD to hand out. Nothing beats seeing a good example of your craft. People will instantly recognize the difference between a really professional piece and an "Uncle Charlie" video. In the grand scheme of things, really good wedding videos are a recent thing. Photography has been around for a long time and people have a better understanding about what to expect.

My advice for the OP is something I offer to clients who 'love the work' but don't have the means. If they are not passionate or excited (or even knowledgeable) about your offerings from anyone else, then they are just kicking the tires--feel free to refer them to a lower priced competitor whose work you have seen and judged to be competent/comparable. Whatever you do, try not to send them into the arms of a Craigslist newbie or starving film-student who put out a substandard product that will haunt our industry for many years to come.

I offer to capture the footage, and present them with an unedited (or deferred-edit) product on DVD. When you start with great raw material, you have much more flexibility to give them a wonderful finished product down the line (when money is looser). As an incentive, offer them a discount if they edit within one year. After a pre-determined length of time (when you figure they have forgone editing entirely), you can sell the master tapes and recoup a bit more of your time investment.

Here's the big catch. They must be EDUCATED by you as to what they will receive. If most of your work is out of focus, poorly color balanced, with distorted audio (please tell me this doesn't describe your work), the client will be unhappy no-matter how low the price. I always tell them that there will be some bobbles, false starts, or the occasional shot that runs long while nothing is happening (like waiting for a grand entrance). The audio will be unmixed---but legible and clear. There will be NO transitions, titles, or music beds. Its called RAW for a reason. But if it saves them 2/3 of the price (or whatever you deem proper), it might just allow them to have a good quality recording of the day done with professional equipment which can be turned into a beautiful movie down the line.

I started offering this sort of package this year and had one taker immediately. I have one for the no-edit next year. Since this package is only $800 it is more obtainable for the couple that overstepped the flowers or catering (why oh why is catering the single biggest ticket on a budget and the cause of problems???? it is just going down the toilet that night!).

I was expecting to be in similar situation as OP this season... Turns out that it's my busiest time yet. I'm doing weddings as a part time job, so I didn't plan to book more then 6-7 weddings through the summer - now I have already 12 gigs (3 more to go). And ppl are calling 3-4 weeks ahead of their event. I think many couples postponed their decisions till the very last moment thinking about saving money. Later they realized that they have extra money for the video and/or they do want the video despite the cost. Funny thing that nobody asked me for any discounts - didn't have to lower my prices at all. I'm fairly priced on my market - most of the "veterans" out there are charging more and they are already booked, so I get as I call it "left overs". And I'm happy about it. But I have to add that I am not seeking for more work - I don't want to end up with tons of unedited projects. I'm still working on optimizing workflow and reducing amount of hours put in every video.

Also have to agree on others thoughts that many couples are asking for a discount just because everyone is expecting to beg for business opportunity. My approach is that if the client likes your work, they have to accept your terms. I know value of my work and I know that I deserve every penny for it. If customer cant afford it then I can offer them cheaper package - never more for less - always less for less. That also will prevent from future questions from referred customers wondering why my prices next season are higher then this season. If I respond that their friends got smaller package then it will be logical that they paid less. It'll sound stupid that I gave them discount just because they begged me for it.

So my motto is: be patient and evaluate your work fairly.

Hi Michael

After agreeing to do a "raw footage only" shoot for a couple last season, I really regretted it!! Most people seem to have no idea what "raw footage" is!!! They seem to think that they will get perfectly shot clips that simply haven't been "assembled" as such and had music and titles added. My groom in this case ("Don't worry, I'm an expert editor and will edit the video myself") Complained about each and every bit of footage that had a wobbly bit it in and he really expected to be able to drop each clip into the timeline, join 'em up and make a DVD!!!

If you are going to make a virtual loss on the job, rather don't do it!!! If you know that even your time at the venue is not covered, never mind the editing, you will not have the usual enthusiasm to do a good job so rather turn them down and spend the day with the family!!

You don't have to make a killing on your job but I do feel that you must at least make minimum wage for your efforts!!! If brides start complaining "we can't afford it" then rather suggest a smaller package..just do the ceremony only if needed. I have a little package called a "Mini Budget" wedding that usually satisfies the really low budget bride and they get me for 3 hours for $599.

Chris

I think it’s a very bad idea to offer a discount. I would consider it a slap in the face if I were in the groom’s shoes and discovered that the videographer I wanted was willing to drop/negotiate their price from what they had originally proposed. I would have to think to myself, “How many people actually paid the full price, essentially overpaying this person? How can I trust someone who just a moment ago was trying to squeeze me for more money than they’re trying to get me for right now? How low is this person willing to go on their price?” At this point, the customer can easily start thinking about your profit margin, rather than the value of the final product, and I don’t see that as a good thing.

How about the client who already booked you at the full rate, and then heard about this reduced rate that you gave to another couple? If your answer to this question is, “I’ll just do my best to keep this quiet,” then you should really ask yourself if you’re comfortable conducting business this way. If you’re doing something that you don’t want others to find out about, then maybe you shouldn’t be doing it.

There’s no way I’m going to tell one couple that my minimum rate is one price, and then drop it for someone else, regardless of the reason. I would consider it an insult to every other customer of mine who paid full price. You have to know that while some customers would be willing to pay you much more than you’re asking (but of course won’t tell you that out of courtesy), others will have to really stretch things to meet your full rate (and likewise won’t say anything…they simply respect your work enough to pay the rate that you’ve set). Although it’s possible that the former may not care much about you offering a reduced rate to someone else, the latter is in exactly the same position as some of the couples that you might be wanting to offer a reduced rate to. The only difference is that while one tried to negotiate with you, the other remained silent. I can’t justify charging the silent customer more than the other when they’re receiving the same service.

The fairest solution I see is to offer less work for less pay as noted throughout this forum, but you’ll need to figure out how to maintain a certain level of quality, since your name will be associated with that work, regardless of any disclaimers you make. This is extremely easy to do. Offer less coverage, eliminate extra cameras, shorten/drop any highlights, lose the cocktail hour, edit in SD, give them less copies, don’t spend eternity on the edit, cover only the main events at the reception, don’t make custom menus. Pick and choose what you’re going to eliminate or streamline, and if you’re still comfortable with what the resulting quality will be, then you have yourself a less expensive package.

Of course, the potential problem with this is that a customer from last year who stretched their budget to pay for your minimum package at the time, and who would have definitely gone for something less if it had been offered, may feel offended that you’re now giving a lower-priced film to someone else. I don’t believe this to be bad form on the videographer’s part at all though, since price changes are to be expected from any business…but more importantly, because the lesser package has been made available to all new customers instead of a select few. I just cannot justify charging customers different amounts for the same product based on their finances.

My rate is my rate, and although I instinctively dislike it when a customer asks if the price is firm, I have to remember that in many cases they’re simply trying to be savvy customers. They’ve become acclimated to a world of sales, negotiations, and special offers, and don’t want to “overpay.” I can’t blame them for being smart with their money, but that does not mean that I must also offer such things. As I wrote, offering something involving less work for less pay makes the most sense. You’ll be meeting them on price, and keeping your hourly rate at an acceptable amount, while remaining fair to your other customers.

What about a special case? If you’re in a serious jam and need to make some money quick to support your family, I doubt many people would fault you for discounting a package to cinch a booking. If this is truly the case though, then it’s probably time to restructure your business from the ground up. Think about streamlining your workflow, creating new packages, advertising more effectively, rebranding yourself, going after a new market, and possibly backing off from videography to focus more on an entirely different job.

You read from a lot of people that making something for a job is at least better than sitting around, and there’s some merit to that. However, along with that short-term profit comes possible long-term negative equity, and if taking the reduced-rate job ends up hurting your business in the long run (whether by encouraging ill feelings among your customers, associating your name with a negotiable price, filling your own head with the knowledge that you accepted a less-than-desired rate, etcetera), then it’s not the right move, assuming that you intend to stay in business for a good while.

Alec Moreno
http://www.1Day1ShotProductions.com

a long time ago a friend of mine who just happens to be, well, rich with a capital R, told me when you discount your price, you lower the value of your work.

Now having said that, I'm neither rich nor am I stupid and in this industry and this particular economy you do what you need to do to keep business coming in HOWEVER... I agree with Alec that instead of lowering the price, lower the package...if you lower the price for one, then believe me, the word gets around and pretty soon you're doing it for everyone. You've set a precedent and that can be a double edge sword. Change your packages and offer a ceremony only, or a full wedding without bridal prep, or a set amount of time at the reception, 1 camera (2 but one is locked down) instead of 3. That sort of thing.
No offense to ANYONE but we are not selling used cars here and we all complain that we don't get enough for our work and we get little respect. Hey all the bridal magazines say either you don't need video or you shouldn't pay more than $XXX and you really could have uncle Charlie do it for free. POOP I say!
I understand that for some it's either lower the price or not get the work but IMO if you discount then you don't have the right to complain about not getting enough to pay the bills or buy those new great toys we all covet. Again, I understand the need for lower prices in some cases so adjust the package to fit.
I've had people call me 3 or 4 weeks prior to the event and if I am open I certainly do not (emphasize DO NOT) even think of offering a discount- not that I do anyway but certainly not on a last minute booking.
Now let me say I DO have a special pricing for 2 venues that refer a decent amount of work to me and if the client lets me know they got to me thru the people at that venue then they qualify or the special price. Trust me it's not a lot off but it's the principal of it and neither of these venues is open to the public. They are both private clubs and are quite costly to join. I wish I could both have great golf courses.

Anyway the point is, don't discount unless you're going to do it across the board and IF you're going to do that then simply lower you package price(s). I
n the long run your reputation will remain higher and you don't have to spend time with a client "going to talk to the manager".

Just my $.01 worth (I gave a discount here)

Why do you think that is the case? A few months ago on a morning TV show in San Francisco an event planner said the same thing. She wound up with some sort of comment about loving your photographer. It made you wounder what other "arrangements" she had.

Since the thread seems to have wandered may I offer my 2c worth about one aspect of selling our services in this time of money squeeze?

Rather than reduce our prices we decided to increase the value. First at the end of last year we added a CD with 100+ still frames taken from the HDV master - complete with our copyright release letter which added to the value. We also ofer to give them a copy of the "Dream" wedding (the summary set to music they've chosen) suitable for their iPod, phone etc. Clients liked the offers but they weren't the clincher.

So, starting this last Spring we now offer the loan of a Standard Def camcorder for the couple to take on honeymoon and record (up to an hour on a 4GB SD card) as they wish. When they return we convert it unedited and only basically authored (ie no chapters etc) to DVD and include a single copy in the package.

The response has been terrific - not only with those who have taken up the offer but amongst those who have their own cameras but like the fact we're taking some action to make the product better. We also got good local press write-ups.

From our point of view the investment is marginal (less than £200 - $300 - per camera) and they all come with software which allows a simple conversion/burning to DVD.

The key is to increase the value of our package without significantly increasing the workload - which would be the same as offering a discount.

Finally it also allows us to make a little joke "and if a free camcorder for the honeymoon gives the groom lascivious ideas, be assured that we won't be looking at the video - it isn't necessary to see it to transfer it to DVD!"

Has anyone else any suggestions?

Jim,
I wish I had the answer to why. There could be lots of reasons that video is the forgotten child of weddings not the least of which is the availabilty of video cameras that anyone can buy and operate, even uncle Charlie. Back in the 70s and early 80s when I was doing still work, it was a VERY rare thing to see a guest at a wedding taking pictures on their own.It just wan't done. Now EVERYONE has a camera and EVERYONE is taking pictures at a wedding. I keep telling some of my photographer friends that the guests have better gear than they do ;-)
Back in the early 80s thru the mid 90s, while more and more couples wanted a tape of thier wedding and the gear prices and size started to get smaller it was by and large beyond the reach of the average guest so we had no competition other than other pros. Today you can walk into to most big box electronic stores and buy an HD palmcorder, walk out and start shooting. So availability is one reason.
Video is also still very new to weddings compared to photography of course, and unfortunately we made our own bed and now we all have to lie in it meaning back in the 80s and 90s look at what was produced. I don't mean the VHS tapes that ran for days (it seemed like it) I mean the style. Flying hearts and page turns (thanks Amiga) and while we don't do that sort of stuff anymore (I don't think most do anyway) it is STILL the reputation that follows us in the minds of many. People don't see what goes on behind the scenes, in post production. They see us standing there during a 1 hour ceremony and barely moving (during the mass) and think 'wow, videOAHgraphy isn't so hard' so that goes toward thinking lower prices.
In many cases we get hired LAST and cut FIRST. Last after they see how much they have left in their budget and cut First when they see they have run out of money.
Then you get people who have never a well done video. It doesn't have to be an award winner, most aren't, but a well done video. Proper framing, porper color/exposure, nicely cut, great audio and it tells the story of the day and all they have is the thought of someone coming in with 1000s or watts of big bright lights to light the reception, pointing a big camera in everyones faces with the old 200w sungun on it, making a fool of themselves at the cermony and you get a wedding planner who says 'love your photgrapher, you don't need a videographer let uncle Charlie do it'

Long way to go to say I don't have an answer. There are lots of reasons but ignorance is the biggest one IMO and we can say 'educate the client' all we want but for the most part all they want is a low price and top quality work, so whaddya do?
I wish I knew.

Great Respose
 

Right on the money. Said well, I applaud you.

I've been confronted with the clients at arranged meetings who state they 'cant afford it'

Other posters have said there are strategies to dealing with this tactic. Apart from something like 'OK, how much can you afford? and lets build a package around that' Are there others?

One client said to me that they've spent so much on the photographer, the venue, the food etc, now they only have a little left for the video - worryingly revealing (and insulting)

Dan

In your position I'd offer a time payment plan (costing more overall of course), but otherwise I think you (and they) have to bite the bullet and say well I'm sorry - which in your case means "I'm sorry you didn't budget properly!. As you say, you've already been placed as a lower priority than most other suppliers so maybe there's a lesson for them to learn about budgeting.

My instinct is (and I've had two brides cancel after paying non-refundable deposits this year) that if you do all the giving you just devalue you product and yourself.

I hope this doesn't sound pompous or arrogant because i really do sympathise, but unless you want to work for nothing alongside others who are being paid full whack, I don't think you have an option. As long as your sympathy seems sincere, I don't think they can fairly bad-mouth you. Sorry.

I am getting to the point where I no longer take some potential client's inability to plan and their greed as a personal insult..... well ok, not much of an insult. As someone famous once said, shake the dust off your sandals and leave.

Ive recently had the 'budget' talk with a client, It's quite annoying that video is the last thing to be thought about when it should be right up there with everything else.

Ive just filmed my friends wedding (yeah he had a discount!)
they have a 2 year old daughter who was the chief bridesmaid, ask yourself this...
(and the client) do you think she will want to look through the photo album or watch the DVD when she is older ?
this is not degrogatory to photogs I believe it is a great medium and should always be present at weddings, but to see herself at that age running, talking (just about)
laughing, being cradled in the arms of her grandparents who may have since sadly passed away to be able to view these memories in motion when she is older (which she will have forgotton...)

PRICELESS


my $.01 (Discount here also) ;)

Russ

I wonder how often other wedding vendors hear the "poor boy" I don't have any money speech. Most people on this forum look at this issue from a videographer-centric point of view. The reason I ask is the, "I don't have enough money" pitch is arguably the most frequently used buying negotiation approach.

Russell wrote " Ive recently had the 'budget' talk with a client, It's quite annoying that video is the last thing to be thought about when it should be right up there with everything else....."

Regular readers will know I completely agree with him. The trouble is we inevitably sound self-serving when we say it. However, I recently I discovered a piece in Ingrid Bergman's biography which I've included on the about page of our website. Wedding Videos Manchester,Cheshire,Staffordshire,North West,Merseyside,Lake District,Yorkshire

It's more persuasive because it's not written by a video producer and also because she was only referring to black and white silent images of her mother - not colour and sound.

I'm debating whether to make more of the quote and if you have an opinion I'd appreciate it.

What we are now pretty well decided on doing is to offer a photographic portrait service producing just the portrait and the formals and leaving all the reportage/informal work to us - work we can do that better for the reasons we all know.

A pal who is actually an eye surgeon is willing to give this a try. Although he's never earned his living at photography he's well equipped with a Leica M8 and umbrella flash etc and his work stands comparison with most of the photographers I know. Fortunately his background means he's not doing this because he needs the money and we've yet to decide how much extra to charge - my instinct is about £3-400 (say $450-600) including 6-10 10x8 prints. The trick is to limit the after-sales activity so we'll probably have to open up a separate part of the website.

Your views would be appreciated.

Philip, That is a very powerful quote on your web site. It is persuasive because it communicates the emotions and feelings associated with the sentimental value of video. Something as meaningful as life memory videos can't be expressed in only objective terms. When people can identify with feelings as well, they are more likely to understand their value and want it for their self.

Thanks Jim. For my money getting this point across is for all of us wedding video producers is close to being the Holy Grail, because it sets us apart and leaves the potential purchaser with no option but to put us higher up the purchase list. I hope my potential clientrs find it as persuasive as you.

Just wanted to touch base with an update. My two latest leads have both asked about price discounts. I was able to point them towards a "less for less" package and both have booked dates. Both B&Gs opted for a 2-cam package, instead of 3. Obviously I'll keep my 3rd camera rolling as a back up. I'm grateful for the advise from everyone and am glad to say that I can still hold my head high, since I have not de-valued my product. Thank you.

I'm glad you're happy Michael, but don't kid yourself that you've not compromised your position. If you have the third camera in action and don't charge for it you've compromised, however you try and rationalise it.

You've certainly not devalued your product, but you have discounted it.

Obviously you can't go back on your deals but I'd recommend you find ways to increase the value of your product at no or minimal cost eg increase the number of DVDs included in the price; if your clients like the idea, do a family growing up slide show - both things that cost little or nothing to do, but keep your prices up rather than discount in any way.

Remember that any recommendations your satisfied clients give you will expect the same deals.

Philip, you included it in your blog as well. However, in the blog the text is duplicated. You finish reading the Ingrid story and then it starts again!

Edward, how kind of you to tell me. You might have said it's good but not that good! Thank you. The blog has been amended. My thanks to you.