Its been 1.5 years and my videographer has not started the video...please help!
 

Hello Guys,

This is a very upsetting situation for my family and myself. I was married last year in May and the videographer I hired at the time was very nice and friendly and I had seen his work and it was pretty good. He did video tape a lot of hours as my wedding was a 3 day event and he was there for everything. I was happy with his work and I also tipped him $200.00 dollars after the wedding was done. Now, its been 1.5 years and I don't have my wedding video yet and I have spoken to my videographer and he said he is in France and will be back in October and once he starts he will notify me??? I was like I told you last year in September to start the video as I wanted to give him my own songs and he is saying he hasnt started yet because he has to work on the 2009 videos first before he gets to mine.

Another problem with this person is that he never replies back at all, it took him 1.5 months to respond back to an email I had sent him to which he told me he will finish the video by this June 2009. But I never received it and never heard back and left numerous messages to his home #, cell # and emailed him in July literally begging and pleading to finsih the video by mid August and he still never responded until I was really pissed and sent an email last Friday telling him of how he is very unprofessional and incompetent in his work and have no decency to respond back on time. I demanded him to respond by Monday September 14 2009 to which he did saying "he doesnt work on Demands and that it is my fault for not giving him the songs on time and he will notify me once he is back from France and once he starts the video". He had told me in May 2009 that it will be completed in June 2009 and when I signed the contract he told me he will finsih the video 2 months from the time we tell him to start the video. It has been exactly one year since I have told him and it doesnt look like he will even do it this year.

I had told him in the email either get it done by this month or I want my raw tapes back and will have someone else finsih it.

Now, I am sure even if he works on my video he will not do a good job and my wife and I are very concerned. I am going to take the raw tapes back and my 50% of what I have already paid him and am wondering if there is someone who is able and willing to help me out at all? I will obviously pay you for your time and effort for editing my video but can one of you professionals please help us out in this? My family, especially my wife is very upset and disappointed with all this and we are hoping someone can help us edit our video please???

You can email me at kamanali@gmail.com. This was an Indian wedding so there is a lot of footage but obviously I will leave it up to you as you are the professional and would know what clips would work where the best.

Before somene asks, as to why I did not go to my videographers house? WEll, I live in North Bay which is 4 hours away from Toronto as I moved early this year and I did try to go his plaace but had no luck as either there was no answer or he was not home.

So please let me know if you can help us out we would greatly appreciate it very much...it's so sad but I myself feel like crying as I type this I just feel horrible about this whole expeirnce.

Thank you for reading such a long post but hopefully you understand how upsetting this is for us.

Karim.

What a terrible situation for you to be in.

If you can get in contact with him, say that you realise he is extremely busy, and to save any more angst would it be possible for him to send you the raw tapes, and nothing more will be said.

Other than that, I dont know. Going down the legal route will be expensive (only the lawyers win, and they get all the money..) so if you are able to get hold of a mediator things will be better.

Here in Australia, each state has an office of fair trading, and consumer affairs, where a client such as yourself can seek assistance. This usually works well.

HTH
Ben

Hi Karim

No offence but I would have kicked his butt a long time ago..he is being not only downright unprofessional but almost fraudulent ... Alas, going down the legal route as Ben says, is often not worth it so I would at least go for the raw footage so you or someone else can edit it!! These are your memories and it's unfair that you have paid for services and not see any results.

It sounds like you are going to have to be really nice to him, get the footage in your hands and then you can put the screws on...most definately I wouldn't throw any more money at him. I sure there will be someone here that's close enough to you to help you out with the editing!!

Chris

Hi Karim,

Take a deep breath.

Did you pay him in full? If yes, I would politely ask for your tapes back and at least a 50% refund. You can use that money to pay someone else to edit it.

Yes, the legal route is pretty much useless, except for perhaps small claims court, which you could use as a last resort if he refuses to refund your money. Small claims lets you get into court without the expense of a lawyer.

Once you get your tapes back, you can post here again looking for editing help. If you have three days of coverage and lots of material, I would expect you would have to pay around $1000 to get the job done. Maybe more or less depending on what you have and what you would like to receive.

Relax and deal with this guy on a professional basis, as hard as that is right now when you are upset. I suspect he doesn't want to edit your video anyway, and might be happy to get rid of it. The problem will be getting your refund.

Do everything in writing. Send him a registered letter. Keep a copy, save all your emails, etc, etc. Then if he refuses to refund you, you have records to show in small claims.

Even if in the end, you lose all your money and have to pay extra to have it done, do it and put it behind you. It's a small loss in the big picture of your life. Move on.

Name him on this forum.
I doubt if he's one of the regulars here.
If he's that busy and has so much work that it takes him this long then he could pass the work on, there's plenty of us that aren't that busy, me included.

Paul.

We won't do that here as it is most definitely not in the spirit of this community to do so. I will immediately remove that information from public view and close a couple of accounts as well. For Karim, as has been stated, your best bet at this point is to acquire the raw tapes. Nobody responds well to "demands," so my suggestion is to remain as amicable as you can manage. If I were in your position, I would make arrangements to pick up the tapes in person. Be firm and persistent, but above all, be polite. I wouldn't worry about any extra expense, since you cannot really assign a value to this material. Legal action should be your very last recourse only after exhausting all other options. Good luck and keep us advised of your progress.

Our turnaround is never more than six weeks. I don't know what your small claims court is like in Canada, but it would be worth looking into, if not just to give you a little leverage. Getting your hands on the raw footage is everything. I wouldn't want this joker editing if he's that incompetent. I received a call once from a swamped videographer who was threatened with a lawsuit for being eight months late. He farmed out the job to me and I finished it in two weeks.

This guy is taking something that people would run into a burning home to salvage. In the states, small claims is very inexpensive (like $35) and the judge would side with you IMO.

The thing to say is how sorry I feel for you and your wife - it's a nasty situation to be in.

What does worry me is that he may well have experienced a technical fault and (for instance) have shot everything mute. He's looked at the footage and panicked, not being brave enough to admit his faults and not having proper indemnity insurance he's just hoping you'll fade away.

But you won't. The Small Claims Court can be pretty effective, but as others have said, keep your cool, be polite and simply ask that he send you all the raw tapes. Get him to copy them first so there won't be any 'lost in the post' stories. And the best of luck to you.

tom.

This is a perfect example about things that make the news magazines and destroy our reptutaion as a group.

I have seen this type of thing not only a few times over the last few years on the TV news mags but it's also been posted on the bridal websites.

These are the guys that undo everything we all work hard to overcome and while
I agree the legal recourse avenue would be the last resort, if after trying the "nice" route you find that it is not working, perhaps your lawyer (if you have one) can simply wirte a letter on his/her letterhead and demand recourse. Many times just the letter will do the job.


One of my favorite responses to people that have or are jacking me around over things which involve money for services (with me as the client), if the job isn't done to satisfaction or the service hasn't been provided and I've tried the 'nice' route, I generally say "we need to resolve this or I will be forced to take further action". I don't say it with anger or threathingly. I am simply informing them that I am prepared to move ahead with 'further action'.

After 1.5 years, I would say the tapes have had enough time to mature naturally and the time to get it done is now. Get the tapes!

Good luck and let us know how it works out.

If he doesn't co-operate maybe you could threaten to take the story to a local newspaper and send him a photo of your wife in tears in the meantime.
That may prick his conscience and give him a panic attack at the same time.

I see most everyone agreeing with Karim (and the customer is right, right?), but I'll play "devil's advocate" here...


Karim,
A couple things - if he's in France, you are going to have to wait until the guy gets back, making demands while someone is halfway around the world will just get him ticked off and not likely to want to work with you... not what you want.

Also, you indicate "I wanted to give him my own songs and he is saying he hasnt started yet because he has to work on the 2009 videos first before he gets to mine"... WHEN did you get him the songs?? I'm getting a vibe here that the guy has some things on his calendar, expected you to deliver songs sometime last year and you didn't get them to him until quite a while after the wedding - am I misreading your timeline? I gather from your post you expected him to start editing without having the songs... that may be a big part of the problem.

I would think that finishing the oldest projects first is the "normal" approach, but if a project goes off track, it may make finishing problematic - if you delayed in getting the music required to finish the project to the videographer... there may be some friction if you blame him. Let's say he's got half a dozen or more 2009 projects in edit, and he'd have to clear them ALL off his hard drives for your 3 days of footage... OK, I'd go buy a new big drive, but... realize that while he may have been ready to do your edit a year ago, he now may have to schedule around other things because the music arrived late.

There are two sides to every story, and certainly we all sympathize with you - that's a long time to wait, and you want to stay on top of it. BUT, getting angry and frustrated isn't going to get your video done (and may have unwanted undesirable effects). It's already apparent from what you have posted that the videographer is placing at least some of the blame for the delay on your not getting him the music tracks...


Keep in mind that your goal is to get the finished video. I'll presume the guy now has all the required music, and can put your video on a schedule - ask nicely and realistically what that schedule will be - keep in mind he can't edit while in France, he now has other projects that have cropped up in the last year that also must be done, and there's already obviously some friction on THIS project. Friction is never good on a creative project, and I'd suggest you try to find an approach that will reduce and avoid that, ASAP. As Don suggests, being FIRM is fine and certainly warranted, but one can be firm and still be reasonable.

That said, you should put together a reasonable timeline (for editing 3 days of footage... that is a large project) in writing and ask him if he thinks it's possible to meet it with his current workload/calendar. If not, and he can't give you some timeline you can BOTH work with, then ask him to consider giving you the tapes so you can have someone else edit it, along with whatever that may cost.

Getting upset, angry, and demanding, or worse getting "litigious" isn't going to get you to your goal. I'm hoping that seeing both sides will help you resolve the situation when the time comes - but honestly, jumping all over someone who for whatever reason is currently on the other side of the planet and in all likelyhood can't possibly do anything to rectify the situation at the moment doesn't help you...

If you needed to vent, I totally understand (been there, done that, but be careful on "public" forums), relax a bit, and re-group with the goal of getting the video done when the guy gets back and settles in.

Hey Karim.....Get ready for winter in North Bay...

If you DO get the tapes back, give me a shout....
Otherwise, there's lots of people on the forums (especially in Southern Ontario area) to choose from..

I just did my first Indian/Jewish wedding last week....Three boxes of tapes man!!!!!
You guys are hard core.

Good luck with your situtation..

Hi Karim, best thing for you is to get your tapes back. I think theres little chance of you getting the guy to edit it now as he is going to be pretty busy with the other jobs he has got.

I'm agree with Anish, better get your tapes back, you might ask other video editors to edit later and dont forget to ask for 50% refund

All I'd add to the excellent advice already offered is to give the editing job to someone who understands Indian weddings. The culture (musically especially) is very different to the conventional "western" wedding video and unless you're experienced it can be a steep learning curve with numerous pitfalls.

PS I also think you're being very generous offering 50% of the fee - in my view his behaviour has lost him any right to any payment except perhaps the raw stock but even then you have to ask was it virgin? It also underscores the value (to the buyer) of our practice of taking a deposit and 50% before the wedding, the rest on delivery of the approved copies.

On other hand, you could always make him a "walk away" offer: he gives the tapes back to you and "walk away" for good nwith no further exchange of money.

It may cost you more in the end by the time you get the finished video done, but at least you do get to retrieve your valuable tapes and find an alternate editor.

Andrew

I agree with all the posters that you need to be nice and work out a deal to get your material back as a first priority.

The comment that Tom had that there may be a problem with the material is a valid point. I would hope/think that at a minimum, there would always be something salvagable.

Important point - Above I said get the "material" back. It is most likely this was a miniDV cam of some type and the media is on miniDV tape. I know from hard learned experience that miniDV tapes are not always cross compatable with other brands of cameras using the same capture format. Sometimes using an incompatable camera to capture the material will destroy the video (although not mechanically). It is always best to capture the footage off the original recording camera except with known compatability of the capture unit.

Since it is unlikely this guy is going to capture hours of footage and provide it to you on optical or SSD media, you have to find out exactly what type of camera he used so you can be positive you will be able to capture the tapes.

Hi Guys,

Thank you for your suggestions and advice so far, I would have replied earlier but reading most of your comments have helped me calm down a bit, but still very very bitter about everything.

I have decided that I am going to talk to him very politely and ask him if he still wants to edit the video but would like to have the raw tapes back so I can give them to someone else to edit for me. I would do it myself but I just dont have much expeirence in it nor do I have the time myself as I am no expert. I am willing to pay someone who is willing to take on this project for us but I am just hoping that when we look at the video we actually feel good about it. I dont think my videographer will even do a good job anymore.

To respond back to Dave regarding providing the songs to him, well I had been trying to get a hold of the videographer since last october 2008 but he would never respond nor would he answer his calls and I left many messages for him and then in December we bought a business which required me to move 4 hours away from city and I then fogot about the video for the next couple of months until my parents started asking and I then did the same called and called and sent emails. I finally met him at a friends wedding and was shocked he had hired him and told him very politely if he can get my video done and he confirmed in front of my wife and other friends that it will be done by early to mid June. I then emailed him June 5th to follow up and once again called and called and he finally emailed back on July 6th saying he was unable to even start and because this is a busy season he will just notify me once he starts????? I figured fine hopefully by August I should get it then so I emailed July 25th to follow up again and he never responded and I then got a little upset and left a message but a polite firm message saying its been 1.5 years and my family is concerned and would like to know when the video will be finished and I also mentioned if he could return my calls or at least email me with some sort of correspondence and this message I left exactly on August 13 because that was my b-day and he still never answered me back to anything.

Now I was furious so I sent an email saying he is very unprofessional and the rest was mentioned in the first post so wont say it again....but he responded back saying he hasnt called me back because he thinks I blamed him over the phone for the delay and that was not the case as I had said on the message that it has been 1.5 years and I need a timeframe but he took it differently. Anyways, he is now saying that once he gets back he will let me know in October as to when he will even start. I just hate the fact that I am in this position and still have to be nice to this prick after what he has done. I feel even worse for giving him a $200.00 tip.

At this point if I can get my raw tapes which trust me I will, but i am hoping he will just edit it properly as I plan on talking to him face to face by going to his place when he returns and hopefully put everything behind us. But I will still get the raw tapes back just in case.

Peter, Thank you so much for your generous offer and do not be surprised if I take you up on your offer. Obviously I will pay you for your time and what you would charge as that is the only fair thing to do I would be just glad if things fall apart with the current videographer then whoever I might get to edit the video will be paid fairly for their time. I am not worried about the money I just want to make sure when my kids watch the wedding tapes that they enjoy the moments and my wife and myself along with our families just want to enjoy the memories from our wedding day.

Anyways, I will email him today and will report back what he has to say and will update you guys as to what the outcome is once I have the finished product.

Karim.

If your event was 3 days long, I'm guessing he has between 15-30 shot tapes. My guess is that his hard drive is already full of current shorter projects, and can't handle all your footage at once. Sad to say, but I don't think he'll ever finish your event. Get your raw tapes from him ASAP.

Karim get "your" tapes back, if you had a verbal or written contract it is now broken. Some videographers don't like giving out raw footage however in your case you have every right to demand your tapes back. There are various reason why a videographer can take up to one year to complete an edit, he's probably never done a three day wedding and the amount of footage probably overwhelmed him so he put it off until he was swamped with other edits, this happens to guys that are new in the market. I can't say for sure what the reasons however it's unethical. I would not advise you give him more time, I'm sure he has family back home ask him to organize that someone get the tapes to you. I echo what the rest have said, be polite, keep it casual with a firm undertone, let him know you are serious. If you do decide to give him another chance understand that you will probably only get your edit after another 8 months.

Did you check his references? The reason I ask is that might help your understanding of the situation. If others have had similar problems, that's one thing. If your problem with him is more unique, that's another. I agree with other; a direct confrontation will probably just make matters worse. I'm sure your highest priority is to preserve the video of your wedding. In that vein, getting the tapes in hand protects that interest although you may lose the money that you have paid. If you are able to retrieve them, you will cherish the memories they memorialize much longer than your feelings about this guy.

All he shoots are Indian weddings so all his footage is usually 12-15 tapes. Before I signed the contract with him I had seen his work and it was descent not the best but for the price it was descent better then other Indian videographers, nothing as close to Ram from butterflysquad.com. I wish if I knew this site before hiring him but didnt know until late last year. Anyways, he has been doing the same to my friend it has been 6 months and he replied to him just recently so he does have a reputation for ignoring. To be honest he is not busy or anything I spoke with some other people and found out he wasnt getting that many clients. He only shoots with one camera and its pretty much just point and shoot nothing too fancy like a glidecam or anything just a tripod and one Sony HDV camera. No matter what I will definitely get my tapes back from him for sure and get someone else to edit them again and pay the extra cost.

I will be extremely polite when speaking with him next instead of loosing my cool, hopefully I will be able to control my temper as few days ago when he had replied to me I was very steamed.

I just hope I can find someone else who has had experienced shooting indian weddings so it would be easier for them to know about the various ceremonies.

Let's see what happens.

When we did our first Indian wedding, it wasn't much of a learning curve, even though it's substantially different from traditional American weddings. I would instead find talent and consider how to brief him and what he would need to know.

Hi Karim, maybe Ram can you help you out with the edit. I agree that the guy may not have enough space in his hard drive, but he can edit 1 day (5 tapes) at a time if he really wants to.

I wish I could help you I am up to my neck, 2 Weddings and an 18th Birthday to finish and time is running out...... (sigh)

I remember seeing an episode of People's Court where the couple was in exactly the same situation as you! After almost 2 years, the couple didn't get their video. The videographer had some excuses, but in the end the judge awarded the couple a full refund I think...does anyone remember seeing this episode? It was 7 or 8 years ago.

Small claims court may be the way to go if you can't get your tapes back immediately. Ask around the Indian community and see if anyone else is in the same boat. In the meantime, call your friend and file a complaint together if there is no response from the videographer.

Just out of curiosity, exactly what was stated in his contract?

OK, I still am confused as to when the music arrived, but I see "what we have here is a failure to communicate"... and it appears your videographer is not good at communicating.

Understandably, you are peeved, I know how easy it is to get ticked when you are ignored, plus your friend is experiencing the same trouble, and it's quite possible that others are experiencing the same thing... not good signs.

Send a certified letter, start keeping a paper trail, just in case. Your friend should do the same. If it comes to small claims (or any legal dispute), the guy who has the documentation in order usually wins. I'd also suggest you sit down and get the timeline as clear and accurate as possible - I'm having a tough time following your descriptions, though I get the general timeline.

If he says he still wants to edit, I'd set a reasonable deadline - say the end of this year, and have him sign something agreeing to that. If he won't, just get the tapes back, ASAP.


I did a bit of math, and 15 tapes x around 12Gb each is only 180Gb... 1TB drives are under $100, so unless the guy doesn't know how to stuff a spare drive into the computer (it's possible... not everyone is a techie) or hook up a external USB device (a no-brainer), it shouldn't be a problem to dump the tapes. Perhaps that's an option - ask him to capture the raw footage from the tapes onto a portable drive? At least that way you would have your raw material. Then you can copy to another drive or send it out broadband to someone to quote you for the edit.

If he won't dump the tapes, get the originals, don't say anything about refunds UNTIL YOU HAVE THE TAPES IN HAND!!! You can always take him to Court, but you want those tapes or a clean copy. Then you can have them edited with any luck (I agree you may want to find out the camera type, but I think you're fairly compatible if it was a Sony HDV cam - that SHOULD play back from almost any HDV camera).

There are plenty of guys around here who can edit an Indian wedding, I'd love to try my hand at it sometime! Hopefully your raw footage is good and usable, and you can get it back. Even if it's rough or poorly shot, you'd be surprised what creativity in post can achieve, but you need those tapes or the captured files.

I don't think you'd have any problems prevailing in Court if it comes to that (collecting may be another matter), but I'd feel a lot better if you can come on here and say "I've got my tapes!" before it goes any further... keep that in perfect focus... Money you can make or lose, the footage of a one time event you either have or you don't.

Once you've got the tapes, I'm sure someone here can step up and help you out. Aside from geographic considerations, I'd capture the tapes for you if you had 'em, just because I'd like to see the event!

Dave, the amount of space footage requires depends on a number of factors. I shoot Canon HDV and capture in FCP with the ProRes option .. and 1 tape takes about 30-40GB. So for me, 15 tapes would require 450-600GB of space. Just an FYI for you.

Karim did email me regarding the editing. As I mentioned to him, I'm up to my neck deep with editing of the weddings we shot over the summer; I simply don't have anymore time to take on extra editing jobs.

I suggested him to get the raw footage from the videographer and try to do the editing himself (if he has the hardware/software to do it). Knowing him personally, as he shadowed me at a wedding shoot last year; he has a great amount of passion to learn wedding film making. What is a better way to learn editing than trying to edit his own wedding. If he come across any technical hurdles, he can always seek help at great forums such as this one, as there are plenty of experienced wedding film makers who are willing to help out new comers.

Travis -
I was going from standard compressed HDV - sounds like your import transcodes for easier editing. I transcoded HDV footage ONCE, and the extra HDD space and time were too much for me... If I were to transcode my AVCHD, it'd be brutal on HDD space... I'd rather just build a faster machine to edit on that can decompress on the fly... generally HDV is around 4Gb for 20 minutes plus or minus, but various capture/transcode/compression schemes can vary widely.

The videographer is completely taking the P. Court for damages would be my reckoning. That would concentrate his mind. he would lose and have to pay court fees. Chances are he would come up with the footage pretty danm quick.

I have shoot over 40 weddings this year. How long do my brides wait? Longest has had to wait 5 weeks this year, when I did 4 weddings in one week.

The videographer should sit there, from dawn till dusk if he has to, to make sure he/she doesn't get too far behind. There's no excuse to be a year or so behind. It's called bone idle laziness and if I was like that my repution would rightly be in tatters.

And another point Never do your weddings out of sequence, no matter how desperate the client is to have their footage. Do it chronologically. Clients have to wait their turn. They can shout as loud as they want but have to wait their turn. I tell them 4-6 weeks, but get it to them faster to make a nice suprise. But some still phone after 2 weeks!

You would think they would have other, more interesting things on their minds.;)