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Hi Howard!
$800 Canon T2i $800 Canon T2i $800 Canon T2i $160 Canon BG-E8 Grip $160 Canon BG-E8 Grip $100 10 x Generic T2i Batteries $815 Canon 24-105 f/4 L IS (used) $608 Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 $1006 Canon 70-200 f/4 L IS (used) $420 12 x Patriot SDHC 16gb Class 6 ($35 each) $179 LCDVF Viewfinder $99 Neutral Density Fader $239 Zoom H4N (refurbished) $60 Assorted Accessories (Macro tube, Nikon lens adapter, step-up ring, hood, hot shoe adapter, hot shoe bar) $6246 Selling 2 x Canon XH-A1 on eBay And FWIW the rest: Production: 3 x Canon HV-30 / batteries / WA lenses Monopod 4 x tripods Glidecam on Steadicam Vest / Arm IndieSlider Mini Shotgun mic 5 iriver recorders / Giant Squid mics / AA's 2 x light stands 2 x Reception Lights™ Nikon 50mm f/1.4 Same-Day Edits 2 x MacBook Pro 17" Optoma Projector Case of cables / adapters etc. Projector screen - 120" JBL EON G2 15" powered speaker / stand Hand truck |
Thanks Joel
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Wow, great list Joel. It's almost making me want to switch to DSLR's! And you shoot alone with all that stuff? Amazing!
Question to DSLR videographers: With the 12-minute recording limit, does the new file start immediately after the previous one? (ie. If I put two consecutive files on a timeline, will the playback be continuous as if I never stopped recording?) And is the new file recording automatic? |
Hi Chris,
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I won't reiterate all of the great information in this thread, but I've been shooting 99% all DSLR since I've started my own studio last fall. One good tip I got about shooting in regards to DSLR overheating is bring a white towel to your outdoor weddings and drape them on your camera body to reflect heat.
This may not prevent the overheating from happening but it will keep it from happening sooner. I started out shooting without grips on both my 7Ds and they have rarely overheated in 24p. 30p was another story. Now that I have grips on them both, I can't say if it has helped because the first time out, I was shooting in direct sunlight beating on the cameras and forgot to pack a towel :S. One overheated at the 8 min mark but did not shut off. I ran it until the full 12 minutes and then for another 2 immediately after. Footage looked fine. I'm still on the original firmware if that makes any difference. I'm not sure if the t2i's overheat or not like the 7D's sometimes do. |
I have officially switched over to all DSLR, the quality difference, the ability to select lenses based on what effect I am looking for, low light ability, small form factor, and shallow depth of field and macro ability sold me. It is definitely more difficult to use, however I feel like the extra work is worth it in the end when the bride sees the quality of her video.
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This is great thread! One thing I haven't seen mentioned here is that shooting weddings with all DSLRs is much more conducive to short-form/cinematic edits, than long-form documentary style or "traditional" wedding videos where everything is shown in its entirety.
For example, I get plenty of clients who have full-Mass Catholic ceremonies that last over an hour, and they want to see the entire thing with nothing cut out. Add to that 30 - 40 minutes of toasts at the reception... you know, when just about "everyone" wants to get up and say something. I can't imagine the editing nightmare that would ensue, trying to constantly sync 12 minute chunks of video here and there. So for those of you who now shoot DSLR only.... what do you tell your clients who want the long-form style of video? Do you simply say sorry we don't that... or do you still try to make it work? |
Hi Jeff,
Pluraleyes (Singular Software) really takes the headache out of synching. Its available for Vegas and Final Cut Pro. Hopefully there will be more editing apps added. We will no doubt see more of this type of utility in the future. Its just too helpful for this not to be available to everyone. My main concern is not editing, but the logistics of keeping the cameras running while shooting alone. I've got some ideas for that. |
This is a great thread and since it's wedding season - figured I would share my experience and thoughts.
I bought a T2I and a canon 50mm 1.4 lens to mess around with. In march I shot my first wedding with it. Being a little nervous with the bride prep I shot almost everything twice, once with the T2I and once with my trust XHA1. During the rest of the day I messed with the T2I but used my XHA1's for all the important stuff plus extra footage...good thing I did...the card crapped out on me. I used recovery software and was able to get back about 75% of the missing files, but if you use DSLRs exclusively...what would you do if that was all you had and filmed with...now you need to tell the couple half of their video is missing...I don't think I want to deal with that...and to bring it home even closer...my photographer at my wedding this past november lost all our family and bridal party shots due to a crap card. He's a very well known, amazing photographer and I know it's not his fault and I know there is nothing he could do about it...so I was very understanding...but someone who doesn't know...forget it...that's a lawsuit waiting to happen. Now if these vDSLRs were to come out with dual card slots shooting to both simultaneously one as a backup I would definitely consider a full time switch. I know tape still has issues, drop outs, breaking - in fact a few years ago one broke on me, snapped - I sent it out for repair and within a week I had a fully functional tape that was missing maybe 25 seconds from the snap point - but I was able to use b-roll and backup audio to make it seamless on the edit... Anyways - back on track...so I bought new cards, san disk extreme class 10's and decided to give it another go last night. Luckily no errors on the cards, but looking back on the footage - it looks good, but the form factor just makes it so hard for steady shots. I use a z-finder and an l bracket and for short times I do real well with steadiness but for longer durations forget it...on top of that, we do a lot of big weddings where you have no choice but to shoot over head - very hard with a DSLR. So I think my solution is...there isn't a single unimportant part of the day so I will continue to use my XHA1s as my main cameras. I will break out the DSLRs mainly for creative shots...rings, flowers, etc - I may capture a little of prep with them or portraits, but I will always have my xha1 there to capture as well just in case. I will DEFINITELY use my DSLR for staged shoots though - such as an E-shoot or Trash the dress or anything like that...those are not events...and can be redone and there is no worry about being obtrusive with a tripod or monopod or big shoulder rig...but a wedding...there is no do over and unobtrusiveness goes a long way. My last thought on the whole DSLR situation...There is no doubt about it, DSLRS give an AMAZING look and feel to videos, but I think there are only a handful of people out there who truly know how to use them well (myself not being one of them!), so with that, I think a lot of videographers are trading in the quality of their shots, steadiness, composition, etc for a prettier look - and when all is said and done the people who are receiving their videos are NOT pros, most of them do not know too much about video and DSLR video - what they do know is when a shot looks pleasing to the eye, when a shot is steady, when you capture the right moment and edit it well - thats what they know. If you can do this with a DSLR more power to you, but I think (and I say I think because my mind can change) for me, I will not make a full dslr jump until canon makes a full bodied VIDEO camera based off their DSLR model - when that happens and it has all the proper tools we as event videographers need, then there would be no reason to switch, but until then, to continue to book clients and make clients happy I will focus on the quality of product, the shots and the edit, not just the way it looks. |
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I know a lot of people praise Plural Eyes, but we still do all of our sync manually. We're really fast at it so it's not a big deal. Also, a recent review of Plural Eyes in EventDV magazine seemed to suggest that you won't really save time using Plural Eyes on average, and it's more for people who just don't want the hassle of doing it themselves. It's great software from what I understand, but if you're already good and fast with manual sync and you don't mind doing the work yourself, you don't really need Plural Eyes. |
So far I haven't used my GH1 at a wedding but I'm getting close to being ready to.
I think all-DSLR weddings would work magnificently for larger productions (eg 3 vid guys + sound op). With a crew like that you can afford to miss your focus pull once or twice. With a production like that you can get away with a 12 minute limit as long as the camera operators are staggering their recodings at pre-decided intervals. Plus the bigger budget of those companies means they could probably have a few spare bodies in case overheating pops up. Where DLSR-only won't work so well is for one man weddings. In those situations you need to have your sound on your main camera rig (whether it's your onboard audio or an extra recorder mounted to your rails) so you can monitor audio. You need to have one camera that you can leave unnattended for up to an hour. You need one lens that can cover everything from the Bride walking past you down the Isle (sometimes only 1-2 feet away) to an extreme close up of the rings or the kiss from the back of the church. Plus you need a good form factor (I can't work without a top-handle) and the reliability of a smooth zoom rocker. It will be interesting to see how the AF100, with all the additional bells and whistles of a video camera, changes how people use DSLR's/shallow DoF/interchangable lenses at weddings. |
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- Usable viewfinder when shooting video. - flip-out and tilt LCD display allows much easier positioning of the camera while maintaining a view of the LCD screen. - No 12-minute clip length limit allows the camera to also be used unattended on a tripod. - No overheating issue. For this and other reasons, some believe the GH1 is an ideal wedding camera. |
In the news section here, it appears that Sony will have a new camera releasing shortly (as in REALLY shortly), apparently compatible with the Alpha mount. If it's like the P&S Sonys w/1080p, it won't have a 12 minute limit (more like 30 minutes, which puts it into viable recording length for weddings). Tilt 3" screen, no VF, but with a nice screen like that... I think it would be doable. Probably won't be subject to overheating problems.
If it also has image stabilization on par with the XR/CX series, this could be an interesting little beast. http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/digital-...x-cameras.html EDIT - these are official, and even more interesting is a more video-camera like prototype/mockup linked on that thread. |
I shoot 1-man all DSLR and haven't had any problems. 7D and T2i. The 12 minute clips are really not a bother. I've shot 14 weddings. I did use the XHA1 for the first 10, but I now leave that in the car.
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How do you guys workaround the overheating factor? Do you just turn it off, if so, how long?
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We haven't hit the really hot days yet, but right now we've found that just shutting the camera down for a minute seems to solve the issue. For any outdoor ceremonies we will have small white cloths on the cameras. A tiny, mini-umbrella or flat shade would be awesome though. I've been thinking about making up a flat shade on an adjustable arm. I just need it to be inconspicuous.
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We are almost at the point where we are doing all DSLR shoots. Once we got a taste of DSLR there was no going back.
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Here's a bit of a different perspective on the DSLR issue. I think the camcorder manufacturers owe a big apology to the professional videographers of the world. Those who have the creative ability and passion to produce pieces that take advantage of the features that DSLR cameras provide have had to endure some hardship to do so. These cameras are very video "unfriendly" yet these admirable souls persevered and mastered their DSLR's in order to greatly improve the production value of their work. My hat is off to them.
But the future is bright. 2011 and 2012 should bring a new crop of large sensor VIDEO cameras that make the job much easier. It's great to see competition between the video camera manufacturers starting to show itself with large sensor video cameras. Oh, and one other thing. After these new large sensor video cameras are established in the market, the market for used DSLR cameras should be very active. A number of videographers will sell at least part of their DSLR cameras when they buy large sensor video cameras. It makes me remember an old manual drill my dad had called a "brace and bit". Funny thing, after my dad got his power drill, he didn't use his brace and bit any more. |
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Last weekend we had an overheating incident again during preps, and it wasn't THAT warm in the room (maybe 75-80 max). But later on while filming outside we had no issues. This past winter I ran a test where I started the camera rolling inside (temperature was 70F), and kept it recording to see how long it could go. At around 30 minutes the temp symbol came up but I kept recording. The camera was able to keep recording with no issues for the next hour and I eventually stopped it because the battery was running out. So honestly, I don't quite understand the overheating issue as it seems to present itself somewhat randomly. There IS an update out now from Canon that makes the temp warning less sensitive, meaning it takes more to activate the warning. This doesn't actually solve the issue, though. |
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I have had brides pee their pants because the footage looks so good. I kid you not, they say, "It really looks like a movie." Don't shoot with DLSR. More business for us. |
Kelly, what type of video do you produce? Is it a cinematic highlights only? Or full ceremony and reception? Do you shoot with only 1 DSLR? How many crew do you have, and do you have a backup camera at all?
I cannot imagine trying to shoot an entire wedding with a single camera, let alone a single DSLR. Yes, you can get great results most of the time, but it really is not worth the risk. You can get great quality b-camera's for under $500, so it's just not worth the risk of not having a backup camera. This applies to all wedding videographers, not just those using DSLRs, but I believe with the low-cost, high quality technology we have today, there is no excuse for not having a back-up, unmanned angle recording the entire ceremony (not just the first 12 minutes until it stops recording). I think a similar principle applies to all-DSLR videographers. It's too risky (even if you have 2-3 DSLRs) not to have a single, constant, back-up video source. Yes, people are succeeding and I applaud them on their ingenuity and persistance but to have only DSLRs, is, in my opinion, playing with fire. |
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A "Flash" of worry.
Some of the posts about flash card issues are starting to get me a little nervous ;)
I'm curious, for those of you who've had these issues... could you trace these issues to anything other then random error... such as you were using a budget brand card.. or perhaps should of done a routine full format before hand... or perhaps even using certain model/class cards within a certain brand? I'm mainly interested in know what brands and models people trust the most (SanDisk is a given, but even then.. which models) and which ones should be avoided at all costs.. particularly if they seem misleadingly trustable. As event videographers this is of course extremely important because the luxury of "reshoot" isn't there and I think as wedding/event videographers you might have better insight due to the level of continuous use that is present and likely a instigating factor when it comes to card issues. I certainly agree with the feeling of having a level of trust in tape and it's archive friendly characteristics... but for many projects/workflows... particularly an A cam where your recording off and on constantly.... flash/HDD capture is a whole new world of convenience and time saving. |
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I have not read every response here but will give my recent conclusion.
Pro's : Great glass, less gear to carry Con's : Focus, if they are moving and you are at a shallow DOF, you get some unusable footage while it tries to focus. HEAT, these things get hot, and can't help but wonder what the long term effect is going to be. Matching other footage is more difficult IMO. I just did not like it, too many things to have to have just right, I like having the video camera do what its made to do, and I will continue to use the DSLR for fun stuff when I have time. |
I've considered selling an HV40 and replacing it with a T2i (once they're not on back-order!). Does anyone have any experience with the exFAT-based sdxc cards yet? From what I understand, the file size limit on sdxc cards is so high that right now we would never have to worry about it. I noticed you can buy a 64gb Sandisk card on bhphotovideo for about the same price as two 16gb sdhc Sandisk cards. I wondered about heating issues, whether anyone has actually recorded for 30+ minutes on one.
And a separate question. (And I know I'm going to catch a beating for mentioning auto-focus...) How does auto-focus work on a dSLR? More problematic in low-light? Any dof still present? |
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Thanks for the clarification. Does it require the operator to hit the Record button after each 12 minute increment, or does it just automatically start a new file? That wouldn't be such a big deal, if so...
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It does *not* automatically start a new file. Upon reaching the 4GB clip length limit (which is appx. 30 minutes in SD mode or 12 minutes in HD mode), the camera stops recording and does nothing else until the camera operator makes an input.
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You should also note that the camera will not alert you or notify you that recording has stopped. You have to keep a careful watch on the recording time.
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I want to see one - ONE - wedding highlights clip from DSLR shooters that doesn't include several shots going from out-of-focus to in-focus. I also want to see a DSLR clip that follows a bride up the isle perfectly in focus with shallow DOF, (which is the whole reason to use this technology, right?) as she moves (and I mean really crisp, not just close) from the far end of the room to right up next to the camera without an edit. I want someone to show me it can be done, because I'm very skeptical, I'll admit it.
What I see all the time is shots going from out of focus to in-focus, and edits to cover up the messes. I'm absolutely sick of seeing out of focus stuff from these cameras. It's unprofessional, no matter how "stylistic" it looks at the moment - because it's not really being done stylistically in the vast majority of clips I've seen - it's done to cover up lousy focus. Why am I skeptical? Because I've worked extensively with DSLRs and different lenses. I know that the Canon lenses have extremely sensitive and limited control - they weren't meant for video follow focus. Congratulations to those who have learned to handle them well - but it's still not how they were meant to be used. Again, I want to see a long isle shot with shallow DOF that stays in focus the entire length of the walk with no edits. I LOVE my DSLR. It does what it does VERY well, and gives great beautiful shots. But I do get sick of seeing bad focus being disguised as style, and it's becoming a rampant disease with these cameras!! |
I need to say first that I think my post was a bit harsh, so I'd like to apologize. I do not mean to sound like a hater or curmudgeon. I'm not anti-DSLR, really I'm not. I'm just not impressed much with a lot of the stuff I'm seeing in clips from people who are using them.
I'm not talking about zoom - I'm just talking about keeping a subject in focus as they move from far away to close to the camera. To me you have two choices - set a small aperture that will keep the subject in focus throughout (which most any videocamera already does easily), or you can keep a larger aperture and get that shallow DOF that DSLRs are known for, but in the tradeoff you lose the ability to keep the subject in focus unless you have mastered on-the-fly focus. With some situations and lenses a small aperture is not going to be practical. To me it's just a really risky proposition to rely on DSLRs exclusively to get great-focused crucial material, for lots of reasons. But keeping a bride in-focus perfectly throughout a walk toward you from the back of the room down the isle is just one example. I'm bringing this up because I've had to deal with this issue personally more than a couple of times - in fact I just did a wedding where 10 bridesmaids came down the isle one-by-one, and I was up behind the officiant and having to keep them in focus throughout with my DSLR. Given the lens I had on the camera, the aperture I was stuck with due to lighting constraints, and other factors, it was very difficult to keep them in-focus as each one walked down the isle. I did pretty well, but some of my shots were not usable. A video cam with decent auto-focus would have made this much easier - not even an issue, usually. In this case I'm not sure I was doing myself or the bride any favors by getting hit/miss focus with the DSLR, and I do feel like I'm at least somewhat practiced and experienced working the DSLR focus. Woe to someone who isn't. I think these are very valid things to bring up when discussing the pros and cons of DSLRs for weddings. Are we really doing the best job for a bride by trying to use these cameras exclusively on wedding shoots, given how many variables can make for bad focus so easily? I'm not so sure. For some shots it's not a problem at all, and I totally agree that they have their place - a big place - in the toolkit. But exclusive use for weddings? I'm not sold, by a longshot. |
Bill, I feel you. When the first DSLR wedding footage came out and it was in and out of focus and had the micro-shakes and jello-effect and whatnot, I was on the side that called it out. I had people come back at me and say that the micro-shakes were part of the 'organic' look that they were going for. I didn't buy it then and I don't buy it now. Sloppy focus and all sorts of other things seem to get looked past and it's not right just because 'some' of the imagery looks good.
And Bill, you're also right that trying to ride the focus and follow a bride perfectly down the aisle is not likely to happen with DSLR's. But for how we shoot and edit, it's not an issue. We use multiple cameras (and plan on adding even more) so that we have preferred 'shot fields' if you will. In other words, for certain parts of the day we have a specific plan on where a particular camera is supposed to have critical focus. So for the bride coming down the aisle, we may plan out to use the wide shot initially, then cut to a medium shot of the groom waiting for her, then cut to a medium shot of her walking down the aisle (from behind), then cut to a close-up of her and dad from the front, then a wide as her and dad approach the end of the aisle, then a medium profile shot to show the hand-off of the bride to the groom. With this kind of detailed approach you can plan around the issues of filming with shallow DOF and instead make it work FOR you. I won't lie, it's more work and more stress. d;-) |
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Michael, from an aesthetic point of view, of course DSLR is the way to go. The images are beautiful - that's why we all use them. And any average video editor can probably put something together that hides or masks the vulnerabilities I was discussing. But those vulnerabilities still exist, whether we educate the client about them or not. It's about mitigating risk from a shooting point of view.
The more options you have in editing, the better your end-product will be. If your options are more limited because almost-in-focus or not-even-close focus taints 30 - 40% of your shots due to all of the aspects of the DSLR that have been discussed ad-infinatum, then your end-product will not be as good as if you had more usable material. You could play it safer with a DSLR by getting more or less static shots and probably squeeze more usable footage out of it than if you were moving around a lot. My wish list right now has a DSLR on it to use just as a stationary cam - I'd love it. I do think that doing stationary stuff with the DSLR is somewhat of an under-utilization of its capabilities, but whatever. They would make great stationary cams, even with the 12-minute limit on certain cameras. I do think, however that most people who get their first DSLR are NOT using it as a stationary camera, thus opening themselves up to those pesky focus issues. Overall, it's just something that anyone considering DSLRs should know about - that it is more difficult, and somewhat more risky for the average mortal to shoot with than videocameras. You have to make concessions and buy additional gear to really utilize them in a comparable way to videocams. This discrepancy will not be around for too long - but it does exist now. |
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Just thought I'd update this as so much has changed after one season shooting events with the T2i's:
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Tokina 11-16 mm f2.8 Sigma 20 mm f1.8 Nikon 35 mm f1.4 Pentax 50 mm f1.2 Olympus 55 mm f1.2 Rokinon 85 mm f1.4 Canon (IS) 70-200 mm f2.8 2 x Tokina 80-200 mm f2.8 Shopping for a deal on a Canon 135 2.0L... |
Wow how things change over time.
I just shot a wedding with a ex1r and a 5d II / 50 1.2 with a zacuto z finder and follow focus. I love my EX1r, but in low light its not as good, IMO not even close. I am not sure if I want to go all DSLR or not but here are a few things that makes me want to. First off, I would never shoot with one camera regardless of what kind it was. This makes a card going bad not as tragic as it is made out to be. The EX1r also uses solid state and can also go bad with over an hour of footage on it. Shallow dof looks great and also there are ways to give you more room for error. For example using a 5D II 35mm lens at f 2.8 15 foot from the couple gives you 10.5 feet of DOF. 50mm lens at f 2.8 15 foot from the couple gives you 4.7 feet of DOF. 100mm lens at f 2.8 30 foot from the couple gives you 4.6 feet of DOF 200mm lens at f 2.8 60 foot from the couple gives you 4.6 feet of DOF. So you can have some wiggle room for things like slow dancing etc, I do feel you need a 35mm lens to give you that cushion and use as a safe shot when trying to nail that close up shallow dof look, or at least I will use that when I am working solo. |
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