Reception Toasts...
 

The reception Toasts play a major part of my edit. I'm always looking for that "storytelling" audio that I can use throughout the day. But lately I have had so SO many obstacles that it's getting ridiculous.

My last wedding particularly... I asked the DJ to position the speakers in the center of the dance floor facing the head table. I prefer this style so I can grab an over the shoulder shot of the speaker onto the B&G. Opposing that is a Med CU of the speaker from the B&G perspective. I personally feel, camera angle wise, that this best sets the scene.

Long story short, he told me no... and that he preferred the speakers to stand behind the B&G at the head table. I've also been told the same thing by Photogs, and also venue coordinators.

Now here' why I personally HATE this setup...
1) Usually the background of the head table is either a window, or a solid wall. My last wedding included a fire-pull station framed right behind the couple.
2) the couple either turn their heads to view the speaker, or look deadly off into random space (straight ahead)
3)Not many opportunities to grab different angles.

So back to my story, I agree with the DJ... I setup my lights accordingly. Now this particular head table was set on a stage and elevated by 2 ft or so. So it took my assistant and I a few minutes to setup a key and backlight and ensuring that no crazy shadows would be casted by our tripods.
Here's what happened, the speeches came and the DJ positioned both speakers off of the staged head table and to the side by about 3 ft. Panic mode came, and I jumped into action to reframe/relight this important event. The first toast went well... The second was a timid MOH who would not step into the light (which was only a ft in front of her). I even heard the BM saying "step forward, step forward).

So here's my fix... Refuse to take "no" for an answer. In my opinion the toasts are the only thing that us as cinematographers can really capture. A photo is great, but how important can it be to the other vendors in the grand scheme of things? For me, a well written speech goes miles in the trailer and main edit.

I was also playing around with the idea of bring a mic stand. I got this idea from others on the board and really thought it was a winner. This would alleviate so many obstacles (pacing speakers, people not knowing where to stand, you can even hook up a backup lapel mic or recorder) For those of you who might already do this, do you guys receive any odd looks from guests/other vendors? any set back?

Steve

Re: Reception Toasts...
 

I use a lapel or two on a mic stand for every wedding in addition to getting the DJ's feed from his handheld mic on my mic stand. Haven't had any DJ's or guests have a problem with it yet. I did have one father of the bride who really wanted to be able to move around during his speech, so I laved him up individually and since he was all over the place and we were on tripods, it was tough to keep up with where he was going, changing focus, in and out of light, he'd turn his back to the camera, etc. I've had other instances where the best man or maid of honor would have preferred to be able to move freely during their speech, but they were okay with doing it from a set position. Most of the time no one has a problem with it, though.

If you use a mic stand, make sure to tape the DJ's mic to the mic stand, otherwise the speaker may take the handheld mic off the mic stand which then defeats the purpose. Sometimes if I get a chance I'll chat with the maid of honor and the best man and give them a couple tips, such as to make sure the mic is adjusted for their height, as sometimes it won't be properly adjusted and then I'll have a mic that is too high blocking all of my shots of their face.

I find it best to just take control of where the speeches are. Generally the DJ and bridal party don't care much (though I typically coordinate with the DJ), so I just pick the best positioning for my lighting and angles, and set the mic stand where I want it.

Re: Reception Toasts...
 

I guess I don't quite understand what the speakers have to do with anything... is it that they're in the shot? Or is it about the audio?

It's one thing to ask nicely, including a short explanation of yourself, but you are simply not going to be able to bully a DJ. Consider a simple RCA to headphone input and ask about getting the feed straight off the mixer, if they use the DJ's microphone. Every respectable mixer has a 'house' or 'monitor' output.

And I'm of the mind that if you're going to spotlight people, be prepared to change the light. They rarely cooperate because their mind is somewhere else, not on staging.

We use two cameras to shoot speeches, no lights, and have tried lapel mic and even just setting a Tascam on the table to pick up ambient. One camera relatively straight on, and another at an off angle, opposite the B&G (so if the B&G look at the speaker, they look towards our camera). That camera will also try and do crowd pick-ups.

Re: Reception Toasts...
 

Robert,
Stephen is talking about the people speaking at least I'm assuming that's what he's speaking about.
For me, I prefer the speaker to be next to or behind the B&G at the head table as I want them in the shot but I won't get into an argument if they aren't. I certainly will not argue with the DJ about that since he's the MC of the party and frankly I need him to be my besty at the reception so I will be well informed of what is going to happen next and when it's going to happen preferably with a bit of a heads up warning BEFORE it happens.

Re: Reception Toasts...
 

Don... for the very reason that you mentioned is why I folded on my last wedding. You need them to make the night so much easier. However I do feel that they shouldn't have much of a preference on where anyone stands.
Robert, yes I'm talking about the guests of the wedding who are giving the toasts. I do greatly appreciate the advice regardless.

Re: Reception Toasts...
 

I figured and I didn't mean to insinuate that you argue with the DJs. For me, I work with the same vendors a lot and I always "ask" the DJ where he's going to tell the toasters to stand and if I'm not happy with what he's going to do, (generally they know me by now and know my preference so that helps a lot) I make a gentle suggestion that he does it my way but honestly, at this point in time, for me, I really don't care. I cover with 1 camera, do the best I can and move on. (I'm usually thinking to myself, I wish these people would hurry up) ;-)

Re: Reception Toasts...
 

Instead of asking the DJ on the day of, why not tell your couple ahead of time that a podium is part of your requirements? This way, they will be the ones to request it during their wedding planning process and the venue/DJ will have the proper setup ready for you at the wedding.

Re: Reception Toasts...
 

Hi Long

We are lucky here ...almost every wedding venue has a podium and uses the house PA system (not the DJ's PA) for speeches so all I need do is clip a lav on the podium mic and I not only have good audio but the speaker is also "restrained" in movements ... I did however have a best man who decided to rip the podium mic off the mount and strut back and forth across the dance floor like a motivational speaker or a stand up comedian but those cases are rare!!

It can be tough sometimes if the speakers appear from all over and with that I think Don Bloom's trick of putting a drum mic in front of a PA is brilliant and at least you get consistent audio!

Chris

Re: Reception Toasts...
 

Around here they don't use podiums for toasts ever! In all of my years I've never seen one used nor do they use the house system. They either use the DJs or bands and use a HH wireless mic. the biggest problem I have had over the years is when non-professional speakers think they can hold a mic (usually an SM58 or similar) down at their belly button or out to arms length to one side or another and expect to be heard over the system.
That's one reason I use the 2 mic system as Chris alluded to. One or the other is gonna git 'em!

Re: Reception Toasts...
 

That's a funny way to describe it. The longer the cocktail hour (the drunker they get), the more of a problem the toasts often become. This also can make editing the toasts more difficult as well because of the 'stuff' that has to be cut out.

Re: Reception Toasts...
 

Hi Chris,

Most venues here also have a podium but sometimes they would for some reason not set it up if clients don't specifically request it so I always tell my couples that I need it to be arranged beforehand just so I don't need to worry about it on the day of.

I also have the occasional speaker who tries to rip the mic off the podium and go for a little walk but now I always wrap a little round of gaffer's tape to the mount to make sure both the microphone and my lavalier stay where they should be. It's always fun to see them try to rip it off and realize it's taped down and change their mind afterwards.

Re: Reception Toasts...
 

Here in the UK I don't think I've ever shot speakers using a podium in 5 years of filming weddings - Mainly it's a top table sometimes with a passed around mic into a house PA (often - even in large rooms without one so people struggle to hear) so I put a lav/mp3 recorder on all the speakers - mainly 3 but sometimes 4 or even 5.

Also what happens quite often is the room is laid out with circular tables and the speakers can be seated on several of these - this is pretty much a nightmare (visually) as the huge table top decorations can block my view so I have to move my tripod pretty quickly between speakers. ( I do have one TM900 on the B&G and another on wide also)

There is a trend now to have the speeches before the meal and as a solo shooter it means after filming the receiving line and entrance of the B&G I have only a few minutes to set up my other cameras and audio recorders before they launch into the speeches :/

Re: Reception Toasts...
 

Oh, wow, that's embarrassing. It took me til now to figure out speakers wasn't 'the DJ's speakers' but the people speaking. Ouch.

Almost 100% of the time here the toasts are done with a wireless mic, and the person speaking is at their own table. Parents are usually just in front of the head table, Best man/MOH on either side of couple. Most folks like this because it makes it all one focal point - the speakers and the B&G.

HOWEVER, most have a backdrop, so there is no fighting with background like you were talking about.

YES, chat up the DJ. If you know it will be a real problem, talk to the B&G in advance.

Re: Reception Toasts...
 

I always take it as it comes, spend to much time in the past trying to work out a better way to capture to see it always turns out different as expected. I just make sure I have everything covered to get good audio and have 2 handicams (with a large dof to capture speakers that start moving around) on a tripod standing by all evening.

Re: Reception Toasts...
 

I'm with Noa. I don't try and arrange things to suit my needs, other than to work with the DJ and photog in finding out the plan. When I'm dealing with a cooperative DJ, which is most the time, I will offer suggestions that give me the best shot, and often times my suggestions are followed, but not always.

Re: Reception Toasts...
 

Quick thought... I've attached what I think is Rob Adams' setup from his Creative Live workshop to the end of this post (please pardon the MS Paint dodginess).

Rob puts his cameras together, shooting back-to-back. Stephen mentions over-the-shoulder shots. But sounds like basic positioning of the speaker is the same: put them in middle of dance floor, have them face the bridal table.

Never tried this myself. But isn't it a drawback that the speaker has their back to half the audience? After all, they're not just talking to bride and groom, but to Uncle Bob who flew in from Canada just to be here.

That might be the big reason why speakers and DJs and MCs dislike this setup?

Re: Reception Toasts...
 

If I'm allowed to I usually move the podium to a position where everyone can see the speaker ..usually the bridal table is at the end of the room so the co-ordinators put the cake at one end and the podium at the other end and that almost always works well....I still might have to twist it a bit so I can get a clear shot with the main camera... This evenings wedding is in a marquee at a house so there ain't gonna be a podium there ..in those cases I usually get the speakers to come up and stand at the end of the bridal table and put a lav on a lighting stand or just drop a boundary mic on the bridal table..they have an awesome range for speakers even if they are up to 10' away!

Chris

Re: Reception Toasts...
 

Has anyone used those voice recorders that go for about $30 or so as a means of getting audio from the top table during the reception? If they were any good, it would be a great way of buying several and spreading them around.
I find the speeches/toasts a real audio challenge as sometimes the in-house mic and PA are so baaaad as to be unbelievable.
I currently use a Zoom H2 and a Sennheiser wireless lavalier on the top table and a Rode NTG shotgun on camera, and also the in built mic on my second cam (Z1).
Plenty of audio you'd think, but some free standing Zoom type mics would be an advantage. What do you guys think about the el cheapo voice recorders?

Re: Reception Toasts...
 

$100 Zoom H1 is as cheap as I'd get, just my two cents.

Re: Reception Toasts...
 

If I have no other option I strap a yamaha c24 onto the handle of the dj's mike with velcro tape.

Re: Reception Toasts...
 

Adiran the diagram is almost identical to my ideal setup... For the most part the speaker can move around (or at least face different directions as he speaks). For me I like a setup that can display the speaker and the couple are in the same room at the same time. So usually having a cam shooting a OTS shot onto one another works best for me.
Like I mentioned, The couples having to tweak their heads backwards in order to see the MOH or BM give a toast is a huge turn off for me. Also if you throw in an undesired background, which is what I seem to have a lot of lately.
I sometimes feel that you will never make it to the next level accepting "no" as an answer. In my last case, why does the DJ care where someone stands. In the very end both of the speakers stood in the shadows of the head table and were about 10ft from where the DJ had told me he was going put them. Only you can know how important an event will rank in your edit. If I have to throw a mild inconvenience in there one or two times during the day, then so be it.
I still believe my self to be a team player. I constantly help my photog's and DJ's out throughout the day. I always offer all of my reception footage to the DJ for letting me plug into their soundboard. That usually bridges most gaps...

steve

Re: Reception Toasts...
 

I use 3 x Zoom H1's on the top table routinely and they work great. Set the levels about 80-90% and you get lovely clear audio with a pleasing amount of ambient n.b. the speaker doesn't sound like a voiceover for the latest Hollwood blockbuster which I feel is an easy trap to fall into when using a lav very close to the mouth. I use little mini table-top stands / tripods or ebay short friction arms on mini clamps on the units and these work great as the recorders have 1/4"x20 sockets in the back unlike the Yamahas.

The two scenarios that can trip you up are 1) if the tables are on hard surfaces they will pick up vibrations and knocks unless you also use a suitable mic support and 2) if the speakers are located at sundry tables or round tables you risk being out of decent range. However I find that speakers are almost always very amenable to suggestions as to where they should position themselves - they really don't care one way or another so if a certain plan works best for the videographer they go with it.

A big advantage of using these standalone recorders is that there is no setup time needed - just race around placing them and job done.

I always have a shotgun mic on one cam as a failsafe to cater for the occasional maverick speaker.

Pete

Re: Reception Toasts...
 

If I would have used that option last wedding I would not have been able to use the audio recording, the couples table was positioned in the middle of the venue with all their guests around them. During the speeches they turned a full 360 deg to face everyone.

The only failsafe option for me to capture and good sound and good image as a solo shooter is to either strap a yamaha c24 to the mike's handle or better to connect a tascam dr40 to the dj's soundsystem, one of those 2 options always work. If I strap the c24 to the mike's handle I always hand over the mike myself asking them not to cover the c24's mikes with their hands.

Other options are placing a backup in front of the dj speackers or in front of the venue sound speakers, if they can be reached, they are often build into the ceiling so that is then not possible but sometimes a zoom h2 on a lightstand can reach them.

With 2 handicams on a tripod I can cover 2 angles if they move around and if I have the dr40 connected to the dj's table I can go and check the levels. Then I might bring in a 3th camera to get guests reactions or closeups while leaving both other handicams run unmanned.

Re: Reception Toasts...
 

Hey Noa, do you do anything particular to the Yamaha sound in post? Do you apply an equaliser effect or similar?

I've resorted to gaffering one to a microphone a few times, and what I'm finding is that the sound straight out of the device seems "thin", as if a few frequencies are missing. I think it might be worse on male voices than female. Also getting distortion when people are clapping. What do you think?

Re: Reception Toasts...
 

I always set the yamaha to handle the gain automatically, not an ideal situation but I never know how loud they will speak and how close they will hold the mike to their mouth, but I do prefer that then clipped sound, it does take some work in post manually adjusting the levels, in some occasions "the levelator" from The Conversations Network does a good job as well if you have clear voice sound with not much surrounding sound. I don't mind if the audio from such a recorder is "thin", it's still much better then any other solution (if you can't directly connect to the dj's board or don't have an option to mic the person speaking)
I always like to keep it simple, as a solo shooter that's often the only option you have, saves you from a lot of headache.

When people clap I replace that with the audio recording from the camera's, if they clap and the person continues to speak, well, that's bad luck. :) but the yamaha will clip for a short moment and then adjust the gain accordingly, if the clapping stops and they continue speaking it can take a few seconds before the yamaha picks up the gain again. Like I said it's not an ideal situation but considering the circumstances about the best I can do.

Re: Reception Toasts...
 

If I would have used that option last wedding I would not have been able to use the audio recording, the couples table was positioned in the middle of the venue with all their guests around them. During the speeches they turned a full 360 deg to face everyone.

That is a good case in point where, although it is a very rare type of setup in this area, it does benefit from intervention. I suggest that they stand in a more "suitable" place when making their speeches. If you present it to them as an advantage because otherwise the speaker will have their back to half the guests much of the time, then they are fine with it.

I do find that with video compared to stills you do need to think ahead much more. With stills its usually nothing more than manouvering around a few close knit chairs. Sometimes I get a table plan in advance and mark off where the various speakers are sitting and where the speeches will be delivered from; then ask for a change if necessary.

In this area there is seldom a suitable sound deck from which a feed can be taken, let alone the luxury of a staff member who knows how to access it. If they use a venue mic at all its often abandoned part way through. But sometimes a recorder close to a speaker (the equipment not the person) has saved my bacon.

Pete

Re: Reception Toasts...
 

I'm not Noa but I will tell you what I do. Unlike Noa I don't use auto as I set it to a low level that will never clip. With digital recordings unlike analogue as long as you have signal you can push the volume enormously in post to get the level acceptable. I do all the audio tweaking in Premiere & only resort to Audition if there is real rescue work necessary. I use the Dynamics filter which gives me a Compressor & a Limiter. If the sound is a little thin I will add a Bass booster too but the Compressor does most of the work & makes the audio rich & powerful.