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-   -   Paid in Fraudulent notes! (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/wedding-event-videography-techniques/518485-paid-fraudulent-notes.html)

Peter Rush August 23rd, 2013 07:15 AM

Paid in Fraudulent notes!
 
I rarely take cash but recently took a cash payment for a balance (I recall at the time of taking the deposit the client said 'I only deal with cash - don't like banks')

Well upon paying the money into my business account it turns out 3 20 notes are forgeries!!!! Completely unsure what to do at this stage - the client my be probably unaware these were forgeries but it would come down to her word against mine.

The bank have kept the notes and I'm now waiting for them to call and advise me what I can do - I'm not hopeful!

Chris Harding August 23rd, 2013 07:54 AM

Re: Paid in Fraudulent notes!
 
Hi Pete

I would still contact him immediately even if he was unaware of the status of the notes. The police would more than likely want to talk to him and find out where the cash came from so they could trace it back to it's source. Any decent person will refund you especially if the bank notifies them as well. Keep him in the loop ..at worst with some feedback from him, the forgers can be nabbed even if you lose some cash.

Chris

Don Bloom August 23rd, 2013 08:31 AM

Re: Paid in Fraudulent notes!
 
In the USA if you bank counterfeit cash and it's detected by the bank not only will you lose the cash but the bank is under no obligation to make good the amount lost. generally the federal authorities are involved and they WILL want to have a talk with you and IF you remember who gave you the cash they will want to talk to that person as well. If they were duped there is a chance they might make good there is also a chance they might not.
Again HERE there are many steps to be taken but the first one isn't to contact the person who gave you the money. I let the authorities handle that and THEN I contacted that person and fortunately for me, he was an upstanding guy and made good on the bad bills.
If I were you, I would ask the bank who they contacted in the police and talk to them to find out how to proceed.

James Manford August 23rd, 2013 11:53 AM

Re: Paid in Fraudulent notes!
 
I would say he wasn't aware who handed it to him ... I would still let him know though! and may be get a confirmation letter from the bank.

Rainer Listing August 23rd, 2013 05:18 PM

Re: Paid in Fraudulent notes!
 
OTOH you may have discovered why the client "only deals in cash".

Warren Kawamoto August 23rd, 2013 07:20 PM

Re: Paid in Fraudulent notes!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Rush (Post 1809695)
The bank have kept the notes and I'm now waiting for them to call and advise me what I can do - I'm not hopeful!

You're very lucky that they didn't call the police and arrest you on the spot, like how they do here! Whenever someone passes forgeries here, they arrest first, then ask questions later. The person receiving the money must always make sure it's genuine. If you think about it, that makes perfect sense.

James Manford August 24th, 2013 12:44 AM

Re: Paid in Fraudulent notes!
 
The police where you live are idiots then.

Why should an innocent person be arrested first ? ridiculous way of policing and serving the public.

I would hate to have unknowingly gone to the bank with a forged note only to be arrested ...

The fact i've now LOST that money is bad enough, let alone being arrested and publicly humiliated.

Peter Rush August 24th, 2013 03:25 AM

Re: Paid in Fraudulent notes!
 
Well I contacted the client who sounded genuinely mortified and said the notes came from a cashpoint (so she does use banks then!!) i told her my bank was giving me a receipt for the fake notes which i would email a scan of - she then called back a half hour later to say her bank would re-imburse her upon her showing them the receipt from my bank.

I'm surprised that the bank don't involve the police - all they do is return the notes to the bank of england - anyway no more payments in cash for me!

Steve Bleasdale August 24th, 2013 04:04 AM

Re: Paid in Fraudulent notes!
 
Pete just been paid 1295 in 50 notes a month ago, going to check them as she has not contacted me since I filmed the wedding and I am suspicious cheers...

Don Bloom August 24th, 2013 05:16 AM

Re: Paid in Fraudulent notes!
 
Actually they don't arrest you but they will "ask" you to come down to the station and answer some questions which frankly sounds quite reasonable.
Folks I've been thru it so I'm not assuming anything here. They question you and anyone else that might be connected with the passing of the bills although in 99% of the cases no arrest is made at least none that I was ever aware of and yeah, you are out the money. I've never heard of any bank making good on the counterfeit bills for anyone and BTW, in the USA, it's a FEDERAL CRIME, which involves the Secret Service although it starts at a local level.

James Manford August 24th, 2013 07:30 AM

Re: Paid in Fraudulent notes!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Rush (Post 1809777)
Well I contacted the client who sounded genuinely mortified and said the notes came from a cashpoint (so she does use banks then!!) i told her my bank was giving me a receipt for the fake notes which i would email a scan of - she then called back a half hour later to say her bank would re-imburse her upon her showing them the receipt from my bank.

I'm surprised that the bank don't involve the police - all they do is return the notes to the bank of england - anyway no more payments in cash for me!

No way would a cash point issue fake bills, and no way would the bank put it back in to circulation.

I just can't believe that.

Don Bloom August 24th, 2013 08:22 AM

Re: Paid in Fraudulent notes!
 
Banks obviously are not infallible and if there is a bill here and a bill there or they are very high quality and the teller or counter or whoever is handling the money doesn't see it's counterfeit (which if it's a high quality fake) can and does happen, it will continue in circulation until someone realizes it's a fake.
While it's not a purposeful failing on the banks part (hopefully) it is human failing that can and does happen. Nothing one can do about it. A really good fake is hard to spot unless you're an expert and the majority of people that work in banks are not experts in detecting a really good counterfeit bill.
Just sayin'.

Roger Gunkel August 24th, 2013 09:32 AM

Re: Paid in Fraudulent notes!
 
I rarely get paid in cash, but when I do, it is highly unlikely that I would spot a counterfeit note note unless it was glaringly obvious like no metallic thread or different paper. I doubt that most ordinary people would notice a good fake unless they were trained and used to looking for them.

Also, if I banked at my normal bank and a couple of notes were fake, it is highly unlikely that the bank would suspect me of trying to pass fakes, then call the police to have me arrested. I would expect them to draw my attention to the fact, and refuse to accept them. On the other hand if I went into a strange bank where I wasn't known and tried to deposit a number of faked bills, then I would expect a different reaction.

Roger

Warren Kawamoto August 24th, 2013 11:09 AM

Re: Paid in Fraudulent notes!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by James Manford (Post 1809774)
The police where you live are idiots then.
Why should an innocent person be arrested first ?

Every forger will claim they're innocent, that they don't know how they ended up with the money. My guess is that once arrested, the police and FBI have probable cause (because they have the fake money in hand) to investigate further and to obtain search warrants if necessary, or to detain a person for further questioning. Being arrested doesn't mean you're charged (yet) with any crime.

Here, it is very common for merchants to use test pens to make sure the money they receive is real.

Dave Partington August 24th, 2013 12:27 PM

Re: Paid in Fraudulent notes!
 
I've never liked being paid in cash and have always told people I'd rather then pay by online banking.

I dread the situation of dodgy notes so feel bad for you. It sounds like you're not going to lose out on this one but it could have been much much worse.

James Manford August 24th, 2013 12:40 PM

Re: Paid in Fraudulent notes!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren Kawamoto (Post 1809822)
Every forger will claim they're innocent, that they don't know how they ended up with the money. My guess is that once arrested, the police and FBI have probable cause (because they have the fake money in hand) to investigate further and to obtain search warrants if necessary, or to detain a person for further questioning. Being arrested doesn't mean you're charged (yet) with any crime.

Here, it is very common for merchants to use test pens to make sure the money they receive is real.

As long as they arrest with a bit of common sense rather than for every case, it's fair enough.

Being arrested for handing over 3 fake 20 notes out of a 1000+ being deposited into a business account is waste of tax payers money and plain silly. But if he came in with a considerable amount of fake notes, it would be fair to arrest to question and gather more intel to where the notes came from.

Dave Partington August 24th, 2013 12:45 PM

Re: Paid in Fraudulent notes!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by James Manford (Post 1809830)
As long as they arrest with a bit of common sense rather than for every case, it's fair enough.

Being arrested for handing over 3 fake 20 notes out of a 1000+ being deposited into a business account is waste of tax payers money and plain silly. But if he came in with a considerable amount of fake notes, it would be fair to arrest to question and gather more intel to where the notes came from.

Though to be fair.... those questions could easily be asked and answered without having to be arrested ;)

Byron Jones August 25th, 2013 09:19 AM

Re: Paid in Fraudulent notes!
 
I have worked in banking for seven years working as a teller, head teller, and vault teller at three different banks (due to advancements). I have to agree with Don that it is possible to slip a really good one past a teller, but it is EXTREMELY unlikely. Tellers go through extensive training in counterfeiting including samples of some of the best. I know countries use different notes and some may harder to fake then others, but I put the chances of fake bills slipping past tellers in the USA at less than 1%. These people handle larger quantities of bills in one day then most people even imagine. Tellers can tell a fake by sight without touching it and by touch with their eyes closed. Put one in a stack of a 100 good ones and let them count the bills with their eyes closed and they will pull it out of the pile. The chances of a fake being automatically dispensed are even smaller as all of those bills are counted by two different tellers. There are also counting machines used that do a pretty good job at spitting out fakes as well. Needless to say, I don't buy the clients story. They might not be the criminal, but if not, I bet the notes came from somewhere else and got mixed in. In regards to the police being called, that would never happen to a customer known by the bank tellers or even an unknown person that has an account at the bank. It blows my mind that those from Hawaii said they are arrested first, questioned later. The ocean between us makes a huge difference evidently. Normal protocol calls for confiscating the notes immediately without reimbursement, recording the date and time the bills were taken by the bank. The bank will never take the loss. It is your fault for taking the bill. They won't let you keep it, because that's illegal. The information from the customers identification and where they claim to have received the fakes from is also recorded. This report is sent with the notes to the FBI. The local police are never informed by the teller. The customer is then contacted by an agent, some times many days later, and depending on the circumstances, they may never even see an agent personally. Of course the amount of the counterfeit makes a big difference on how hard they pursue it, and if it matches others from the same area or time period. I have caught several fakes over the years so I am speaking from experience.

James Manford August 25th, 2013 09:40 AM

Re: Paid in Fraudulent notes!
 
Yay, someone with experience! thanks for the input Byron ... sums up my thoughts as well that the guy who apparently deals in cash only acquired it from something he must of sold himself on a cash only basis! I wasn't buying his story either.

Nigel Barker August 26th, 2013 07:11 AM

Re: Paid in Fraudulent notes!
 
There are differences between our continents.

Our UK & Euro currency has pretty sophisticated anti-counterfeiting measures with raised print and high quality paper, watermarks, holograms and fluorescent inks.

BTW while there might be tax advantages in being paid cash the possibility of being given a large sum in fake notes has always put me off accepting payment this way.

Peter Rush August 27th, 2013 03:18 AM

Re: Paid in Fraudulent notes!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by James Manford (Post 1809797)
No way would a cash point issue fake bills, and no way would the bank put it back in to circulation.

I just can't believe that.

Google it james - many many people are reporting atm dispensing fake notes and there are cases of the banks making good. In my experience here i was banking several cheques and one cash deposit of nearly 700 (from one wedding/client) it was in this bundle that the 3 fake notes were discovered. It's rare a client wants to pay in cash and in future i'll insist on bacs or cheque!


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