Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

Its the wedding fair season here in the UK. And I have just got my first couple of bookings from the most recent fair I have done. So its a definite plus so far.

My question is: How many of you guys are still having a shot at the fairs?

I used to do a lot,and my bookings where coming in well. Then in 2012 I did no fairs. I have had a great 2013 but 2014 aint looking as good as it could so far. Maybe because I did no fairs in 2012.

How are 2014 booking looking for the UK guys?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

As you know Matty I have not done wedding fairs for four years now, they are a waste of time. They go for cakes, invitations ect ect. Even my wife has stopped doing them for dresses. Last time we spoke I was selling my business but I have decided to carry on in this game as I am up by 60% on the past two years, and my football job could not compete with that... maybe that's because of the shop for sure but if it was not for the shop I would be defiantly down on the usual regular bookings, however looking at my bookings for next year, 9 up to now are referrals from other clients...Liverpool I am afraid is a pre £1000 place, they do not want to spend anymore, I did a survey with all my clients the past 5 years and they all said they would not pay more than £995 for a wedding video.. God knows how the other parts of the country are getting £2000//£2995..

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

I'm with you Steve. Most of the people around here seem to top out at £995 now, whereas I used to be able to get £1400-£1800. It's partly why I'm taking a break from weddings for video. I'll do them if some one asks (i.e. a referral) and are willing to pay a rational rate. But I'm not working all day with two crew for £500 a day like so many people seem to be being quoted from people also willing to travel 80-100 miles down from Newcastle to do it (I have several experiences of those quotes coming in and several people actually doing it).

In terms of wedding fairs, I feel that they are in a bit of a slump right now. We did a study across 3 years of bookings where we closely tracked how they found us and how much they spent, vs how much it cost us.

We found that 29% came from wedding fairs, 35% came via google and the balance via referrals.

On average the clients found at a wedding fair spent more than the clients who found us via google, but once you deducted the cost of attending the weddings fairs (not even including the time spent there) it almost wiped out that difference. The best paying jobs always came in via referrals.

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

Since I'm taking a break I've turned away all my 2014 potential bookings so far, so I suppose some other people in the area will be 'up' ;)

I've talked to a lot of photographers over the summer that each said more or less the same thing. 2013 was slightly down on 2012, but OK, yet bookings for 2014 are all DOWN at this point. It seems that even for photography people are booking later and later.

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

@Steve: Glad to hear your sticking around. Am in agreement that brides in our area are not to keen to flash the cash as willingly as they used to. The effects of the recession and market economy on the whole.

There are many new companies coming into the market who are willing to work for peanuts. But there are others who are pushing into lucrative markets. I think to stay relevant in the long term it may take the leap of faith and go for the upper end of the market, where they still have the cash to splash out.

There are less companies servicing that market.... so maybe that's the place to be? Time will tell.

Am giving a whole lot of wedding fairs my cash this year, so I will report back my findings when they are done.

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

Steve, like we said in the Society. Your clients wont pay more than £995 but with higher prices you attract different clients.

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

I have always exhibited at a number of wedding shows each year for the last 30 years. I am very selective though, avoiding small hotels doing their first one and big national or regional ones at vastly inflated prices guaranteeing hundreds of brides. You certainly get hundreds of brides, all totally confused by the hundreds of exhibitors.

The ones I attend, are ones that I have learned from experience give good results and I never pay more than £200 under any circumstances. My first Autumn one this year was September 1st in Newmarket, near me, it cost £165 and had 420 brides through the doors. There was only one other video company and I have already taken 2 confirmed bookings from it for next year. Enquiries tend to come in for up to a year after each wedding show.

Last year we increased our wedding shows up to 8 from the usual 5 and this year was our best year ever. 2014 is already up by 30% on the same time last year and we are increasing our Autumn/Spring shows to 10. 70% of our weddings are from referrals and just about all the rest from wedding shows, although some of the increase in weddings for this year and next is due to our adding stills and video as a joint package. We are also increasing the cost of the add on stills package from Jan 1st, so will be earning more from each joint package wedding.

The least number of wedding bookings that I have picked up from a wedding show over the years was 1 and that still made a profit even allowing for the show cost and expenses. The most bookings directly related to 1 show was 9 bookings, so for me they have definitely paid off.

Roger

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

Danny I have tried that, it does not work in Liverpool, like Luton, but when you go high end it may work it may not but with no contacts for 6 months at £1795 market I decided to stick to £1295 and £995 and if they want the lot then £1495. But im with Dave, why should I do things different, have all the stress teach another videographer all for peanuts from Brides who don't even care anyway...Steve

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

I agree with Steve that increasing the price of the service in this area would not work.

But there are many more areas. So I guess its about getting the service to the clients you want at a price you want to an area they will buy. If this makes sense???

Little baits and little hooks get little fish. Big baits and big hooks, land big fish, whilst the little fish just nibble at it.

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

I see many companies charging £3000 - £4000 for ONE day (10 hours) DSLR Cinematography ... around Manchester & London respectively (I have a few companies in my head).

Now when I look at their examples of work, it's good ... but i've seen guys that charge peanuts compared to them produce a similar level of work.

Why are they getting business? It HAS to be referrals and the image they portray ... they make themselves look like the Lamborghini / Rolls Royce of the wedding film industry attracting rich clients.

I don't think you can just transition into that, especially if you've been charging £995 now all of a sudden bump your prices up to 3-4k.

You need a new brand name, a couple of extravagant venues and rich clients lined up to provide those lucrative trailers to plaster on your website.

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

This is a well-rehearsed subject in the Stills world and has been discussed to death on member only forums. Some of the conclusions may be relevant here.

The number of photographer competitors is far higher than for video. Video also lends itself to wedding fairs. I would therefore think that with video, if a client is minded to have video, the odds are strong that you'll book a high percentage. Either you or the one other bloke :- )

As regards the profile of clients who attend, colleagues experience has overwhelmingly been that they are price shoppers. And the photographer competitors exhibiting are usually newbies or have a very poor web presence - in other words its sh$t or bust with the wedding shows. Nothing wrong with price shoppers if you're in the mainstream rather than in a niche market; just comes down to "some will ... some won't ... so what ... next".

£1800 leaves you becalmed in the middle of no-where. Its perceived neither as good value or high end. Your UK price must certainly start with a 2 and be closer to a 3 to be perceived as high end. Whether you deliver high end is a whole other subject of course. Beware of being a slave to high ticket prices without due regard to your costs and opportunity costs. At the high end you will certainly be involved in much more travel plus the best part of an extra day scripting and storyboarding - a day when you could otherwise be shooting a separate mainstream market wedding. And you will need extra staff with all the associated equipment and backup. You are also likely to need to budget for hip premises in a hip area.

You will also be dependent to some extent on venue recommendations and increasingly these have to be paid for either directly or indirectly through advertising scams. Wedding co-ordinators can have a high staff turnover and overnight your source can dry up.

In the stills world we tend to exchange personal information quite readily. You may be surprised how unbusy many shooters who quote high prices actually are. A close neighbour has only shot 4 weddings this year and has just 1 for next year. Credit cards maxed out. Another has just divorced. Keep your eyes open.

Unlike Roger I do not make a point of meeting clients though like Roger I don't have videos online as my product is usually long-form so doesn't suit that method. I will meet clients when they wish to meet and they nearly always come to me - some very long distances. Others I send sample discs to if they want. I have a lot of clients who are based abroad or live a very long way from my base or from their chosen venue; if I insisted on meeting I would not get as many bookings. The one I'm processing at the moment is a New York based financial journalist. She found me online and we didn't meet until the wedding day. By co-incidence the guests included a bride and groom I had shot 10 years ago but no-one knew that until we met :- )

Pete

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

James is bang on. Something we have seen is that there are people with great talent, but can't run a business. To be successful you either have to do it all OR, bring on people who are experts. We don't do our own branding any more, or website or accounting. We have editors, shooters and marketers. Experts in their respective fields.

I see a lot of people here charging the same as shoot it yourself.

Often people find themselves competing, nay, fighting with other videographers for business and decide he only way to win us to be the cheapest. They can then beat you by going cheaper, you can beat them by undercutting them even more.

We know of plenty who work up north and charge £2k plus. To enter the higher prices it doesn't matter how good your work. You could be the absolute best in the world but without the right image, marketing and a brand it means nothing.

Consider getting a branding and business consultant involved. It costs money but its getting to be that way if you want to remain in the business now.

Remember, you need to compete on a number of levels now. Not just your work.

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

Oh and Steve, ignore my society comment. Thought you were someone else. We ran a training event last year and part of it was how to go from sub £1k to the higher prices.

To give you an idea, it's about creating a brand. Something people want.

How many here own iPhones? Most I bet. Why though? Other phones are cheaper, on paper do the same thing. It's all about brand. The iPhone is an object of desire, something we want and therefore are willing to pay more than if it was something we needed. We end up buying with our hearts and not our heads.

If your looking for a plumber, which is something you need then you go for the cheapest. You need to change what you offer from a need, to a want or better, a desire.

You then also need to forget about your current clients. Of course they would only pay £995! If they were willing to pay more then they would have gone elsewhere. At a higher price point you attract different clients, but you need the product and the brand to do so.

We've attended all sorts of workshops and seminars and it quickly became clear, it's all about the brand.

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

Great advice there Danny. Wise words indeed.

My mantra for here on is branding, branding, branding.......

I have known this for sometime but not had it spelt out to me so clearly.

Its also tough to effectively start again so to speak with a whole new plan of attack when the one I have now works to some extent.

I will mull on your advise over several pints of real ale.

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

It's not just about putting up your prices to get wealthier clients. The guys that are charging several Ks for their weddings are advertising in the very expensive glossy mags for £1000 a pop, investing in lots of top quality gear and probably maintaining shops/offices and employing extra personnel.

At the end of the day it's not about how much you charge, but more about how much you end up with.

Roger

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

Yep,it's all to do with business.

What is a professional videographer?

I've always thought it's some one who does the job FULL TIME. It's his only source of income.

There are many forms of professional camera men shooting sports, corporate, weddings, movies etc! they are all pro's because it's their day job.

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

This is a bit off topic ...

But I just re-read Danny's point about hiring business consultants, marketers, cameraman and editors.

That's all great isn't it if you have a proper business plan in place and the resources to do so.

But what does the SOLO shooter do ? I know how I started in this ... I had a day job, saved up around 15k and spent it all on my equipment, editing machine etc.

How does the solo shooter improve his brand image so that he can charge more ?

I know of plenty of ways I could market myself if I had a team of people. But can't think of anything as a solo shooter.

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

Hi James,

I've haven't seen a website or anything of yours, so you may already be doing this.

I think branding should be something you work on regardless of your business size. Everything you show a potential bride should be high quality and have the same look. From a website, to the business cards, to how the packages. That by itself is going to give a business a higher quality image.

I'm sure higher someone may yield better results, but it's something that you can do on your own and already increase your brand image.

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

If you want to remain a solo shooter, then your options are a little more limited, but so are your overheads. The best way to command a higher fee as a solo shooter is to maintain a high brand image, produce good quality work and create a demand for your services through recommendation. It takes time and remember that one bad job can destroy months and years of hard work, so always make sure you produce good quality work no matter what.

Roger

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

Spot on Roger and I have done 27 wedding videos this year, yes not the top end clients but sufficient to make money get them done and get them sent. I now look at the money making side of things rather than glossy make overs...

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

That,s pretty much how I see it Steve, you could have filmed half the number of weddings for twice the money, but you would also have half as many people seeing your work for future referrals. There's a diminishing returns aspect to wedding video, the more you charge, the more time, expense and people you need to put into it.

There is no point in doing it if it makes no money, unless it is just a hobby that pays for itself, while you pay the bills with a conventional job.

Roger

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

Why not do twice as many weddings at half the price so you can reach twice as many brides for future referrals?

It seems like there is this impression that the more you charge the less you actually make. I don't think that is the case. You may need a second (or third) videographer, but you're price increase should more than pay for that added expense.

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

As I said previously, there is a point where there are diminishing returns which varies according to your overheads. Halving the price for double the referrals doesn't work unless you are already over charging. You can of course charge as high a price as you want, but above a certain point, the more you charge, the more turnover you need to sustain the levels of personnel, equipment, premises and promotion. There is also the increased hours that need to be put into setting up, breaking down, editing, manning a shop/studio and the responsibilities that come with it. Every business is different and striking the balance is the difference between success and failure.

My point really is that a solo shooter charging a moderate price, can end up with a personal income equal to someone running a high end company charging many times more, but needing to maintain a high overheads level. Having owned an audio/video production company with 17 employees in the past and now being a husband and wife business, I turn over a fraction of what I did in the past, but have a comfortable personal income and none of the stress or time and financial commitments.

It's all about what you want from it and the direction you want to go.

Roger

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

Spot on the last couple remarks. I used to have three guys, all angles covered, paid them £150 each, had to much footage, more time editing, more equipment more this and that. In the end the cost returns where not as good as if I was double my price. Now, I stick to me only, I do not have to teach anyone or tell them they are sat down or they have got the wrong shots, simple hd dslrs and a cam, now I am like a whirlwind but discreet, I see everything coming first hand and I am ready.. I have my story and I shoot to that. Short form feature films they book I shoot to that, long form I shoot to that... My profits are good, if I went up market branded costing a fortune and waited for work that may not come in. I have watched a lot of high end guys this year that used to be booked solid now I see they only do 5/6 a year admittedly the £2995 market. But don't forget they have to sort out their wedding planner with funds as that's how they got the job in the first place and maybe their expensive adverts in the top bridal magazines (tried that). Times are changing, cameras are becoming point and shoot, the clients will take advantage of that, video is the last thing they book if they have a camera in the family and he is decent they will use him for photos and video. I think we as creative people will always get a few jobs but its getting harder as cams get more advanced.

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

The point I was trying to make was that you used to be able to be a solo shooter and command a decent fee. You didn't need branding or any of that, it was solely about the work.

But things have changed. Those who have invested in branding have changed the landscape and yes, overheads are higher for staff, offices and c100's but its what we belive needs to be done to remain competitive in this new age.

Cars never used to need stereos, power steering. They never had to run tv ads to sell cars but then someone came along and did. The others had to then do the same to stay in the game.

Now. Back on topic ;) wedding fairs. That £180 you spend on a wedding fair (plus flyers, presentation gear and your very precious time) could be spent in other ways which would give you much greater reach and better returns. It may seem obvious that spend £180 and get 2 bookings at £1k makes sense. But what if you could spend £50 and generate 5 sales? All without leaving the sofa.

Fairs can work but are it he most efficient.

Did the national wedding show once. £5k and not a worthwhile return. Better suited to people selling shiny things.

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

Agree on the wedding fairs Danny, waste of time...Intrigued on how to get those sales you mention at that £50 price?

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

Google ad words?

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

Think Danny was just saying work SMARTER, not Harder.

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

Google ad words not good Matt, I am top of the tree anyway so that's a waste of money and I have work coming in anyways and looking good for 2014.My point is do I go high end and do a few a year or wack them out at a fair price.

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

All depends what you want ...

If you've got wife and kids you might fancy devoting more time to them ... which means high end / few weddings a year would suit your lifestyle.

Otherwise regular work is probably best. Stick to what you're doing.

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

cheers Jmes

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

**##!!! 5K for a wedding show!!!!!!! I'm not surprised you are not a fan of wedding shows if you spent 5K on one and didn't get a worthwhile return. The National Wedding Show is not for booking things, it's for walking round and seeing what you might like at your wedding while being totally overwhelmed by the huge number of exhibitors.

If I had 5K to spend on a wedding show, it would pay for 25 shows at a max of £200 each. That would bring me an average of 5 bookings per show over a few months from each one. Total bookings about 125, giving a profit afterl expenses of about £80K. I would consider that a worthwhile return.

Roger

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

There is another down side to the high end fewer weddings of course. If you do 40 weddings at £1000 each and two cancel out, you lose £2k, but if you do 10 weddings at £4000 and two cancel out you lose £8k. Of course it's all just juggling figures to make a point and 'Not life as we know it Jim" :-)

Roger

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

For wedding fairs, it's all about which fair it is. In my town, we have three. Two are rubbish - hundreds of brides who are only there for the fashion show and door prizes. The third is cheaper ($400), much smaller (42 brides last time I was in it), BUT is run by a high-end photographer, so the brides tend to be of a better quality. For starters, they're all actual brides, and they tend to be looking for the right vendor, not the cheapest. Last time, out of 42 brides, I booked 5.

As for marketing and branding, it shouldn't matter if you're a solo shooter or not. My company is just me and my wife. I'm actually a 15 year veteran MC/DJ, she's been shooting two years. I do a fair amount of work to make sure our website does well in the search engines, but also so that our marketing is done correctly. This year I will DJ 32 weddings, she'll shoot 16. We are doing some changes because we want to hit 40/20.

Basic things like having an identity: "The Smart Choice for the Savvy Bride."
and calls to action: "Call us at XXX-XXX-XXXX"
Selling emotionally, not logically: Fear, fun, empathy, sense of belonging, pride

That's all the marketing and branding is. It answers the questions: WHO should hire you? WHY should they hire you? HOW do they hire you or WHAT do they do next?

Even the basics of your unique selling proposition: Cheapest, best, best value, most reliable, personal relationships, et al.

RNB Weddings

Re: Who's doing wedding fairs?
 

Of course the upside is that you did 10 weddings instead of 40. Or if you decide to do one more you four times as much. It goes both ways.