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-   -   The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/wedding-event-videography-techniques/518935-music-bed-songfreedom-questions.html)

Jeff Harper September 13th, 2013 09:45 PM

The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
I intend to purchase music from The Music Bed, but am concerned that even with a license my videos can be taken down. Has this happened to anyone, and if so how was it resolved?

I don't want to post a highlight video for a customer to find it's been removed for infringement.

Peter Rush September 14th, 2013 01:48 AM

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
I've found with Music Bed that, even though you have paid for the licence - You Tube recognizes it as 'matched 3rd party content' and will allow it, but the link won't work on mobile devices such as phones and tablets.

Not had a problem with vimeo though.


Jeff Harper September 14th, 2013 12:44 PM

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
Thanks Peter. Your post is extremeley helpful, because I have been considering moving my videos to You Tube, for mobile purposes. Vimeo does not show up on mobile devices always, it's hit and miss, and is a well known issue in their forum.

I'm suddenly without an idea where to take my videos. I will consider Dailymotion, very watchable on mobile devices, but I have no idea how thing happen there when copyright issues arise.

Jeff Harper September 14th, 2013 01:44 PM

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
I'm finding a mix of information, Vimeo may not be as problematic on mobile as I first thought. I have more research to do!

Byron Jones September 14th, 2013 06:42 PM

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
I have been happy with Vimeo. Works fine on mobile devices as far as I have seen. I know it works with iOS devices.

Jeff Harper September 14th, 2013 07:34 PM

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
I tried playing videos from my Vimeo channel today (for the first time) on my Android, it was not a good experience. On the other hand, I previously have played many Youtube videos, always works fine. Dailymotion always perfect. My reading on the subject showed me that Vimeo and mobile often do not play nice. In the Vimeo forums many threads about this issue, it's a bit alarming.

Byron Jones September 14th, 2013 07:39 PM

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
Sorry. Not much a fan of the android OS. I watch videos on Vimeo daily on a iPhone and iPad. Never had a problem. Nice to know that other devices have issues with it.

Roger Van Duyn September 16th, 2013 07:14 AM

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
I guess it depends what the customer will watch the videos on. Because my customers couldn't watch their videos on their devices, Vimeo lost my company as a customer. I still have the free account, but did not renew the paying account. YouTube works better for my needs. Business is too hard to succeed in to not be customer focused.

As for music licensing, sometimes the YouTube automated scans mess up and you need to follow the dispute process. I think the scan matches wave forms or something like that. Wish it matched meta data so you could just put your licensing information in somewhere.

Jeff Harper September 16th, 2013 07:40 AM

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
Byron, personal preference of one smartphone OS vs another is not the topic. Nevertheless, the Apple iOS is on less than 16% of smartphones, and is struggling to hold market share. Android's share of the market is likely over 65% and gaining, at my last reading, so it is essential as professionals we understand which hosting services work for our customers.

The chances of a customer or potential customer being an Android user are what, triple? that of being on an iphone, so if a video sharing site is problematic for Android users, it's a big deal.

What I'm taking from this thread so far is: Songfreedom tunes will trigger a sort of violation that disable smartphone viewing of videos on Youtube. This issue does not exist on Vimeo, but Vimeo's player is hinky on Android.

So, this leaves me with no choices at all. I need to find another solution. I hear dailymotion does digital fingerprinting similar to Youtube, so I'm not sure if the same issue with Smartphones will exist as with Youtube. I will have to create a video and upload it and see what happens.

Jeff Harper September 16th, 2013 07:45 AM

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
Is there great royalty free music that does not trigger copyright violations?

Robert Benda September 16th, 2013 08:36 AM

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
Jeff, the sites mentioned, like theMusicBed.com don't trigger a violation, only a 'matched 3rd party content' notice. That's very different.

Jeff Harper September 16th, 2013 08:41 AM

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
Thanks for clarifying, Robert. The problem remains, unfortunately. How do I provide great music for a video while knowing that my customers can view it on their smartphone? This is of great importance to me. I am having a new website designed.

It's true that this can be adjusted after the final design, but I want to have this ironed out beforehand. This is so my web designer knows what he is supposed to do, and can test it. I don't want him to do spend time figuring out which works, it could incur additional time and charges. Mainly, I just want it to work out of the box, not fuss with it.

Roger Van Duyn September 16th, 2013 09:57 AM

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
Jeff, the matched third party notice isn't just for smart phones. It happens for YouTube in general. It's automated and actually occurs nearly simultaneously during upload to YouTube, probably during that short processing phase between upload and the video being ready for view. When you get the matched third party content notice, just follow the protocol. It happens with all kinds of music, even Smart Sound stuff. You Tube has done a good job, so far at least, whenever it's happened to videos I've uploaded and the notice is quickly taken away.

However, sometimes, the notice will appear again months later on the same video, when other YouTube partners music content gets added to the automated algorithms. I've heard the production companies themselves also have automated programs (spiders?) they run themselves in an effort to protect their intellectual property. I know Stock Footage companies like Getty Images do. However, Stock Footage algorithms tend to be based on metadata. Otherwise, there would be mismatches galore on every photo of the Statue of Liberty or Mount Ranier due to image similarity, like waveform similarities on music.

Do you have any idea how many different versions of say, Tchaikovsky's Swan Lake there are? Several different production houses that have versions of it are now working with YouTube, and even though the licensed version from Smart Sound was cleared after the first upload, I've had to re-clear the same video again due to more production houses getting on board with YouTube. After a while, it might just make sense to ignore the 3rd party notice and leave it up, until a take down is threatened or something. Naturally, a violation notice would be something NOT to ignore.

That's why I normally leave the music out when I upload wedding excerpts to YouTube. Just a minute of the vows, or the kiss, or cutting the cake etc. Too much hassle.

Things are getting more complicated every day. The YouTube algorithms match up anything that's close. It's automated. It doesn't read the text you enter when you upload. When it matches, you either ignore it or follow the protocol YouTube has set up. I wish things were less complicated.

As for the smart phones, that's yet another issue complicating things for us. If our customers can't view their videos, they aren't happy. So we need to do the best we can to please our customers if we want to stay in business.

Sorry to go on like this, but I've found these issues quite aggravating to deal with for the past 4 years. But I've found that the issues aren't going away, so I just do the best I can to rationally deal with them.

Funny thought: What does YouTube do when several different partners all claim to have found a match to their music on the same video? Highest bidder? First come, first serve? I had 3 or 4 different orchestras listed as matched third party content for the Smart Sound Swan Lake that I used in a video, but stretched out over time. I'd hate to be working in YouTube's complaint department dealing with all this.

There's a similar thread going on in the Taking Care of Business section.

Jeff Harper September 16th, 2013 11:07 AM

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
Thanks Roger, very helpful. I understand your feelings about this issue. I'm not a fan of the copyright rules, not just because of this situation.

Anyway Roger, when I follow the protocol, is my video with music playable on a smart phone?

Roger Van Duyn September 16th, 2013 11:23 AM

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
Hi Jeff. They should play correctly. YouTube has made a big push towards smart phones. Even the new recent guidelines for the layout for YouTube channels are geared toward everything looking right on computer, tablet, smart phone, and television.

So, I had to spend the time a month or so ago to redesign my company YouTube Channel within those guidelines. YouTube sent an email saying the old look was going away by a certain date about two weeks from the time I received the email.

Keeping the web site and YouTube channel up to date is taking more time than it used to. Wish I could afford to hire someone for it.

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