Do you use lights?
 

I'm never quite sure what to tell couples when they ask me this. What do you guys say?

I don't understand, firstly, the reason for the question. Do they have this nightmare in their head of a sweaty camera operator running around at the reception deer-in-headlighting all the guests? Or are they worried, conversely, that you don't use lights and that their images will turn out like nightvision?

And how do you explain to them that lights are necessary, especially when the videographer down the road has apparently promised that he/she doesn't use any lights?

Re: Do you use lights?
 

I don't use lights but am planning to get one on a lightstand only for the first dance where they often kill all lights and have only mood light from the DJ who happen to like the color red.
My current camera set up can manage without light 95% of the time but it's the remaining 5% that can ruin the footage, like last wedding where they, in a candle lit venue, decided to kill all light during the couple first entrance. I had to shoot at 6400 Iso and put neatvideo to work to make it look decent, a 5dmark3 would have been a better option then but you use what you have :)

Re: Do you use lights?
 

The use of lights is a really difficult issue for me. I think I'm going to have to discuss it with B&G in the future.

I've only been asked a few times.

I only use them for the dancing and only if I've no choice.

Theres a few problems though - quite a lot of people, especially in the north of ireland are not proud of their dancing abilities, and the dancefloor being lit by a big light is not going to help encourage them.

I've had people ask me to turn them off (but thankfully I had all my footage done by that point). I generally only film 4/5 songs, then I bail.

The problem of course is this - If you want to be able to actually see the dancing, lights might be necessary.

Thats the video point of view of course, and the DJ, the venue, and the guests do not give two hoots about our job.

I've had venues turn more lights off half way through a first dance.
I had checked the lighting and decided I wouldn't need to set up my lights, then *flick*, darkness. Thanks a lot!!!

I've also had DJ's request the lights get turn down. What do you do? Go and ask for them back on?

Its one of the trickiest parts of the day.

I don't like setting my lights up, it looks artificial and like a film set or a studio. I've always believed what I film should be natural, and true to real life.

Not much option sometimes though.


The wedding a few days ago had disco lights that went off - white light - red light - off - white light - red light.

So I saw faces for light a glimpse between darkness and bright red glowing mess. Hideous!!!

Re: Do you use lights?
 

I have seen cheap Chinese lights on ebay that can be operated from a distance where you can turn the light on/off and use the dimmer with a remote controll, that might be a good solution if all turns black during the first dance, just press the button on the remote and back is the light and then you"ll see the DJ or the guy from the venue turning buttons as they don't understand why the lights went back on.

What you describe sounds so familiar to me as well. Last wedding I had agreed with the dj to give me sufficient white light during the first dance and we even tested it, he did what was agreed the first part of the first dance and then fell back into his old dark, neon red/blue routine giving me awfull looking footage.

Re: Do you use lights?
 

After I got my C100's I literally stopped using lights overnight. I only use two small 312 LED for fill light now & even then I only set it to 30-50% brightness. It's a big adjustment since I've always used lights but the low light on the C100 is so amazing that it's not necessary. Adding light does give my images a more 3D look but I don't need the powerful redheads & I can't believe I ever justified using powerful lights. We have the tech now to do away with over powered lights. I usually film the guests dancing at F1.4 ISO 8000-12800 in complete darkness & it looks like daylight.

Re: Do you use lights?
 

Hmm... I guess I'm less curious about whether lights at all are necessary (I think they are, even for C100s), but what do you say to couples who ask, "Do you use lights?" I mean, what do you see as the motivation behind asking the question, and how do you address whatever the worry/concern is without making them even more worried?

Re: Do you use lights?
 

That question probably comes from couples that have seen a videoguy at another wedding with his canon xh-a1 using a interrogation light to be able to get his shot, Most are worried that you will use a light that will blind the guests, I have had remarks years ago when I was using hdv camera's about my too strong camera light, the only remark I get now is that they did not notice me during the day.

Re: Do you use lights?
 

Agree with Noa - they want to know you're not going to be intrusive - I fail to see however, in some dark receptions, that you can avoid it - I've shot many where the only lights are tealights on the tables and the DJ's horrible LED lights - and on one occasion only the tealights on the tables - it was like shooting in a cave!!!!

For first dance I always set up 2 LED spots and have an on-camera light - I then position myself across from my spotlights and use them to backlight the couple - I then leave them on for a few tracks to film people dancing!

I hate putting my light on as it draws attention to myself but my fastest lens is f2.8 - I could use faster primes but the versatility of a short zoom is a must!

Pete

Re: Do you use lights?
 

Same story here, there are camera's, like a c100, fs100 of 5dmark3 that will allow shooting clean footage at 6400 iso+ but these camera's come at a cost and weddings is not exactly a high income business here to justify having these expensive camera's. Below those low light kings most dslr's are able to shoot decent at 3200 iso and 6400 iso with neat video treatment but with a f2.8 lens tealight dinner tables won't cut it, you need f1.4 but that's hell trying to keep your focus on moving subjects like during a first dance. That extra bit of light you add though, even if you put attention to yourself will result in a better looking image with more color and depth, maybe annoying for the guests/couple for a very short while but at least they have nice footage to look at.

Re: Do you use lights?
 

Typically we'll only use lights for the first dance or if we do a video diary room in a really dark place (we mount them on stands and point them back in to silver umbrellas to spread / soften the light). While we could bring our big lights & soft boxes it's a lot more to carry around.

I understand why they are asking though. I had the chance to watch another video company working when I attended a wedding. TBH I was shaking my head almost the entire day. They had lights on the cameras in the church (basically blinding the couple and front couple of rows), they had lights on when ever they were inside at the reception and they stood about 6 feet from the speaker (during speeches) with a big light shining right in their face. Arrgghhh!!!!

They were using Sony HDV cameras (can't remember the exact model) and while I know they aren't so good in low light without turning the gain up (and probably needing NR in post), they were essentially getting what ever the light was shining on and everything else was pretty much black. Time for a camera upgrade I thought, then I found out how much they were charging and realised they won't have enough money left for new gear - ever. These aren't new kids on the block either, they have been doing this a while (years).

I've only ever twice needed lights at any time other than first dance or diary room, and both of those occasions were in marquees with no lighting during the speeches. For this we used Comer 1800 lights (x2) on stands. The problem with mounting them on the camera is if you need to move at all then the light changes not just for you but for the other camera too.

Re: Do you use lights?
 

5d MK3's and C100's ... all fancy investments. But if your not pulling in well paying client's, forget about it!

My EA50 was a very expensive purchase for me and copes fine to be honest, but adding in a light source really makes the image pop.

I try and keep my light off as much as possible and reluctantly switch it on when I have too ...

Re: Do you use lights?
 

I assume we are talking reception only here? During speeches I have a very high stand with 4 xCFL's bouncing into an umbrella over the lectern. Apart from that it's just a dimmable on-camera fill light for the rest of the reception so my subject is decently exposed.

Often on the F2.8 zoom I won't even need any fill light so I won't use it but it's there if I do need it. I just use a 6 x PowerLED pack on the coldshoe with the battery at the end of the shoulder pad for nice balance.

I would rather have a wee bit of inconvenience to the guests than have images that are horribily under exposed...over the last 10 years I have never had an issue at all but one groom insisted on no lighting for the speeches so I showed him what the image would look like with and without the light and he seemed happy with the grainy, noisy image so that's what he got ( that was with my old Panasonics with little 1/4" chips! With the EA-50's I can do a whole lot better especially with the fast lenses

Brides never ask me about lighting to be honest!!

Chris

Re: Do you use lights?
 

Adrian when asked if I use lights I tell the couple that yes I do depending on the situation we're in. I then go on to explain that lights adds life, color & dimension to images but in the same breath that I light to preserve the atmosphere the couple create. Lights is an essential part of producing quality images as long as it's done properly.

Re: Do you use lights?
 

Same here James but I find the EA50 kit lens at 3.5 not fast enough so I have my Canon 24-105 at f2.8 - but still it's not fast enough without extra light

Re: Do you use lights?
 

I actually have had couples ask me about lights relatively often. Not frequently, but not once in a blue moon either. I think it happens at the stage of the meeting when I push them a little bit and ask, "Any other questions at all? Anything else you want to ask about?"

I think there must be some sort of list of questions to ask videographers out there that Google is directing people to.

One of the things I think I'll say in future (and said to the last couple) is, "We shoot on some of the best low-light cameras in the world, and we hate using lights. We don't use them unless we have to. But sometimes it's so dark, you just have to. You wouldn't expect a photographer to shoot without a flash, and photography needs less light than video." Might even FAQ that at my website or something.

Re: Do you use lights?
 

Peter the 24-105 is a F4 lens. I only recently started playing with F1.4 primes, I always thought that F2.8 was fast but once you see what a F1.4 can do it's crazy. Focus isn't such a big deal as I feared it's prettty easy.

Re: Do you use lights?
 

I can focus easily as well with f1.4 as long as the objects I"m shooting stay still but once they start moving towards and away from you it's not easy at all.

Re: Do you use lights?
 

I understand why Sony / Carl Zeiss don't pull out a E-Mount F1.4 18-105mm Stabilized MACRO Zoom lens for us!

I would consider selling my kidney for one!

Re: Do you use lights?
 

Amen! Makes two of us James. Mind you the new Sigma 18-35 F1.8 is a great lens.

Re: Do you use lights?
 

I have rarely been asked if I use lights, but my standard reply would be that I prefer to use the light at the venue unless it is just too dark to film. I also point out that the first dance is often too dark for the guests to see it properly, let alone the camera, in which case I will use a small light.

When it is getting close to the first dance, I always ask the DJ if he can leave enough light to see them properly but to use his discretion. I also put a 132 led light on the hot shoe, but keep in quite close to the couple, within 10 feet, so that I can use the lower light settings. Even a small increase in light when fairly close, makes a big difference to the camera.

Roger

Re: Do you use lights?
 

He might be using the Metabones speed booster?

Re: Do you use lights?
 

Nicholas it is F4 but with my EF to NEX Metabones Speedbooster I get an extra stop - taking it down to f2.8

Re: Do you use lights?
 

While it might just be a question they think they need to ask, as a MC/DJ, I can tell you there are still videographers who use the blinding, camera mount light that really just wrecks the mood.

There is another around here who sets up four lights around it and floods the dance floor the entire time they're there. Infuriating.

For those who are tired of off color lighting for the first dance and such, just ask the DJ to make it white, but ask 10 minutes or so before. I also change my up lighting to white before speeches, but it would have never occurred to me until I started participating in this board. But if another vendor ever asked me nicely, of course I would have changed the lighting. *though many can't change their up lighting on the go, only their dance floor lights

Re: Do you use lights?
 

Hi Robert, I, and probably most of us know little about DJ lights.

You are telling me they can just change the colour? I assumed the lights were bought in certain colours, no?

I might try chatting to the DJ a bit more. But as for the venue, I have made agreements with hotel managers about the light level, only to find another member of staff takes it upon himself to dim them... probably at a guest's behest!

I'll have to upload some of the awful lighting I had to deal with the other night.

Whats with the obsession of making a wedding party into a club from Ibiza.

white or soft blue or yellow lights are elegant. Even pink isn't that bad in the dancing scenario. But neon green red and blue is horrendous on skin and faces in particular.

Re: Do you use lights?
 

Clive, for dance floor lighting, pretty much all DJs should be able to set it to the color you want/need. There's always a chance they still use three or four parcans with each being only one color, but even then they can turn them all on at once.

For up lighting, more and more of us have DMX controlled lighting, but it's probably still a tiny minority. For instance, my up lights are wirelessly controlled and battery powered, so I put them anywhere and still have control. Set them to the wedding colors, but for big moments like speeches and 1st dance, I put them white. Then, for open dancing, I have them change with the dance floor lighting.

Like this:

Re: Do you use lights?
 

i tell the couple at the pre-wedding consultation meet that I'll have a video light on my main cam and if the light levels fall below a certain limit where i cant record useful footage then the light will be used!

I once made a mistake of not using a light for speeches, and had a terrible time trying to clear up the resulting images. I did a wedding once where the wedding party had to request the venue to turn ON the lights because they couldn't read their speeches. Even in well lit venues theres often a backdrop of small lights cascading down the entire width of the top table, so your fighting with the backlit source.

where I'm from it's usually a band that start the first dance, the DJ if any wont start until long after Ive packed up and gone home. So at the cake cutting etc. it's the venue that control the lighting, ive only succeeded once in getting the lighting raised at a venue, the barman was in control of the lighting at that particular venue.
the green, red and blue garish lighting is anything but romantic! the only thing i think we can do is advise the couple of these potential problems in advance.

Re: Do you use lights?
 

When the lighting has obviously been too low for video, whether it is speeches, cake cutting or dance, I have occasionally approached the B&G and very politely ask them if they would like it filmed, as the lighting is currently too low for watchable video. They are always concerned and ask my advice, whereupon I would suggest getting the house lights brought up a little, or using my own camera light. They usually prefer the house lights, so I can then say to the manager that the B&G have requested that the lighting levels are increased. That has a lot more weight than me suggesting it to the staff.

Roger

Re: Do you use lights?
 

This little tripod has been in my kit for ten years. You can't imagine how many different things I have attached to it because it is so handy. It folds flat to fit in a bag too.

I can carry it around a room and set it down on tables, chairs, shelf's or where ever I want. Anyplace but the ground if I'm shooting faces. I use it for off camera fill light.

It would probably work great for the first dance sitting on the dance floor or on a chair you put at the edge of the dance floor. You would be surprised at how easy it is to find a good place to set it down. Just pick it up before the drunks come stampede it.

Years ago I had a mono pod with three small legs hidden in the bottom tube you could deploy. It was good for similar things but not stable enough for a reception environment.


Steve

Re: Do you use lights?
 

I think the response would be "will your photographer use flash"?

Then I'd say I use small LED lights with diffusers and dimmers, and only use what is needed to get a usable image. My cameras can almost see in the dark, BUT if you want a good image, they sometimes need just a little extra.

This is likely ONE MORE of those things that is the result of "some operators" bringing a less than professional approach to the problem... "stun gun lighting" is overkill with newer cameras and small LED lights.

The newest LED I picked up (less than $15, once again, for a 100 LED unit) will dim so far as to almost do nothing, can crank up enough to light a small room rather well, and everything in between... 5-10% setting is probably enough and even the most sensitive eyes won't be bothered by it. Runs on the same battery as the Sony cameras, so less stuff to lug around...

A small camera mounted or hand held LED light should be completely unobtrusive, and I've noticed they make the job easier for the photog and "amateurs" shooting too. VERY small investment, big payoff in versatility and image quality.

Re: Do you use lights?
 

Absolutely right Dave and exactly what I do, and Steven I also have a very similar mini tripod in my bag and very useful it is too for many things.

Roger

Re: Do you use lights?
 

100W at $15?! What light is this?

Re: Do you use lights?
 

100 LEDs, not W... but it's still quite bright! Definitely capable of blinding levels if you crank it!

It's a CN-LUX1000, they (CN brand) have numerous variations of small lights - I've got a couple that run off of AA or AAA batteries, the 1000 can use standard Sony camcorder batteries, either FM or FP/FH/FV series, whih I have plenty of for cameras! They also include an adapter for one Panasonic battery, not sure offhand which model, and a holder for AA batteries, along with a shoe adapter and three diffusers.

I was just informed that my order for a couple more was not coming because of stock issues (or I got 'em too cheep?). But I've seen another supplier selling 'em for around $20, still a bargain.

Re: Do you use lights?
 

For almost a decade, we never used any on - camera lights at the reception.

Then, one day, I thought I'd buy a Sony video light for my NX5. It was only $78, so I figured it was worth a shot. Now, after having done that, I can't believe I never got something like it sooner. The video footage, of course looks much much better.

In order to help with the super brightness, I went to the paper store and got some vellum paper and made a cheap diffuser, cut to size, and taped on with Painters Tape, so it doesn't leave any residue when taken off the light.

This is the one I got, and it's no longer made. I bought 2 more used one's on Ebay a couple weeks back just in case my main one fails.
Sony HVL-20DW2 20W Video Light HVL20DW2 B&H Photo Video

Re: Do you use lights?
 

That dual Halogen light has been a standard for a long time - had a couple myself, with a Sto-Fen style diffuser (don't remember which model, but it's the best way to tone down that light). Gives a very warm light, which is nice compared to LEDs, which can be a bit cool and potentially have an odd greenish spike.

The light weight, low heat, and low cost of the LED lights is hard to beat though. The cheap ones I mentioned have a purple diffuser (I presume to take out the green spike), and an orange one to give a warmer tone, giving you some options. And I much prefer the dimmable capability, which does seem to vary from one LED unit to another for some reason - some go "low", the 1000 goes VERY low. I want to use the minimum of light to give the camera something to work with without blinding the subject - being able to turn a dial to get that is handy!

Re: Do you use lights?
 

Hi Dave

I have found all my cameras can easily auto WB the cold LED light but having also used Halogens before the biggest asset is also the long battery life! My 6 x PowerLED unit will last an entire reception on a single Sony battery which is great! With my Halogens I used to have a battery fail right in the middle of the dancing and the poor footage also goes orange as the voltage drops!

On my Sony cams I open the aperture to max set shutter to 1/50th and then limit the camera's gain to around 18db and actually use the light via zebras to expose correctly so the dimmer is really a huge asset! It almost acts as a second iris for the camera. Prices are quite amazing too for what you get! I know they usually supply a "generic" camera battery to power the light but the entire light/fittings/battery often costs a lot less than a normal camera battery so it's a valuable asset and you can always turn it off or dim to zero when you don't need it!

The secret is not to try and light up the area like a football field but just highlight the subjects only so the background stays at the correct ambient level (at my weddings that's usually pretty dark!!)

Don also puts a piece of spun nylon (can't remember the correct name) over his lights which diffuses them even better than the built in ones!

Chris

Re: Do you use lights?
 

Amazon has a nice selection of the CN lights. I use the CN160 with the diffusion filter on it and over that I use a piece of Tough Spun to soften the light a bit more. I used to use a 2nd one on a stand with a single button remote but it got kicked around a few times and frankly it just wasn't worth the headache anymore.

Yeah the on camera light can give the deer in the headlights looks but honestly, I'd rather have that than cruddy, grainy footage without the light.

Re: Do you use lights?
 

I never use on camera lights but always carry lights & light stands & shot bags.

I always mention it to the bride. verbally and in writing and have never had a problem. I use the flash analogy as well " we need as much light as the photographer - he uses the flash with each picture he takes - we take 25 pictures each second - that's how much light we need.

I have light stands that reach 3m and use battery powered led lights - as long as they are up high, no one seems to notice but I still check with the bride to make sure it's okay. Don't use them every time but most times.

Re: Do you use lights?
 

I now have a PowerLED light unit on the camera.

I've owned two Amaran 198 LED units which are ridiculously bright and run on batteries (sold them recently). And have also recently purchased the 528 LED Kit from Amaran (2 units) with light stands and everything ... set me back nearly £280 but got rid of it for £150! (some one had a bargain). Why? well because I have simply never had the need to use them ... I always convince myself I will need them but I don't. And I have come to the realisation as a solo shooter I need to travel as light as possible! it's very important I do so.

I prefer the candid non-intrusive footage I capture without a light. People act more natural.

I know it's bad, but I just push the levels up in post production. It suffices with my customers. Brides and family just want to see clear faces and emotion in their videos.

Re: Do you use lights?
 

I really hate using lights but at a typical evening reception with an f2.8 on my Sony EA50 I'm getting 24db gain - I'm looking at a short, fast zoom from Tamron which will give me f1.8 and hopefully take that gain level down to something more acceptable.

Pete

Re: Do you use lights?
 

Unless you're trying to replicate a studio light setup, you really don't need BIG light arrays... all that is needed is a little "help" to give the camera something to work with if the lights are really low.

You can get LED lights that are both small and light, run on batteries, and will "do the trick" for most purposes, and they don't cost terribly much. Better to have a "fill" light at one's fingertips that you can adjust via dimmer than to try to push the camera into the depths of its operational capability.

Honestly, I found a sub $20, 56 LED unit with dimmer was plenty to have on a camera bracket or hold up in my other hand to add needed light at an outdoor reception. All the amateur shooters were able to get decent phone or cheapo videocam footage too <wink>.

I don't want to alter the ambience, I want to be able to give my cams just enough light to work with in maybe a 6-10 ft. radius, without blinding the subject. That will also give the photog an easier time as they don't need the annoying red focus assist illumination - a small LED light tends to make one a very popular person!