Wedding Photo Storybooks ?
 

Where do you guys get yours made ?

Re: Wedding Photo Storybooks ?
 

Hi James

Are you referring to what I would call a "coffee table book" where your images are printed in a bound largish book??

I don't offer them at all ..My combo video/photo packages just have photos on a DVD and the bride then can print at the local discount store or print at a lab onto canvas whichever her budget allows.

Quite a few places here seem to offer an on-line service where you choose the layout (or modify their suggested layout) and choose a cover etc etc ..You then simply upload your images and pay and a couple of weeks later you get your book.

A storybook to me suggests photos just maybe one on a page with printed text or maybe I'm wrong? However I'm pretty sure those could be done online as well and they might even have suggested text or poems you could use.

Chris

Re: Wedding Photo Storybooks ?
 

Hi Chris

Yes, something like that ... a simple Google search comes up with lots of websites that do storybooks and printed albums but I was just wondering what websites the UK users used or ones that they would recommend.

Re: Wedding Photo Storybooks ?
 

Depending on the Bride's budget we've used things from (cheap) Blurb, through Apple up to Loxely Colour.

Re: Wedding Photo Storybooks ?
 

If you were looking at professional grade albums I would say that its probably not worth your while for the occasional order. You would need to get an agency (most do not deal direct with the public so they would want to satisfy themselves that you are legit etc), plus the wholesale costs alone can easily run into the £hundreds, plus you would need to get competent with a suitable design software, plus designing is a huge time hogg.

Professional albums of the "storybook" genre n.b. printed direct onto the page, open to layflat, are pretty much sewn up in the UK by GraphiStudio and Sim 2000. There are other "and me" manufacturers. You would need some sample albums.

I have this page on my site for clients:

graphi studio wedding albums and photo books flushmount digital magazine coffee table by ashton lamont professional photographers

Consumer grade albums are much cheaper and you can get a decent book for £70 - £90 wholesale. You still need to factor in your design time but most have their own drag and drop software. The market leader at the moment is Albelli:

Photo book ? Make your own photo books and photo albums | Albelli

I've used them occasionally when clients have not wanted the expense of an - as it were - pro album. There are many other companies similar but many of these get slagged off on photo forums for inconsistent quality - particularly colour management. You may want to check out if they can do unbranded versions.

You can see lots of suppliers of photo books and pro albums at two upcoming trade shows:

SWPP:

http://swpp.co.uk/convention/exhibitors.htm

Focus on Imaging:

http://www.focus-on-imaging.co.uk/

Something that soon becomes apparent if you allow clients full input into image selection and design is just how "traditional" most are in their tastes. Everyone thinks that they want edgy fashionista stuff at the consultation stage but the actual selections that materialise once they have had time to digest it all a few weeks or months after the wedding are quite different. This has implications for video editing as well; it is not of course practical at present to give clients much if any input into the final video product. Purveyors of videos of the current time-shifted etc genre may be shocked at just how wide of the mark they are long term.

It may be more practical to offer a loose print entitlement than books or albums.

Pete

Re: Wedding Photo Storybooks ?
 

Thank you very much Pete.

Your post was just what I needed. I think for this particular client i'll be using one of the Albelli photobooks and add in my commission for designing the layout etc.

Re: Wedding Photo Storybooks ?
 

At the SWPP convention last year I found Our Personalised Photo Book Creation Prices: Vanilla Photobooks who are a UK company who produce good quality well priced albums in a fairly limited but decent range of cover options. They don't offer the ludicrously large range that Graphi do (it's bad enough getting the client to choose the photos never mind choosing between the chromium, fur or lurex:-) but what is really important ins that the quality of the images on 440gsm Fuji Photolustre DP2 is superb. A 12"x12" album in faux leather or image wrapped costs well under £100 for 24 sides & for the real 'Wow' factor an image spread across two A3 pages is spectacular & just £225 for 12pages/24 sides. These albums are not that much more than Albelli, Blurb or similar but are 'proper' wedding albums rather than coffee table books on much lighter weight paper.

Re: Wedding Photo Storybooks ?
 

Thanks Nigel, bookmarked that supplier.

It all depends on the client. I'll see how much they are willing to spend and take it from there.

Re: Wedding Photo Storybooks ?
 

For those members starting to offer photographic options and albums please do appreciate that the client is buying what you offer; there is no obligation or expectation from album companies that you will offer every permutation of every product that they have. That would very soon kill you as the clients get analysis paralysis. Just offer the products that you feel will most appeal to your target market and if you have one-off clients who show an interest in off-menu items deal with them individually.

Most photographers do not quote which manufacturer they will use, rather they just waffle on about premium quality. Usually this is because they want to pass off cheaper consumer grade products as professional ones so as to side-step getting approved by pro companies and learning software indepth, plus appear to be better value than their competition as they can offer what is apparently a near identical product cheaper. Never underestimate how much dishonesty there is in the world of "pro" wedding photography.

Other times its because they do not want clients to have any way of finding out wholesale pricing. That is legit in so far as clients are very unlikely to appreciate the time and work involved to designing (rather than using manufacturers canned software and templates).

Again its because album companies come and go with alarming predictability. Many have been set up in the past 3 to 4 years by photographers feeling the pinch in their main business, only to fail. Remember that there is likely to be a long lead time from when the client books you to when they sign off on the finished design. It can easily be 18 - 24 months. That makes you vulnerable to changes in suppliers offerings and even their existence.

The likes of Sim 2000 Graphi and Albelli are well-established and probably are not going to disappear.

Also bear in mind that the trend in album sales is very much downwards - as with loose print sales. Ignore the bull*$"t spouted by album companies and gurus. Many clients now prefer to view the bulk of their images on smartphones and tablets. Again they can easily apply special effects to the digital files should they wish. And many are very familiar with creating their own photobooks from digital files.

So its important to access whether it makes business sense to branch into albums. Will it actually make you a genuine profit? Will it get you clients you would not otherwise have booked?

And you WILL need samples. With albums its very much a case of you sell what you show. You won't get anywhere with a bunch of swatch books and brochures. I'm lucky in that I have had the agencies, the specific software skills, the samples etc for donkeys years; I even pick up a fair bit direct from clients whose own photographers can't offer pro albums. But if I was starting from scratch I'm not sure I'd do it all again.

Pete

Re: Wedding Photo Storybooks ?
 

Hi Pete

I'm working sorta the opposite to you where I do video as the primary product and then give the client the option to have me as their photographer as well, obviously saving money as they don't have to employ another body as I'm already there!

At the moment I only offer images on DVD to the bride and she can then print out whatever she wants and when she can afford it.

From a purely marketing POV do you find that offering a book in the package sells your product a lot better than just offering a disc only?? Apart from the extra money doing a combined package I do enjoy taking the stills anyway (I was doing wedding photography before video was practical!) and there is nothing better than not having a photog blocking your shot and when it's yourself that doesn't happen of course.

I probably get about one in three brides interested in doing combined packages but I would prefer to have both booked with every shoot ... Do you think with a combined package, offering prints/albums/photobooks would help in persuading brides to book me for both???

Chris

Re: Wedding Photo Storybooks ?
 

Do you think with a combined package, offering prints/albums/photobooks would help in persuading brides to book me for both???

Thats the great unknown Chris :- ) But with the advent of virtually all photographers including the high res files, of clients preferring viewing on devices rather than as hard copies, and of cheap easy to design photo books, all I can really say is that you won't loose many clients because there aren't many clients in the album camp in the first place. Be careful not to be seduced by stories from some "high end" photographers who claim that albums are thriving; they tend to have a whole infrastructure geared to well-healed brides recommended by high end venues coming into their swish studios and getting the hard sell. They have all the expense of studios, staff, venue commission, expensive advertising in magazines and trendy blogs etc. And they do not release the digital files. In other words very much a niche market.

I would be nervous about not offering a full album service but as I've stressed already its hard to see how it could be worth your while going from a standing start. Remember that the video is in many ways replacing the album, and copies of it replacing parent books, so its not like you are simply yet another photographer who can or cannot do "proper" albums.

Pete

Re: Wedding Photo Storybooks ?
 

A couple of years ago we were doing combined packages and found it much easier to find brides for that than video only, in fact probably 50% of our weddings in our final year of doing it were combined. However, around 90% of those that booked combined packages only wanted digital files, not albums.

Those who did want an album fell in to three distinct camps:

1) Those who didn't want us to design an album until they had chosen the shots. I'm still waiting for some of them 2 years later and album prices have gone up in that time. Hmmm…. I'm not chasing them any more.

2) Those for whom we designed an album and they came back relatively quickly with any changes - but you need to allow additional time (and therefor add cost) for this additional time.

3) Those for whom we designed an album and took forever to come back with their choices / changes. we had to chase a couple of them and frankly I didn't think it was worth the extra hassle on the day nor the hassle of the albums afterwards. I'd rather stick with shoot-to-burn if possible because you're 'done' with the wedding so much quicker.

I found that most of them were putting off the album (and the cost of it) until after the wedding because of budget, but how ever much I told them (you can tell 'em as many times as you want) that by doing it that way the album almost NEVER gets done, they think that they will be different. Then the wedding comes and goes and the album is never the most pressing thing to spend their money on. Go figure.

So, does "offering it" help get the bookings? I would say yes, without a shadow of a doubt, but don't expect to actually sell many of them and make sure your prices for albums are realistic taking in to account the extra time to design, get feedback, make changes, re-submit etc, then have the album made, then allow for shipping costs if they aren't local to you.

TBH, albums were a major PITA, much more than I thought they would ever be.

Re: Wedding Photo Storybooks ?
 

Hi Pete and Dave

Many thanks and interesting that we have two opposite viewpoints here. I can see the issue with brides actually selecting the images they want for their photobook and that could quite easily go on and on too!

It's a pity we can't adopt the "full editorial control" like we do with video where we choose what goes into the edit. Are photographer chosen photobooks or album not feasible any more? If you offer say a 10 page A4 photobook with 10 pages in it for "free" (obviously costed in) with your package then that might allow you to choose images, order and deliver. If the bride later wishes to have a second and more complex book she of course can choose, order and pay for that.

What are you guys giving the bride as an absolute minimum with a basic photo package ... photobook, album/prints, loose prints or just simply just a disc?? When supplying a combined package of video and photo I guess one would need to show "value for money" with both end products

Chris

Re: Wedding Photo Storybooks ?
 

Yes, that is a different story altogether. I've done that, taken images I liked or thought suitable and given them a photo book (not an album) and they were extremely happy.

When it comes to more expensive albums they seem to want to pick their own.

Re: Wedding Photo Storybooks ?
 

Thanks Dave

From an edit and marketing point of view that sounds a decent route to take. The bride gets a value for money photo package rather than just one DVD in a case and the wedding is wrapped up quickly with no waiting for the bride at all. If they did want extras then you can still execute an order for them (prepaid of course) and it's a bit extra but I wouldn't encourage it as it sounds a pain with waiting for the bride to select pics.

I definitely want to have all many combined packages as I can next season ..it's harder work for me but no photog hassles!!

Chris

Re: Wedding Photo Storybooks ?
 

Offering loose prints is a nice low cost option. You can get decent pro lab prints for as little as 13p+VAT for a 7"x5" so even 100 prints would only be £15 & would be a lot less than an album. Put them in a nice presentation box for another £5-10 Of course it may be better to offer all the images as prints rather than go through the hassle of getting the bride to choose 100. Alternatively choosing 10 & putting them in cardboard strut mounts as a surprise freebie would only cost a few pounds & would buy a lot of goodwill.

Re: Wedding Photo Storybooks ?
 

That's a nice idea too Nigel

The whole idea is to get the bride to think that her presented package is good value for money ...the same concept as a tiny box of 50 x 6x4 prints is viewed as less value than a swanky big gift box with 20 x 5x7 prints or even better in cardboard strut mounts.

Nice for marketing as the bride wants to be able to say "Wow..look what this photographer gives us"

I think this is the one reason why video DVD's in cases are perceived as better value than a tiny USB drive, even though the USB is HD quality. The merits of fancy packaging is used to great effect by most manufacturers ... not a lot of householders would buy products in clear plastic bags !!

A gift box therefore is an essential!!!

Chris

Re: Wedding Photo Storybooks ?
 

In the days before clients were comfortable with dealing with digital files I used to offer a prints only package (no album, no files) with the option to purchase the high resolution digital files at extra cost. Clients really didn't "get" the idea of files and you'd see them glaze over during consultations. After the weddings increasing numbers of clients began to understand it and the purchasing of the files instead of extra prints or as well as extra prints became the norm. The going rate was several £hundred. Happy days :- )

But now just about everyone understands files and how to use them. It would be commercial suicide to not offer them in the mainstream market (that is if you are NOT operating in a niche where you present yourself as an artist lovingly editing every image to perfection and offering prints and albums, no files).

For a few months my files package was just that. Files only, no prints. After all why would the clients need my prints when they already have the files? But research showed that clients still appreciated receiving some pro grade prints so I added a loose print entitlement.

Don't be tempted to chase the cheapest price whether its from a lab purporting to be pro or a consumer lab. Thats what your client will be doing. Getting your prints in front of the clients is your big chance to show them how much better a genuine pro print is. Prints from cheap labs will likely not show the shadow and highlight detail at their best, and be inconsistent in colour on repeat orders.

Also don't be tempted to dump hundreds of 6x4's on them. That size is absolutely useless for detail in posed shots plus it smells of you trying to get away with spending as little as you can. Avoid 7x5 unless you like cropping every image from the standard 3:2 aspect ratio. 7.5x5 is good because its big enough to show lots of detail whilst also being small enough to fit in clients shop-bought albums. And they can snip a bit off two sides if it is to go in a 7x5 frame.

10x8 is good for frames obviously but often your 3:2 aspect files won't crop to that 10x8 without loosing essential detail. For those images I put an ivory keyline around a 9x6 then the9x6 onto a black background 10x8. I have written actions to do it in Photoshop:

Image Ref 447-1908-02_csw_9x6on10x8_web ashton lamont photography

I also used to specify how many images clients could have in print in size brackets. But that is unnecessarily messy. Now I just say you can have any size up to and including 10x8.Very few if any clients order the whole lot at 10x8. Some order everything at 9x6 but most order a mix of sizes.

Some clients never get around to using their print entitlement - same with albums, some clients never do it. That has always been the case at all price points in the market. It is critical that you have a cut off date in your contract after which unused entitlements expire without value. I have 6 months or 12 months after the wedding date depending on the product. If you do NOT do this then your accountant would need to bring forward in your annual accounts a potential liability every year until the end of the world. It protects you from supplier price rises and suppliers going bust as well. There is a steady stream of photographers having to scan old negatives and slides because they failed to take this precaution :- )

I would say don't choose the images for loose prints yourself. Its likely that the clients own selection will be dominated by posed stuff regardless of what they told you at the consultation stage; there is no way you can second guess what the clients favourite facial expressions might be. However if doing an album it works best if they just give you a list of their favourites and leave it to you to add others to arrive at the best design.

I would not offer a free photo book. The quality will never compare well with pro-level large loose prints so you miss an opportunity. You also risk causing resentment if it becomes clear that you have not included nearly enough pages and the client has to pay for more.

Also don't undertake to supply every image as a print. The cost will be very significant if you supply as many images as you need to when competing in the mainstream market, and the clients may not even want them.

Again mounts that look nicer than the crap supplied by event photographers printing on the night or for schools are not cheap. Can be around £1.50 per photo and of course the extra weight and therefore the shipping costs can add up.

Finally I wouldn't bother with presentation boxes. If you allow a mix of print sizes you end up needing several types of box. Also the loose prints are soon going to be split up between parents, one-offs for bridesmaids, some in frames, etc.You can get clear plastic document cases at stationers which are around foolscap x 1" and have a business card slot in the cover that work great for a mix of prints and DVD cases all in one. For small orders just use the clear plastic one side white other side "doughnut bags" in sturdy mailing packs.


Pete

Re: Wedding Photo Storybooks ?
 

Thanks for the info Pete

I agree that sending the bride 6x4's is a cheap route and it will show in the end product.

However I still feel that the nice gift box option does add value to the product. In the OLD days when I was shooting weddings on film I used to supply a white classy album with 5x7's and the brides always seemed to be greatly impressed that it came in a nice white box and the album itself was encased in soft tissue paper ...for them it was like unwrapping a gift and discovering the contents and always went down well.

Does anyone still supply proper wedding albums any more ?? I seen a couple of photogs here with supermarket style albums meant rather for family snap shots so that would simply de-value the end product.

I am planning to upgrade my photography side after the festive season so I can get more combined packages and at the moment it's really only a low budget add-on so it doesn't have a lot of appeal!!
It definitely needs a classy facelift!!!

Chris

Re: Wedding Photo Storybooks ?
 

Does anyone still supply proper wedding albums any more

Well I do obviously :- ) If you want to bring your photographic side to a new level and if you are pretty sure you will be in that for the long term then it probably would make sense to have a pro-manufacturer agency. But for occasional use, no.

I'd be inclined to have just one agency with a reliable big supplier such as Graphi. Even just one supplier will give you loads of options, far more than you might want to swamp the clients with. Probably go a flushmount / digital / layflat type of album rather than matted as these are a lot more popular. Graphi does a form of matted as well but their version is far to fashionista for my target market. Chris you ought to be able to get an agency with them no problem because of your online business credentials (n.b. they did clamp down a while back and flushed out a pile of wannabees).

Graphi also does its own software. Personally I don't like it, too limiting for the designs i supply and too inclined towards special effects. If you design flushmount albums in Photoshop you would be able to use your designs with any manufacturer just by dragging the spreads into their ordering software (so long as the aspect ratios are roughly the same or you've allowed for a little cropping).

Graphi does do a generic sample album. I think you have to purchase it. Its a start. Be careful they don't try to railroad you into the new matted stuff :- ) Its a niche.

Its worth spending quality time on Lynda dot com to get up to speed with Photoshop. For album design pay particular attention to layers, free transform, smart objects, and smart filters, as these will enable you to make lots of non-destructive amendments quickly and easily. You can drag and drop images straight from Bridge into your Photoshop spreads and each layer will take its name from that image - very handy.

The mailing boxes I sometimes use are the Snopake DocBox 35:

Snopake DocBox Box File Polypropylene with Push Lock 35mm Spine A4 Clear Ref 12861: Amazon.co.uk: Office Products

They are very robust and the client is still going to get the sense of occasion of opening a big jiffy with it inside together with its prints and videos etc.

Pete

Re: Wedding Photo Storybooks ?
 

Hi Pete

Whew that is classy stuff ..I'd hate to have to ask the price of their products but I would expect it to be out of reach of budget brides here who expect photos and an album for around $1000 or even less.

It certainly is the ultimate end product if you get a bride with a decent budget ..My niece, back in 2008, paid the photgs $2500 for their time (I think it was from 1pm to 7pm) and then her album and prints were another $2500!! In know that pro level coffee table books here can easily be around the $1200 mark!

Thanks for the great input!

Chris

Re: Wedding Photo Storybooks ?
 

I remember long time ago (when I did stills only) researching photograph albums, below are some links from various different countries;
Photo book - print - calendar - canvas - poster | myphotobook.ie
Personalised Photo Gifts & Cards - PhotoBox
An easy to use software to make photo books - Shakespeare Photobooks, Calendars & Cards
Home - ALDI Photo Service
MyMemories Digital Scrapbooking Software and Scrapbook Kits
Self Publishing, Book Printing and Publishing Online - Lulu
Photo Book - FOTO.com Ireland
Wedding Photo Albums. Wedding Books | Blurb Bookstore
Graphistudio | USA
AsukaBook Book of the Month Photo Book Designs | AsukaBook USA
WHCC - White House Custom Colour - Books & Albums
SharedInk | Professional Photo Books
KISS - Books
Sim Imaging | Capture. Click. Create!
Bellissimo Albums & Books - Loxley Colour
Finao Online - Home
Queensberry Wedding Albums - Wedding & Fine Photo Books

I'm registered with Queensberry very high quality stuff but out of reach for a lot of people. They have their own layout software so you can integrate it with Photoshop or InDesign etc.

I sometimes do my own printing but i charge a lot for it because it's pretty spendy and it'd be only for A3 size and limited amounts.

I dont encourage people to get albums immediately as the cost can be prohibitive and theres not a huge margin to be got from them given the layout and design time you have to invest. Most stills jobs i do these days the clients mostly want the high res files on DVD so they can choose what to print or indeed make their own photobooks.

Re: Wedding Photo Storybooks ?
 

Chris, Graphi is surprisingly affordable but its still not going to sit well with the budget brides.

The likes of Queensberry are rather more expensive. I had a sense of humour failure with them because I seemed to be their guinea pig when they were bringing in their own design software and I kept finding all sorts of issues they weren't aware of (since solved). They over promised and under delivered at that point. And the costs rose even higher if they did the full print and bind rather than despatch the album for you to assemble with your own prints (which Jorgensen also do as an option).

Rob's list indirectly highlights some of the potential issues. One is exchange rate changes. Once it was fairly cheap to source in the USA so Fineo and Kiss for example were reasonable value. Not so much now. SharedInk was a classier press-printed book than those available in the high street and a cheaper alternative to the likes of Graphi. They were great for the right client but now the've gone out of business.

Oh I meant to add on the subject of loose prints: if you have no prints included in your digital files package you are unlikely to get print orders. But if you have a print entitlement quite a few clients will purchase extra prints when they place their main order. Having a print entitlement is of course also a great indicator of what sort of images the clients really like compared to what they say they will like at the booking stage; that may influence you in selecting your style for video :- )

Pete