Another moment ruined
 

I will stop posting these now (I seem to post a few) but this was from yesterdays wedding - Tog followed bride all the way down the isle and completely ruined my shot - pretty narked about this one because the bridesmaid carrying the baby would have been gold!

re: Another moment ruined
 

Hey Pete

What happens happens!!! It's all part of the day and if nothing else the bride will blame the photog not you!

I tend to shoot the other way so I get faces and then as the bride passes me I follow the bride and dad right up to the end. Of course even if the photog pushes in front my A-Cam catches then and my trusty GoPro next to the A-Cam or on the balcony is my safety shot.

Next time don't follow them down the aisle ...shoot from the front (about 3 pews back) AND make sure you are in the photo ..just for revenge!!

At my wedding yesterday some little 2 year old was running around the aisle totally un restrained and un supervised and apart from getting in the shot ..he walked up to my light stand with the GoPro on top and gave it a good shake (sorta like dislodging a cat from a high tree) ...the camera swayed wildly until he was stopped but I cannot use that footage although I'm tempted to!!!

Live and let live ...OR start doing dual packages like Roger, Pete Riding and I do... when you are also the photog you won't ever be cursed by the videographer

Chris

re: Another moment ruined
 

It was from a locked off camera Chris - here are 2 more views I got - I have started to position myself in an end pew so I can get a nice closeup as she walks past and then when she's at the front scoot down a side isle and take up position for the rest of the ceremony - At yesterday's wedding however there was no side way for me to get into position - I'd have needed to go down the isle myself - not appropriate!

re: Another moment ruined
 

Chris I have no idea how you could do that - yesterday's wedding was in 3 locations - church/photoshoot in a reindeer park/hotel. The church and hotel are 3 camera setups with audio recorders and I work alone so that's a massive amount of running around, loading the car, driving, unloading the car, carting all the gear around etc etc. I work fairly quickly but that still takes a chunk of time and then I have to film the good stuff in between - I run around like a blue arse fly at a wedding and am knackered at the end of the day - to try and take photos in amongst all that boggles my imagination - you guys must be heroes :)

re: Another moment ruined
 

Hi Pete

It is a bit taxing but the thought of having no photog messing me around is awesome PLUS I don't have to sit around during the photoshoot. I have an EA-50 on a tripod up front for the B&G and then a GoPro on a lighting stand usually above it for outdoor or on the balcony upstairs for Churches. The second EA-50 is on my shoulder for cutaways during the ceremony and then I have a dual DSLR harness with the two Nikons either side of me like a wild west cowboy ... You need to be on the ball during the ceremony but it's mostly pretty easy as I'm only shooting cutaways on the 2nd EA-50 so I can pop off plenty of stills during the ceremony. That's the only really tricky bit ... the rest of the wedding is easy for stills and video combined! I do a mock cake cut for stills (early on) and then do the video later when they cut the cake.

With the photoshoot I will do stills only of all the groups (never do video of that anyway) and then swop to a stedicam video shoot and then back to stills with the bride and groom only. The only thing I cannot do is the congratulations which is only on video so they miss any stills there but otherwise the rest is fairly easy.

I do a round the tables at the reception on video and then go back and do posed table shots on stills. Doing stills at reception makes the evening go faster too. Prep video and photo is really simple as you have lots of time.

Maybe Pete Riding or Roger will chip in and tell you their preferred method? I think Roger has his wife to help him ..mine is not interested sadly as now and again it would be nice to have someone to assist with stills especially at the ceremony!

Chris

re: Another moment ruined
 

IF I were to try and do both photo and video, I'd use a two mount pole to put two different cameras on my one tripod - one for video, one for photos. It would still be tricky, but I think that would make it a lot easier.

My concern would be that some of the best footage and pictures come from the most fleeting moments: the kiss, the processional, recessional, and their like.

OR, how would still frames taken out of footage look if I followed the usual shutter speed rules for photography? (as in, a 135mm lens so I will use a shutter speed higher than 135). I may have to do some test shots of that.

re: Another moment ruined
 

I'm a bit confused now.. Are you shooting with 3 cameras?! And upset the photog is in one of your shots?! That sounds a bit egregious. No different than videographers complaining about photography companies that send out 3 photogs to the wedding and getting in our way.

re: Another moment ruined
 

Hi Dave - I have 2 discreet locked off handycams on lightstands as well as my main camera (Sony EA50) which I am with at the front of the church - the processional looks really nice from that shot straight down the isle - there were 2 togs, one with a prime and one with a zoom - surely no need to walk down the isle with the bride and bridesmaids though!

It is what it is and i aren't going to sweat it - I always want the best for my couples though and that tog takes the shine off a nice little sequence IMO

Pete

re: Another moment ruined
 

I used to get upset about the photog going down the aisle, but as time goes on I have stopped. It is not even an issue to me. In fact I don't even notice it or care. I've done so many in the last few years they all kind of become a blur anyway.

I do not feel my footage is so precious anymore that I need to get resentful about such things. I get the shots I can and am constantly getting ready for the next shot.

If they stand directly in front of my camera and block it, then I take action to remedy it but otherwise I try and enjoy the shoot.

In my case I actually tell the photographer to never worry about being in my shot and to do whatever he wants, that I will work around him. It's not that big a deal to me.

I do admit I wonder why more of them do not use a zoom and tripod to capture key shots. The photographers I most admire use zoom lenses and a tripod at key points.and seem to get the best images often times. Their job is difficult enough and I like giving them room to work.

re: Another moment ruined
 

That's the mentality YOU SHOULD have.

Especially if you're running a business.

If you're doing it as a hobby then you will automatically get extra passionate. But as a business, have it down in your contract that you're not liable if anybody gets in the way.

re: Another moment ruined
 

Well, we are documenting the day, aren't we James? I do see the photographer as part of the action, not separate.

On the other hand if I focus on him/her it can be very easy to get worked up over it. Not worth it. It just takes time to realize such things. I used to be a hothead and even had a couple of unpleasant confrontations. I'm glad those days are behind me.

I will admit that once I did have a photog who deliberately completely blocked my camera. Nothing, I mean nothing, was in the shot but her back and head. When I politely pointed out my camera to her, she refused to move and said something nasty. I was no longer a nice guy and when I was done with her she avoided me the rest of the night.

Re: Another moment ruined
 

I haven't read all the comments but i have to say - I don't agree at all with the OP. Actually, in fairness - as a stabiliser user, I often times like to follow bride/bridesmaids up the aisle. I'm sure I've ticked off quite a few togs in my time, just like they have ticked me off.

But it is what it is, You would happily video the lady delivering flowers or the hairdressers or DJ/band - the photographer is just another part of the day - he was there, and not by accident - the bride booked him.

It is what it is - We can't make the whole video seem like a hollywood film where we strip away any sense of reality from the occasion.

Re: Another moment ruined
 

That's the thing though isn't it ... all the videographers out there are displaying work without those parts.

Brides see our trailers/samples where we strip out those parts and most likely assume the whole film will end up like that, but much longer!

Little do they realise the actual film contains all the bits & bobs and mishaps. Then you get whinging clients like Tariq is facing ... saying why was half the body of some one chopped off in a dancing scene etc

Re: Another moment ruined
 

The observer influences the event.

Re: Another moment ruined
 

I used to do this a couple of years ago, and Still Motion recommend it in one of their videos. It's a convenient way to capture the handing off once she gets to the top of the aisle, plus it's just a great shot. You can do a nice reveal of the church, and all the guests' faces are turned to the bride, so there's a lot of nice reactions, and she gets to see everyone who came to the ceremony.

I don't often do it anymore, though.

Reasons: (1) steadicam pretty much guaranteed to get in the way of any other camera that's shooting the bride/bridesmaids' faces, even if operator is trying to crouch-walk; (2) ticks togs off and is less discreet generally.

But other Sydney videographers I've spoken to have varying views. Some revel in the fact that it's less discreet, and go into the process with full arm and vest -- and they do seem to have people coming up to them afterwards asking for their business card.

Re: Another moment ruined
 

then when she's at the front scoot down a side isle and take up position for the rest of the ceremony - At yesterday's wedding however there was no side way for me to get into position - I'd have needed to go down the isle myself - not appropriate!

You can make that manoeuvre whilst everyone is standing up belting out the 1st hymn without you causing a distraction. I've done that loads of times. Tell the bride that is what you need to do if you think it needs mentioning for a specific wedding. The only thing to watch out for is that if she is wearing a large dress it can be tricky to pick your way around it in a narrow space - though typically you would be swinging around the groom so as to be on his side of the front to capture her face.

You can do a similar thing in civil venues at the point where the registrar asks the guests to be seated, or when she asks them to stand for the vows. Explain this to the registrar beforehand if needs be and ask them to build you in a little wiggle room; most are happy to oblige.

All this means that whilst you are at the back at the start you can get the bridal party faces as they sweep in. Then as soon as they have passed you get that cam pointing forwards - which if you had tried to do earlier may have blocked the aisle. And you can get the composition just right before decamping to the front. You could of course have your rear cam offset to one side throughout so that it does not obstruct the aisle. But then you risk having a bunch of backs of heads in the foreground whenever the guests are standing unless your cam is quite high; and if its high it may need to be too high and look unnatural, and will be susceptible to greater vibration.

When I first looked at the opening screen grab I thought it was the type of church in which you cannot man a cam at the front to capture anything other than the couples backs of heads. And as a photographer if a videographer had said to me to keep clear of the only aisle because he wants a big establishing clip lasting several crucial minutes I might have replied "thanks for sharing that technical explanation with me , now go f%£$ yourself" :- )

In your instance the photographer was probably trying to get the grooms first look and felt he had to go nearer to avoid risking all those wedding party heads bobbing in the way. He was no doubt also aware that you had several cams rolling so in his subconscious he wouldn't have necessarily thought of his position as a problem. Again he would probably have experienced many videographers setting up multiple machine gun nests of cams and expecting everyone to stay miles out of their sweep at all times.

As Chris says there is a solution staring you in the face and that is to take on the stills and the video work. Its not easy but its not overly difficult either. Of course some scenarios are harder than others - like separate getting ready, ceremony, and reception venues complete with late brides parking issues and speeches at the start of the wedding breakfast. But you will find ways to make it work. I could write a book on it but then I'd be revising it all the while; just try it, not necessarily even with the clients knowledge, and you'll soon find your own ways.

You may also find - as I have done - that celebrants often are much more respectful of you and cut you slack where otherwise they might not.

Last Saturdays wedding was a case in point. The church layout was very similar to your own except there was no chance of taking up any position abreast of or to the front of the couple.

The vicar said to me in my capacity as photographer "you may take photos of the bride entering, a few shots with the register, and shots of the couple exiting at the end of the ceremony". Then i mentioned video and he replied "we have a blanket ban on video in the church". All this was of course a million miles from what the couple had understood the rules to be.

Anyway after we chatted a bit I was able to use FIVE video cams (two small ones at the front attached to fittings using friction arms and totally inaccessible during the ceremony, two on lightstands left and right part way down the main area and with limited accessibility during the ceremony, and one at the back on a tripod with full accessibility). Oh and audio recorders sprinkled to taste.

Additionally he had planned at the rehearsal that all the bridesmaids - all seven - would remain the the centre aisle standing throughout the ceremony and that the three groomsmen and two dads would stand abreast of the couple. He agreed that instead he would have them all seated at an early stage to avoid them blocking all the cams.

I did virtually all the stills coverage from the back as it simply wasn't practical to shoot anywhere else; what very limited accessibility there was at the front was blocked on one side by a Christmas tree and on the other side by a large nativity display.

The two locked off unattended cams at the front got loads of gorgeous footage which simply wasn't otherwise feasible as there were no positions suitable for manned shooting.

It really was a case of the video being a far superior product to the stills because of the physical characteristics of the church and was always going to be so regardless of the house rules.

It may have been possible to shoot using unattended stills cams at the front but that is fraught with issues whereas its perfectly straightforward with video cams.

After the ceremony the vicar appeared to be a convert - he complimented me on how unintrusive and professional the coverage had been :- )

Pete

Re: Another moment ruined
 

Unobtrussive coverage does seem to get kudos from pastors a fair amount.

I was considering making a change to how we cover the processional to something like this: 1 shooter takes an aisle seat near the middle of the church, maybe a little back. This allows to get the bride and groom's faces each during the processional.

Once the bride/parent have passed, step into the aisle and crouch to get, literally, a solid 5 second shot from low with a nice fisheye lens to get a grand looking 'take-it-all-in' shot of the entire front of the church with the bride and groom in it.

Re: Another moment ruined
 

This is a perfect example of why so many churches have rules regarding photography and videography so the service isn't disrupted ( and they do very much consider it a religious service, and want it dignified). Following the bride down the aisle is definitely not allowed. Very selfish behavior.

OTOH, even strict churches will usually work with you once they know that you know how to conduct yourself in church.

Re: Another moment ruined
 

Most of our Churches here will NOT allow anyone except the bridal party in the aisle when she is coming in or going out and that is really how it should be.

I just tuck into a pew and film from there ..also most Churches tend to leave the door open so if you are square in the aisle you shoot straight into the light so that is probably why the bride is followed in rather than walking towards you!

You can still get pretty nice shots from the pew and it doesn't spoil the bridal entry either

Chris

Re: Another moment ruined
 

I've come into this late and thought I would add my view. I usually work solo even for my video and photo joint package, although my wife will often also come along on the joint package if she isn't filming another wedding.

I always use small video cams for speed and lightness, with a double camera mount on the main tripod for two different views of the scene. I also carry an extra camera and tripod plus mini tripod, so that I can get a view from the opposite side if space and circumstances permit it. Space is usually at a premium at most UK venues for the ceremony, and in civil services it is usually the video one side with the photographer on the other. I also have a go pro which I will put fairly high up near the entrance to get the couple coming in and out.

I never worry about getting the photographer in the shot, as he is as much a part of the traditional wedding as the flowers and the outfits. In fact I will often deliberately include the photographer going about his work, bearing in mind that I do full length Doc style.

Like Chris and Peter, I much prefer doing both photos and videos as I am in complete control. As has been mentioned earlier, it is only really during the ceremony that things are hectic although I always dash from the door to the head of the aisle after getting the bride's arrival shots. I then capture the whole processional with a view of their faces. I have a DSLR around my neck and get telephoto shots with this, although usually during the ceremony in a UK church most vicars don't want flash or even shutter sounds near the couple. I also use a Lumix FZ200 for both silent stills and video, usually on the main double tripod with one of the video cams. I also frequently lift stills from the HD video if I think that the content is worth the quality drop. I present those in a separate folder so that they know what they are getting and surprisingly, they have proved very popular.

Again doing both, during the group poses, I will leave the video camera slightly to one side, usually leaving it running while I concentrate on the still pics, but altering the framing according to group sizes. Obviously a lot of that video is cut at the editing stage. I take very few stills during the speeches and first dance, as I think the video is more important at those stages.

Roger