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-   -   Do brides mind noise? (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/wedding-event-videography-techniques/521753-do-brides-mind-noise.html)

Clive McLaughlin February 19th, 2014 06:10 AM

Do brides mind noise?
So folks, I know its natural for people to want to be perfectionists, but sometimes in business, we just need to ask - what is required?

Here is my question - if you showed a bride a brighter clip of the dance at ISO 3200, and a darker clip of the dance at ISO1600 - which would they pick.

Iíve a sneaky feeling they would compromise on the noise for a brighter picture.

Anyone disagree?

Don Bloom February 19th, 2014 07:31 AM

Re: Do brides mind noise?
IMO unless the noise looks like big black dots on the screen I don't think too many brides would even notice the noise.

I think we're all starting to over think what the bride wants and are trying to produce something that can't be done in a run N gun situation which is what a wedding is. It's not Hollywood. Sometimes you just have to say "what the hell" and move on. A little grain here, a little movement there, something less than 110% sometimes just can't be helped.
Personally I've given grain that bothers me but doesn't seem to bother the bride and groom.
Of course, that's just me. ;-)

Chris Harding February 19th, 2014 07:49 AM

Re: Do brides mind noise?
They are not video critics Clive, they are brides so they don't pixel peep. They are only interested in content and they can see it was dark so as long as the content is good they are happy.

I lock my ISO on my Sony's at 2500 and then use a dimmable light on the camera so the dancers are nice and sharp and the background stays noise free.


Dave Partington February 19th, 2014 07:50 AM

Re: Do brides mind noise?
I watched a documentary last night where they had to film on the bridge of a ship in almost darkness. The picture was noisy as hell (ISO25000 kind of hell). Even though noise bothers me in my own films, I was Ok with it in theirs simply because it allowed me to see what was going on.

Sometimes we're too picky when we don't want to be embarrassed by the quality we're producing, but most of the time the viewer just assumes that is what was needed to get the shot and is looking at the content not the production.

Steve Bleasdale February 19th, 2014 08:07 AM

Re: Do brides mind noise?
Don't think they are bothered Clive if your story is good and the darkness is ambient meaning nice and low with nice low lights and maybe disco lights. They are not looking at the pixels only colours, focus, story and music, obviously if the footage is so bad you cannot see a thing with artifacts then yes they would notice. steve

Roger Gunkel February 19th, 2014 10:59 AM

Re: Do brides mind noise?

Originally Posted by Dave Partington (Post 1832886)

Sometimes we're too picky when we don't want to be embarrassed by the quality we're producing, but most of the time the viewer just assumes that is what was needed to get the shot and is looking at the content not the production.



Warren Kawamoto February 19th, 2014 08:05 PM

Re: Do brides mind noise?
Simple fact. Brides will notice noise only if YOU point it out to them.

John Knight February 20th, 2014 01:12 AM

Re: Do brides mind noise?
Wait until you find out they don't care about slider reveal shots - then your little worlds will fall apart! ;)

Chris Harding February 20th, 2014 02:24 AM

Re: Do brides mind noise?
I think what really makes little worlds fall apart, John, is a very carefully planned shallow DOF shot and the bride says "Why is my husbands face all fuzzy and out of focus?" Brides are simple creatures and as long as the bridemaid's pink dress is actually pink and not a delicate hue of orange and everyone is in focus then they are more than happy!

I still cannot fathom out why cinematic wedding films always have a pile of footage of the flowers in the Church garden or tons of shots (always on slider too) of all the accessories during the bridal prep when the photog has painstakingly gone to great length to capture them on stills. Maybe it's the photographer side emerging and they have the urge to film stationary objects in great detail yet very little of the actual bride and stuff that's actually happening around her?


Clive McLaughlin February 20th, 2014 02:51 AM

Re: Do brides mind noise?
Hey, don't be dissing slider reveals!

Off topic, but I disagree. I think my clients have chose me based on my cinematic highlights, if I gave them 100% static documentary with no interesting focus pulls or slider reveals or steadicam sweeps, they would not be happy!

Chris Harding February 20th, 2014 08:00 AM

Re: Do brides mind noise?
We are only teasing you Clive!!

Brides book you on what that see and simply whether they like what they see. However they only really look at content and tend to totally ignore the technical issue that might horrify us!!

Seriously I have never had a bride show any concern at all over dancing footage, regardless of how dark it might be. They are just happy to see themselves on "TV"


Dan Burnap February 21st, 2014 05:17 AM

Re: Do brides mind noise?
I don't even think the majority of brides are interested in the 'story' part. They know the story, they lived it. They want to see a film where they look good and where everybody else looks like they were having a good time \ happy for the couple.

I have a personal standard level for shots. If the shot is too noisy or shaky etc than the bar I have set for myself it gets fixed or dropped.

Dave Partington February 21st, 2014 05:36 AM

Re: Do brides mind noise?

Originally Posted by Dan Burnap (Post 1833195)
I have a personal standard level for shots. If the shot is too noisy or shaky etc than the bar I have set for myself it gets fixed or dropped.

I would think that most people are the same.

The question really comes down to 'how-much' noise you're prepared to tolerate before / after de-noising.

I have some test shots taken on the C100 at ISO 80,000 that looked really bad. After de-noising it was still not awesome, and some of the details had gone as part of the de-noise process, but if that had been a "can't be missed" moment a bride would probably never question it.

Would it have made it to Hollywood? Not a chance, but then they aren't paying for a Hollywood lighting crew with takes and retakes and relights etc.

This is personal opinion, and everyone is free to disagree, but "most" brides are looking for documentary memories of their day. "Some" brides want a highlights film to feel good about and share with their family and friends. "Some smaller number" of brides are looking for a Hollywood quality production too, but the ones who want it, can afford it and more importantly are actually willing to pay for it is a very tiny minority, perhaps fractions of a percent of the total number getting married.

For those who are looking for documentary memories (the majority), they are looking at the content rather than the production quality and even though some clips could be less than perfectly stable (we all aim for stable right?), and less than totally clean footage (again, we all aim high right?) as long as the audio is great and they can see themselves and family they are generally good to go.

I've never had a single complaint about production quality. Ever.

Peter Riding February 21st, 2014 05:50 AM

Re: Do brides mind noise?
For those who are looking for documentary memories (the majority), they are looking at the content rather than the production quality

Spot on. I've just watched a video from February 2006 that the videographer sent to me at the time - I did the stills. I've got to say its pretty decent even though shot in tricky low lighting inside and bright contrasty sunshine outside, and would pass muster today even though the technology has moved on by 8 years!


Chris Harding February 21st, 2014 07:17 AM

Re: Do brides mind noise?
Probably if the bride wants a cinematic wedding film as opposed to a documentary of the day, they could quite easily look closer to production quality and remember that if they did choose you for your cinematic approach, stunning slider and stedicam shots, they have never done this before so the only reference they have to compare their wedding film is your sample that you gave them or the one on your website!

If your sample video is an absolute stunner then remember you have to match or better that ..anything less means you didn't do your best. The fact that when the shot your sample it was a perfect day, perfect light and a perfect couple ...going back to the current bride who's beauty doesn't quite match the stunner you filmed in your sample and then it was an overcast dull grey day with a bit of rain to boot and voila you have a real struggle on your hands.

Even with doc style weddings which is all I do (I do do a little stedicam shoot after the ceremony with slomo and lots of eye candy) I tend to show the bride a variety of samples which gives a better overall impression of your work. I do envy the cinematic guys!! They tend to work harder and also seem to have to set a higher standard!!


Arthur Gannis February 24th, 2014 07:12 PM

Re: Do brides mind noise?
I never had a bride that minded noise, and I mean the type that is very noticeable at dark venues when the gain is up like 12db or more. Not that they don't mind it, it's like they don't NOTICE it even being there, even when you specifically pointed it out to them. But they will mind and surely take notice if your camera was pointed a few wee seconds longer at the young girl with the red dress. The groom, on the other hand......oh well, like Clark Gable in "Gone With the Wind" 'Quite frankly my dear, I don't give a damn ! "

Bernard Lau February 27th, 2014 07:52 AM

Re: Do brides mind noise?
Well, the bride is hiring us for the product that we've been producing, right?
So unless we drastically change the way we film, the bride shouldn't mind the creative choices we make. That being said, when we tried Film Convert for the film grain, the "film look" didn't really work for us.

Adrian Tan February 27th, 2014 01:36 PM

Re: Do brides mind noise?
That's interesting. When I've experimented with grain for wedding videos, there were two things: (1) visually, felt unattractive -- felt to me like a clean look was better; certainly you wouldn't want to use Film Convert with 100% grain anyway; (2) grain seemed somehow to distance the viewer from the emotions on screen, make them less immediate or less real; maybe the look is somehow too film-like.

Compare to something like Black Swan -- a very noisy film. Not only was DSLR noise intentionally used for some of the scenes, but they added more grain in post. And what was the feeling? Maybe the noise somehow visually conveyed the pressure or the madness Natalie Portman's character was feeling.

That said, the companies that actually do shoot on 8mm often produce work that feels warm and intimate. And in this case the grain helps! I think when the grain is combined with all the other film artifacts, and the shaky, dodgy camerawork, it creates the sense that these are home videos, and the look also evokes nostalgia.

Chris Harding February 27th, 2014 11:03 PM

Re: Do brides mind noise?
I just had a bride's mother want to book me for a wedding but she said her daughter wanted no camera light at all as it's intrusive. I explained that we strive to get the best lighting for video so as long as the venue are prepared to lift the lights a little during speeches then I'm happy to do it with a fast lens. I did also explain that video needs light to look good and she said that's not a problem ..just no camera light and if the video looks a bit dark we don't mind!

Guess this potential client is happy to have a little noise in the background instead of camera lights??

I actually did speeches once where the groom wanted "the light just how it is now" "no more!" I showed him the LCD and what his speeches would look like (the venue was very dark!!) and he said "perfect! I'm 100% happy with that!!" Grooms also don't seem to mind noise and a darkish image either. In these cases what I also do it limit the gain on the camera to ISO5000 on my Sony's which does give a wee bit of noise in black areas and then show them what it will come out like and then it's their decision!!


Kyle Root February 28th, 2014 07:18 AM

Re: Do brides mind noise?
Never had any complaints or concerns from clients about noise.

Back in the day when we were shooting DV (and before we bought some external lights) with Canon GL1s and XL1s, I know we routinely pushed the gain on those to the max at wedding receptions. Never had any issues.

Even now, I push the gain on my NX5 to 12db or 15db when I need to at wedding receptions. No one ever complains.

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