How can we change the norm, or are we trying to control to much
 

Ok so I ranted last week! Boring weddings! So same venue three weeks on the trot! I will try things different today I thought! So tonight I wanted to do something different! The DJ just decides to do completely the opposite of what we had just planned without telling me!!! Spoilt the whole show! Afterwards I asked him why he changed our plans without telling me? He said he spoke to the bride and groom and they did not want to do what we organised! But?? My assistant told me he heard him say to the B&G behind my back don't worry love if you don't want to do that I will talk the videographer out of it!! Did he speak to me? No!! the rat nooooo he did not!! Arhhhh what gives in uk. So how the hell can we guys get what we want new? How can we educate idiots that are completely old school! I also had a toast master who does not like me and told me so? Why I ask him? I am a pain he said, Because I want to do things no one else does? It's all to much for everyone!! Yes I say but in the USA it's the norm to get those top shots!!! Yes but I tell him you need to change from the norm! Yes but the B&G don't understand he says!!!! Jeeez I am now resenting him! Totally not in the game to please the B&G! He actually try's to now overrule everything I say to the B&G behind my back! Advice?? Cheers

Re: How can we change the norm, or are we trying to control to much
 

Hey Steve

What happens when you have a wedding you essentially plan your moves and just assume that the photog and DJ will keep to the schedule. In your case the DJ sounded he was happy to go your route but the bride didn't want it that way, and she is the ultimate boss. Maybe the DJ didn't want to upset you and tell you plans have changed again? What he should have done is say "The bride doesn't like what we want to do and she wants us to back to the original plan" It happens sadly and we just have to bite the bullet and conform.

I must admit I often try to convince the DJ to change stuff especially if the bride is say, splitting up the speeches, which means I have to drag my gear out twice.

The real answer is to do what one guy does here. He is the photog during the day and his wife is the video and then she takes on both photo and video at the reception and he is the DJ.. that way all the control is in his hands (especially if he is the MC too!!)

Taking control is not a power thing at all, we simply want the evening to run as smoothly as possible and make our job easier BUT sometimes we have to do it someone elses way even if it's stupid!

Chris

Re: How can we change the norm, or are we trying to control to much
 

Don't trust anyone and be prepared for the unexpected :) I got burned a few weeks back when setting up my tripod for the speeches and the father of the bride started talking without any warning, eventhough I asked the dj to inform me if something important was about to happen, it forced me to shoot several interviews in a row handheld.

I also let some steam of then here, it's the beginning of the season for me and I still need to get into the routine but I already am starting to get over it much quicker, you just can't always have it your way.

Like yesterday, I got chased away from the altar during the signing of the register (which is never an issue) and received a warning that if I would step near the altar again I"d be thrown out of church, now the warning was because the priest got fed up with the photog who didn't respect his request not to move when he was speaking and the photog pushed the priest aside to get a better view during the registry signing (seriously, have that on tape) :) I just happened to have something in my hand that looks like a camera and was standing next to the photog so I got treated the same way, even though I did respect the rules. This meant I had to continue shooting from a less good position, ah well, got some fun stories to tell this way.

Re: How can we change the norm, or are we trying to control to much
 

Cheers guys always great replies!! yes we carry on!! roll on next Saturday with the same toastmaster!!!!

Re: How can we change the norm, or are we trying to control to much
 

Hey Steve,

It's very very rare that all the stars and the moon and whatever else will align and that you will shoot a problem free wedding. I carry a bit of that anxiety into every wedding. Not sure if it would be helpful to talk about other vendors in your spiel when you meet with couples, and even give them a heads up about some of the challenges you've had in the past and how you like to work and why. Often the things you say go over their head but at least if you have had the discussion it's something to refer back to. For example, there's a local church that I've shot at where I know the priest refuses to wear a mic. Any new bookings for that particular chuch, I let the couples know that the priest refuses to wear a mic and it impacts the product.

I know there are video guys out there who will go along with the dj or the mc but will let them know that it will impact what they're trying to do, and that they should be the ones to explain to the bride why the product she received was not what is usually delivered. Easier said than done if you're like me, I still can't help it but take to heart some of those things that don't go well despite my best efforts.

Apart from the usual challenges that are out of your control (weather, venues etc), the attitudes of the other people you work with are a big balancing act. If I'm lucky and they're all willing to work together and help each other out (photos, venue co-ordinators, priests, dj's, mc's), then I start to get the overly helpful ones who encourage the couple to "look at the video guys camera and smile". **** no don't look at my camera, rule number 1!!!! :)

Re: How can we change the norm, or are we trying to control to much
 

Nice one stevan, cheers mate all the very best. steve

Re: How can we change the norm, or are we trying to control to much
 

It's important not to get your knickers in a knot every time something doesn't go your way! Otherwise all you do is stress and get upset. Big deal, the priest sends you off to the side of the Church and says that's the only place you can shoot from or like poor Noa you are not allowed to film the register signing (I was told to back off once but I still got the shot)

Things will happen that you feel have screwed up your carefully planned workflow and throws you a curved ball and apart from making a big fuss and becoming the centre of attention, I just replan my actions. OK, it's not what I wanted to do and it might be no longer be convenient for me but I do like to keep the peace and be shown as the "unflappable video guy" The only thing I WILL do if a plan change is going to affect my shots is to mention it to the couple (eg: "the priest has insisted now that I shoot from behind the pillar so my coverage might not be as great as from where we were originally going to shoot ...it's no big deal but I'm just letting you guys know") That way IF you do have coverage issues the couple have been told about it and because you didn't yell and scream when told to move position you still stay the good guy!

Then again if it's a minor irritation like change of timing I just suck it in and get back to work ...I used to stress big time in the old days and would arrive home a physical and mental wreck so that simply wasn't worth it and I soon changed my attitude no matter how big a dumb ass the person causing the problem was. You can only shoot what you can shoot so don't freak out if everything doesn't go your way all the time.

Chris

Re: How can we change the norm, or are we trying to control to much
 

Reminds me of a saying we once had on a road trip - "be cheerfully flexible, not flexibly cheerful"... subtle but huge difference when things go a little "unplanned"...

The pro "goes with the flow", it's just part of the "job"... don't let the "artist" take over and try to run things, artists are crazy <wink>.

Re: How can we change the norm, or are we trying to control to much
 

Is that me? That might be me, though we don't do photography (you think my video isn't expert, wait til you see my photos!)...

I am an MC and DJ, for 16 years and 600 weddings (and 2nd video shooter to my wife). I'm very much the guy who tries to get things running smoothly. HOWEVER, during the planning stages, I do a fair amount of feeding ideas to the brides and seeing what they like. Many stay plain, but you get a few who love an idea and are excited to go with it. For them, I'll do just about anything because its so much more fun to work with.

The key is to come from a place of helping, and not pushing. I send out an email newsletter with an idea or two (pics or video if possible) every month, or more. If they like something, they know to contact me for a full explanation (if necessary).

The main thing is to let them know how it benefits them. That means the bride, to start, and, if possible, any vendors it inconveniences. I run into that A LOT because of my ideas. But they are all to benefit the B&G, and their guests - usually get more fun out of the night.

Re: How can we change the norm, or are we trying to control to much
 

Remember if you are a videographer your experience of weddings is very much limited to those couples who are predisposed to all that shooting a video entails. Video is important to them and most are willing - up to a point - to do what is necessary to ensure you can do your job whether that be giving you a detailed timeline and sticking to it, acting and re-enacting setups etc.

But that is very much NOT the way most couples in the much larger no-video world want their day to go. And it is that much larger world that the photographers, toastmasters, DJs, venue managers are used to - that is their reality. You are not their reality so you are a pain to them.

All you can really do is try to get the key players to co-operate with you - such as getting 5 minutes warning before the speeches are to start - and be ready to roll with at least one cam at the drop of a hat.

At one recent wedding at a high-end venue where things always go like clockwork ..... well. The speeches were to be at the end. Fortunately i was all set up with 4 cams and 3 table audio recorders - I just needed to wiz round to turn them on. The start is always after the tables are cleared of desert and coffee and toasting drinks served. But the manager took it upon himself to start the speeches during desert - because we were running late he later explained. I saw from his body language that he looked like he was going to make an announcement so i rushed over and caught him just in time. All was well. Phew!

At another wedding for which the bride had micro-managed things so much prior to the day that the MC had refused to do anything more for her, the 1st speech started way earlier than scheduled. Then there was an gap of several minutes whilst the DJ played some music. Then another speaker. Then more music. And so on until there had been 8 speakers. And all the while guests were eating so there were no charming cutaways of guests to be had. On the plus side I'd tapped into the DJ's board so the audio which could have been a disaster was in fact great :- )

Pete

Re: How can we change the norm, or are we trying to control to much
 

"How can we change the norm, or are we trying to control to much"

What is "the norm" and why does it need changed? I see no point.

I collaborate with other vendors, I do not try and plan everything out. I will try and exert influence, but in the end I defer to others. I then film what happens.

From the way you described things in your post, it sounds like you are experiencing control issues. If you try and back off you may be happier.

If you are hearing complaints from others, such as the toastmaster you mention in your post, than that may be a sign that you might want to listen.

Re: How can we change the norm, or are we trying to control to much
 

Maybe your right Jeff! I actually think this new era of wedding cinematography we are becoming a little intrusive! Maybe I will sit back let it happen rather than be to creative and controlling! Good point.
I actually think that (are we becoming to intrusive as the modern cinematographer) is a good question on its own for another thread!

Re: How can we change the norm, or are we trying to control to much
 

I do see an obtrusiveness with many vendors that I'm not comfortable with Steve. I think there are too many trying to tug on the bride and run things at times. Luckily for most of my events the photographers are top notch and run things quite well during the first part of the day and the DJs or planners are in charge the rest. That suits me fine. I will speak up when necessary, and I try and choose my battles. I sometimes need doors closed to block light, or curtains drawn, or whatever, but I usually get what I need done.

I find it more satisfying to be the agreeable one and smiling during the day. My customers seem to like to see me smiling and having fun rather than to see a scrunched up face trying to make everything perfect, being serious all the time. But then I don't make the big bucks either, but I truly don't care. I would rather have fun and make less than to be pushing pushing pushing all the time. I did that for years as a young man and I just don't enjoy trying to run things anymore.

Re: How can we change the norm, or are we trying to control to much
 

Good points Jeff and ones i will take on board, yes it maybe that i could fall in to the trap of being to serious to get what i want. I am glad you work with top notch photogs because the ones i am getting are .......

Re: How can we change the norm, or are we trying to control to much
 

If we try to change anything we make sure its not obvious. We always change things to go our way and often without telling anyone. So many people like to tell us "Oh, well the video guy yesterday didnt need it doing that way so why do you?". So we just do things like turning off lights, moving decor or getting things done our way without saying anything.

That said, we always have plan B and often C.

Stand here to do your speeches we say. But we always get ready for them to walk off with the mic or as many dads do, not use a mic at all.