Re: Any one only offering highlights?
 

The point about the speeches is a good one. I leave personal speeches in the edit or at least as extras on the dvd. Here many weddings are still in catholic churches and the majority of the speeches are really readings from the bible. Most couples find it boring and make the point that they don't want to have all this in the video nor do they want most of the stuff the priest spouts about families and how woman was made for man ( as opposed man being made for man, woman for woman and various other options!) and all that. None of it is very personal and is really just the same lecture they'd give to any couple. When I see the footage I always see the couples just switching off, looking bored or occasionally frowning. Sometimes I get to film what I call 'happy catholic weddings' where the priest actually knows the couple and they go to church regularly and they all like singing together etc. In those cases I do a longer montage using almost all the readings, the personal speeches by the priest, the music etc.
Civil weddings are often the most interesting as they can be personalised a lot more. They are also a lot shorter. There are parts that everyone wants cut out and that is the 2-3 minutes reading the law which explains how a civil marriage should work ( equal rights etc).
To get to the point, if it is personal people seem to want it in the final cut, if it's religious dogma or civil law then they don't.

Re: Any one only offering highlights?
 

Hey Roger

I'm on your side of course as we do offer very similar packages. There is no easy answer to your question of course but I would suspect that the wedding film maker was previously a photographer in most cases and has discovered "hey, I can shoot video on this camera" If you look carefully at short form you can see a definite photographer style as opposed to a motion picture style. The opening bridal prep shots are normally a dead giveaway as they have static objects with panning/ slider shots used on them. I used to be (and still am) a photographer before video became practical and found I had a huge amount to learn about making motion pictures so I made sure my videos were simply not glorified slideshows but featured people, action and most importantly audio rather than a romantic song with images set to it. Then again I shot all my photos on 220 roll film and my Mamiya's definitely couldn't shoot video!!

I'm not saying the wedding film style is wrong by any means ..all we have is a new choice for brides that simply want the wedding covered with images (moving or static) set to music. Sure some bride absolutely love the style so let's be thankful that we have people that can supply it and then others prefer to have their wedding covered as we feel it should be with full audio and traditional motion picture coverage.

Our job is to provide what the bride wants not want we think she wants and as long as we do that then both styles have a place in the industry

Chris

Re: Any one only offering highlights?
 

A part of a famous quote from someone that is not around anymore but his approach did pay off and it does give something to think about when we provide a service for our client.

The quote:

Re: Any one only offering highlights?
 

This leads me to the question 'How do you put together your highlights sequence?' Do you string it out in a linear fashion or play around with the timing? How much of the ceremony and speeches do you include? Do you always interview the bride and groom in striving for that 'audio gold' moment?

Re: Any one only offering highlights?
 

+10 Robert

Re: Any one only offering highlights?
 

How far are you drilling down into the stats to see whats really going on? A click-through on its own is meaningless, you really need to ascertain not only how many unique visitors there were but how many watched for several minutes. I think you can do that with vimeo, not sure about the current level of data available with youtube or facebook. I would be impressed if a significant proportion of those numbers are viewers watching more than as much time as is needed to see if they are in it and what they looked like :- )

Video is more popular in Roberts part of the world than in the UK - a heck of a lot more popular, but even so I would be surprised if the "true" viewers are in large numbers. My own opinion is based on ooooooh billions of consultations with primarily photography enquirers in which we talk about what they are looking to have. Quite often they mention friends wedding they've been to, not in a complimentary way as regards the choices of vendors etc.

I meant to add in my earlier post that I think if you are to have a highlights reel as well as longform, then the highlights one needs to be unique in its own way not just a shorter version of the longform with bits chopped out. But to capture for these different styles at the same wedding introduces its own set of challenges; extra kit and extra set up and breakdown times, a 2nd and even a 3rd shooter. That in turn bumps up the cost plus risks changing the ambience of the day from wedding to an on-location film shoot with all the scripting storyboarding repeating etc that this brings.

I'm not really sure whats so daunting about a one hour or even a two hour wedding video for the client. I insert lots of chapter markers (using Vegas Pro then into DVD Architect Pro). I've just finished one for a 38 minute church ceremony. There are 16 chapter markers within it which the client can cycle through in nano-seconds using the chapter buttons on their DVD remote to find whatever part they want e.g. the bride making her vows, exchange of rings, 3 separate readings. If they play an MP4 on a computer or tablet of phone they cannot generally use chapter buttons but they have a scrub-bar instead to rapidly skip to the part they want. I don't do DVD menus as such any more. Really who ever uses a menu on a DVD? Really? Are your wedding menus cheesy? Be honest. Yes you. Just skip around with the chapter buttons :- )

I quite understand why a client would not want to feed her friends a one or two hour epic. But is she having it for her or for them?

Pete

Re: Any one only offering highlights?
 

This is the approach I've been taking lately - shooting for two completely different types of videos during the day.

Long form documentary is my main deal because that's what clients in my area seem to prefer.

But, I hire "creative specialists" as I call them, to come in and use their DSLRs - Steadicams/Ghosts and Sliders to get that "beautiful footage" as best they can.

So far it's worked out awesome. They do their thing and I do my thing.

I use most of their stuff for the vimeo highlights and then the majority of my stuff for the long form edits. So it ends up being two completely different products and the shots in one generally don't appear in the other.

The last highlights reel I put on vimeo had over 400 hits in 3 days! I was pretty impressed by that. I definitely want to keep doing the short highlights because it really gets the name out there.

Re: Any one only offering highlights?
 

No one will show us how long they watch the video, so this past week's posting, I finally wised up and sent the bride a link to a page on my website with their video embedded. That way, I can use Google Analytics to see how long someone looks at the page.

So, early results show 21 unique people clicked on the page. 18 clicked on the video.
I don't know how many finished it, but I can see that the average time watching the 16:06 minute video is 13:41

Not too shabby. It will be interesting to see how that shapes up over time, with more information. This one was a small wedding. The few I'll be posting were not.

Page in question:
Jill & Andrew’s Wedding Film | RNB Weddings by Robert & Nomani Benda

Re: Any one only offering highlights?
 

I agree with Pete that a full length video doesn't need to be daunting. There is often a perception from those that specialise in highlights that the long form is boring and friends wouldn't want to watch it. I would have to agree with Pete that proper use of chapter markers makes it very easy to skip through, so that those that don't want to watch it all don't have to.

I like options, and I like my clients to have the option to watch as little or as much as they want. A shortform gives no options at all, they get what you choose to give them. I would be mortified if I spent ages putting together a carefully crafted shortform, only for the Bride to say 'What happened to Grandad's speech?' Who am I to decide what is important or not to the family.

This thread has been very interesting and made me think that the term Wedding Video is really no longer a catch all that is appropriate. What is better, a sit down spread or a buffet, A chocolate family or a sweet trolley, a band or a disco. The answer of course is that they are all different and none is better than the other. Perhaps it is time to just go in different directions with a documentary of your wedding day or a fun summary, neither being mutually exclusive and both being totally different products. I suppose that nobody who really wants a summary would choose a documentary instead, and vice versa, but they may well want both ;-)

Roger

Re: Any one only offering highlights?
 

I think that perception comes from personal experience/preference as swell. For me, I would be bored sitting through a friend's wedding documentary. If they had a short form video then I would be much more likely to watch it and stay engaged.

I also think there's a huge difference between chapter markers and being able to watch the parts you want and a well crafted short form wedding. The short form will/should have a great flow to it that skipping around won't have.

Someone earlier mentioned how much a video someone actually watches. If you use wistia then it does give you analytics that show when people tune out, what they skip, etc. I used them for a couple months, but eventually found it too expensive. Interestingly, a majority of the people who watched my highlight films would skip the ceremony/vows and would watch the rest.

Re: Any one only offering highlights?
 

I am a corporate event guy, not a wedding guy. But no one ever posts about events here so I read about all your wedding stuff. As an outsider my view might be a little different so I don’t post a lot here. Let me tell you something. I don’t do weddings because what you guys do is damn hard to do. I have nothing but respect for you. I think about doing weddings but every time I read what you guys post I get discouraged about it. This thread alone made me wonder how many old school, pure documentary wedding shooters have given up rather than keep up in recent years.

I love keeping up with technology and change, but not everyone does. Am I right in thinking that just in the recent years your now competing with DSLR guys that don’t even know weddings the way you do but they come in and shoot a few minutes of “flash, bang, wiz” and are gone. And that could have been your gig? And you guys essentially edit two complete films, a long and a short. You tell the whole story in both. You deal with brides, parents, drunks, and music rights. You write complex contracts. Many of you are SPC and you still go out with sliders, stabilizers, multi-cameras, and full audio kit. You work primarily on Saturdays. For many of you it is seasonal so you must do all you can when you can. There is nothing about that business model that sounds fun to me. I know most of you find it satisfying, I might, I’m not sure. But I do know for sure it is not easy! You have my respect!

Steve

Re: Any one only offering highlights?
 

@Daniel- I'm quite sure that you wouldn't want to sit down and watch a friends full length documentary wedding, but then if the friend wanted that style of video, your requirements would be totally irrelevent. As regards analytical stats, they only give information on what people watch on websites, which in my experience is just getting an idea of what is on offer. Nobody is going to sit and watch an hour of someone elses wedding on line if they can skip through it. Unfortunately people get fixated on meaningless stats and I would rather know what family and friends of my real clients actually like watching.

@Steven- as a long term documentary wedding producer, I have no concerns whatsoever that the new DSLR quick video guys are taking my gig. If I was being asked if I could film cinematic shorts and was turning them down, them I may be worried, but the fact is I am not being asked. The surge in highlight videos seems to be mainly in the US, but if the enquiries come in, I can offer the service. I find that the documentary style really takes no longer to film as I am there all day anyway and it doesn't take me any longer to edit, it is just a different technique. I just happen to feel that doc style is a much more valuable record of their day, that will grow in personal value as the years go by.

Roger

Re: Any one only offering highlights?
 

Roger, just to be clear, I do deliver both. I figure the full length video is for the bride/groom, and their immediate family, maybe a few close friends. The 15-20 minute video is also for them, repeat viewings, but also for sharing with a wider circle.

The other way I explain it is... the full length is what actually happened. The 15 minuter is more about how it felt.

I decided that by delivering both, I offer maximum value for the client.

Re: Any one only offering highlights?
 

Zing!

Roger, I was responding to your assertion that the short form guys have this notion that friends wouldn't want to watch a documentary film. I'm agreeing by adding that it also comes from personal preference. If that friend wants a documentary film or not is a different topic.

I don't know what you're stats you are talking about. Wistia shows you that data on the video that you put online, so the stats that come from those videos is mostly friends and family. It's good data to see when people tune out, etc.

Re: Any one only offering highlights?
 

I always had the notion that wedding videos whether short or long form fell into the same category as when the wife says "George, set up the projector and show our guests our holiday slides from the last 3 years"

To be perfectly honest if I was visiting somewhat who recently got married and they hauled out their wedding disks I would make a hasty excuse to leave.

I'm sure the bride might watch her video (or just the highlights) a couple of times until it's put away on the shelf and maybe only dragged out years later for the grand kids. The groom probably watches it once (under duress) and that's about it!

The answer here is so simple really! Just give the bride what she likes and move on to the next wedding. If brides in your area scramble for a short form style then give it to them or if they want "absolutely everything that happens" then simply oblige! Regardless of style we still have to been on site the same amount of time so does it really matter which style is "better" ??

Re: Any one only offering highlights?
 

Yeah Chris, you and I might if we went alone, but wives tend to want to see how the bride and bridesmaids looked in their dresses and, for some reason, usually want to see the cake! Ha! A bit like fancying a beer and looking at a picture of a pub instead methinks.

Dave

Re: Any one only offering highlights?
 

Daniel-regarding stats, I was referring to stats in general as I am not convinced that many people in the UK are uploading 90-120 minute videos and expecting anyone to sit down and watch all the way through. So stats are unlikely to tell me anything useful about that type of video. I never upload my client's videos, so Wistia is just a name I have seen on here but as it appears to be a video hosting site, I would assume that stats it supplies are only related to subscribers to the service. If it is something that you have a use for then great, but not for me.

Chris- I would agree that I am really not interested in watching a friends wedding video as the family would mean little to me, however if it was a close family member's wedding that I had perhaps attended, I would feel totally differently about it. I often come across previous clients and a few months ago filmed a wedding where there were five previous client couples. I took the opportunity of asking them about their video and whether they still watch it. They all surprised me by telling me it comes out once every few months and always on wedding anniversaries, plus kids sometimes get it out. They also interestingly all agreed that the photo album just sits in a cupboard gathering dust. 2 of the couples hadn't looked at the album in the last 6 years but had seen the video quite often. I asked them why and they replied that it is always the same, whereas with the video there always seems to be something that they hadn't noticed or heard before. I find that a very common reaction from previous couples.

Dave- you are absolutely right, the women always want to see the different shoes and outfits that the girls were wearing and of course the cake. The girls also seem to like to hear the general comments and conversation, probably because they are more emotionally involved than the guys.

Roger

Re: Any one only offering highlights?
 

Hi Roger

I certainly don't watch more than a few minutes of an online clip and most bridal forums seem to convince me that neither do brides. They might watch a 2 minute or even 3 minute trailer but then they move on! It's like window shopping! You take a quick look and if you like what you see you make enquiries if you don't like what you see you look for others.

The advertising gurus have the right idea. You need to get your message across in under 30 seconds to keep the client interested ..in fact according to the ad industry you have a mere 30 seconds to make an impression so a trailer with establishing shots of trees and flowers and fancy titles probably won't hold a bride's attention for more than 30 seconds so if you are not into the hard core stuff of the wedding by then you have lost!!

Dave?? It would take more than one beer for me to have to sit down and watch 2 hours of wedding video but then again to incur the wrath of the wife might be worse. I must admit I watch a bit of someone elses wedding video to see how the videographer handles it. In fact I do the same with Hollywood movies too which is why my wife doesn't take me any more! She has tears in her eyes and I'm freaking out about the poor camera movement or continuity!

Re: Any one only offering highlights?
 

Hi Kyle,

I had tried to contact you via private message but then I read that they are disabled on this site, so I'm guessing it did not go through. I'm wondering if you can give me some advice as to how you got to the point where you're able to book weddings for $2000-$5000. I'm in Charlottesville, VA and there are tons of weddings in this area, but I'm not making nearly as much as I'd like per wedding. Here is my website for reference: Silver Streak Weddings - Charlottesville Wedding Videography and Cinematography My top package (The Orchid Package) is $1895 and while I've booked 7 weddings for 2015 only two have booked the Orchid package. The rest have booked either the Daisy Package ($1295) or the Lily Package ($1695).

Do you have any advice for how I can get to the point where I can book weddings where the brides are paying me closer to what you're making? Do you think that it's wise to simply raise my prices and see how it goes? Or have you raised your prices a little bit each year until you got to the point where brides are willing to pay $4900?

If you don't mind sharing, how many weddings do you typically book each year? Do you advertise on Weddingwire or other sites? Or do you mostly get traffic through referrals?

Any help would be appreciated as I really would like to make more money for all of the hard work that myself and my crew put into each wedding video.

Thanks,

Mike Silverman

Re: Any one only offering highlights?
 

I guess it depends in what part of the world you live, I charge 1800 dollar and that is about as high as you can go here as most another videographers in my country are around that price, often cheaper. 5000 dollar for a wedding would be unthinkable, at least not if you plan on making a living out of it.

Re: Any one only offering highlights?
 

Michael,

I got your Email message too, but will reply here so everyone can see.

It's funny you mention pricing, because I just updated all my stuff yesterday afternoon for 2015.

Things to keep in mind:
(1) This is not my full time gig. Or even really a part time gig. I do it because I find filming weddings fun and I enjoy the challenge of trying to be creative in putting something together

(2) I am 100% ok with not booking any gigs. Would I like to book some? - Sure. But if not, ok. A lot has changed in the almost 15 years I've been doing this. I went from being single to being married with kids. That all changed my perspective on exactly how much time I want to be spending away on a Saturday. As such, I'm in an experimenting phase to see what is the max I can get.

(3) My previous prices were $750, $2,000, and $3,500. For 2014, I had 1 $3,500, 2 $2,000, and 3 $750. So I did 6 paid weddings this year. I also did a couple of freebies though in Jan/Feb 2014 to try out a bunch of new gear. So anyways, 6 paid gigs. - The 2 of the expensive ones were in August, and I'm just now finishing the second one up. I have another expensive one in Oct that I just started on.

So, my new prices for 2015 are $4,900, $2,900, and $900. We'll see how that works out. lol I have no weddings booked for next year yet. But then again, I've found that most people don't hire the videographer until the last minute anyway. At least, that's been the vast majority of my encounters.

(4) While I have info at many many online wedding vendor sites, including wedding wire, I don't pay for any of them. Although, I have been contacted by wedding wire about 1/2 a dozen times this year trying to get me to sign up. I have a friend on Nashville who uses wedding wire for wedding videography and he says it gets him jobs. But for me I'm not sure I need it.

(5) I have found my best source of work has been either previous client referrals or wedding photographers. For wedding photographers, it's my belief that you want to try to align yourself with the ones who are the most expensive. Because, whoever is hiring them, likely has money, and will have money to pay for video. If you "befriend" a lot of low end of middle of the road photographers (in terms of pricing), then you're going to have hard time making a pricey video sale.

Of course, the flip side to that is, if you're ok with doing a lot of weddings at your current prices (which quite frankly is about the range I was up until 2014, I would imagine photographers priced in the middle of the road would be good sources of clients) When we started into this, we would routinely do 15-20 weddings a year.

(6) The last little tidbit that I picked up on this year is - Brides are busy. Very busy. Not only with wedding planning but life stuff. Several of my clients were involved in building new houses or moving and looking etc etc. I think probably the best thing you can do is try to keep things as simple, clean, and easy as possible when it comes to your website and offerings (I am still working on this myself). Personally, I don't want to overwhelm the client with option after option. I prefer the "here's the price - you get everything" approach.

That's mostly what I changed for 2015 - I found I was always making the Cinema Poster anyways and also taking a lot of photos and doing highlight reels, regardless of if they paid for it or not. So I just bumped my prices and added all that to the 2 main packages. This helps cover the cost of Vimeo and SmugMug, assuming I can sell any packages this year. Ceremony only is kind of the odd man out, and I debated not even offering it. But, it is an easy money maker and a lot less stress than the other 2 bigger packages.

The only add on option for 2015 is Rehearsal coverage - $1,000 and Raw footage on a USB3.0 hard drive for $500 [which I pretty much sell to every client at that price])

(7) For me, it comes down to, I'd rather do 1 very nice wedding at a high dollar price, then 2 or 3 smaller ones (thus tying up multiple Saturdays).

(8) This all started because I watched Ray Roman's 3-day wedding cinematography seminar on Creative Live in Nov 2013. I suggest if you have a large block of free time, you check it out. (You'll have to buy it now). I learned a ton from him over those 3 8-hour days.

Hope that helps some! and good luck!

Re: Any one only offering highlights?
 

Kyle,

Thanks so much for all this very useful information. I have seen some of Ray Roman's clips online and I remember he saying that the risk involved with raising prices is that you may not book as many weddings but the advantage is that you get paid more for each wedding. So it definitely seems like there's a balance that has to be taken into account. For me, video production is my full time job and while I do other types of videos besides weddings, I need to be sure that I am booking enough weddings to make a living. Last year my prices were much lower ($800, $1000, $1200) so for 2015 my lowest package is higher than my top package was for my 2014 weddings. We ended up shooting 27 weddings in 2014 and I would like to bring that number down while getting paid more per wedding, so I'm hoping to do closer to 15-20 for 2015.

I actually have written on my to do list to watch some of Ray Roman's videos, so I will take a look at the cost of the seminar you mentioned as right now work is slowing down so I'll have time to watch it. I've also joined a local wedding vendor networking group and I'm planning to attend their holiday party in December to network with some of the photographers in town.

Thanks again for the response!

Mike

Re: Any one only offering highlights?
 

This may be slightly OT but I figured I'd revive a prior related thread rather than create a new one. My question is about etiquette with social media and highlight trailers. For those of you active on social media, and you posting & tagging the B&G on your own FB page? Or are you letting them see if first ( I would think so). If you're letting them see it first, are you then letting it up to them to post it on their wall, (are you implying, reminding them they can do it in your email to them?).

Also, how did you go about setting the FB page up. I feel like I missed the boat on it this season & had a few decent shoots. Not sure if I should start my page up & add them all & their videos, or just start going forward. One bride friended me on FB, but hasn't shared her video on her timeline. I'd like to build my page, but not sure whether to add her video, or just begin adding them going forward. And if so will she wonder why I never added hers.

Re: Any one only offering highlights?
 

For the first part, always show the B&G their video first. I upload to Vimeo, then send them the link. THEN I post it to my website's blog and our own Facebook, and send them the links to share with their friends.

Fewer and fewer young people are active on Facebook, so you won't always get a lot of shares, or they won't bother posting it at all. That's OK as long as they watch the darn thing.

Re: Any one only offering highlights?
 

Thanks Rob.

OT - that line "Fewer and fewer young people are active on Facebook" just sounds amazing. I'm sure its becoming true, however its amazing how rapidly Facebook went from being for young Gen-Yers & Millenials, to now becoming too old?! We're talking like 5 years.

Re: Any one only offering highlights?
 

I don't send highlights to the bride and groom first. I usually will tease that it will be online the next day on Facebook, twitter, instagram to try to build some hype. Then I will post it on Vimeo and Facebook the next day.

I usually will pay to have it boosted, even just 1 or $2 helps. You can get pretty specific about the demographic that you want Facebook to put the video in front of. It will usually get at least 600+ views just depending on how active that person is on Facebook.

I really think it's worth setting up a Facebook page. While you may see less people actively engaged on Facebook it is still a huge platform that can get your name seen where it otherwise wouldn't. Especially considering it's at no cost to you to make page and put your videos up.

Re: Any one only offering highlights?
 

The social media aspect is indeed very interesting.

2014 was the first year I actually used FB because it was the first year I did "highlights".

I posted it and let the couples tag themselves.

In the future - I'm now leaning towards pushing only highlights. I actually have a client who hired me for August that specifically hired me because she thought she was getting highlights like are on my website. As a result I clarified some language there... but in the end, she was happy getting the regular long form, and upgraded to a highlight reel for $750. Sweet.