I hate these new led lights!
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Last wedding had one of the worst lighteffects I had to deal with during a first dance in years, the dj had a set of 4 very powerfull beams (about 30cm in diameter and contained a lot of smaller led lights) that could rotate into all directions on his side, that was the only lightsource used during the first dance.
Before the first dance the floor was flooded with a red light that was just awefull, I ask him if he could add some white light or at least switch between different colour which was ok by him. The first dance starts and the lights are....red, I had to set my gh3 to 6400 iso because he dimmed the lights and it was very dark, then 30 seconds into the dance he floods the floor with a harsh white light and all I see is extreme overexposure so I had to stop and reset to 800 iso, then a few seconds later he kills the light and by that I mean it was pitch black for a few seconds, then he switches to a stroboscoop effect and then back to a dimmed red, so again I need to set a higher iso but now pick 1600 iso expecting him to switch at random which he did. After reviewing the footage the red part looks awefull, their face literally glow and the difference in detail in hugh when he switches to another colour. Here are 2 framegrabs taking during the first dance which are maybe just 5 seconds apart... |
Re: I hate these new led lights!
Just reminds me that no matter how long you've been doing this there's always something that takes you by surprise at a crucial moment.
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Re: I hate these new led lights!
Yet another reason I try to talk people out of me staying past the speeches.
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Re: I hate these new led lights!
Yep,
Around here, the DJ's have been purchasing these crappy cheap plate looking LED lights, the're terrible for video and I often will speak to the DJ and tell him if he uses certain lighting, then it will affect the video. I would send that DJ your frame grabs and let him know how it affected your video. DJ lighting is one my main conversation with the bride and groom. Most DJs around here are pretty good, but then you find those hacks that do it with cheap lighting. |
Re: I hate these new led lights!
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Look DJ how funky! The left top frame is one from during his stroboscope action.
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It where these lights
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Noa, your story reminds me that, as a DJ, I can charge a premium, not because I'm that good, but because so many DJs are just that terrible.
Seriously. WTF. Its bad enough he's not being considerate of the photographer or videographer. Then, its incredibly tacky that he's doing this stuff during a first dance (which, at least around here, is a slow song). As a side note, I will say that doing video helped me see a few mistakes. For instance, I never put the house lights too dark for the first dance(s). And instead of just DJ lights on my side, I now have light coming from the guest side, too, so that they're not seeing silhouettes. |
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It's not the first time I have to deal with this, I have usable footage, that's not the problem, I only need to cut out the parts where I had to reset my exposure because I was on a steadicam. This was actually the same venue that cut all the lights 2 years ago when the couple first entered the venue, it was dark outside, there was candle light at the tables and plenty of extra ceiling light, the couple gets called in and boom, they kill all light leaving me with with candle lit tables only and a camera that had been preset to the previous light situation. Luckily the couple did a large round so I was able to catch up and get some footage but I don't like being lucky, that doesn't always work out alright :)
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Re: I hate these new led lights!
I'm coming to the conclusion that I might stop doing the dancing part altogether, the last few I've done were pretty bad.
Either that, or consultation with the couple, but I dare say there would be a good few venue managers/DJ/Bands that would go ahead anyway and spray the place with crazy light. |
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I hate them, but after all these years I just don't worry about it, it is out of my control and not my problem if it all goes wrong. Before the first dance though, I always mount an LED light on the camera and if the lighting is really low or a peculiar colour I just turn it on anyway. If venues and DJs aren't prepared to work with me for that first dance moment, then I will do my best to look after myself.
Roger |
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For what it's worth, I do run two Frezzi fill lights; one on my steadicam and one on a tripod. They're no match for the DJ lights but they do help if I maneuver around the dj lights. |
Re: I hate these new led lights!
I live with them too! However I do have a few DJ's who ask me if I want the LED lights off ..nice guys, if only all were like that. The way I see it is that the bride hired him so she cannot expect pristine footage at the first dance (I'm outta there afterwards so the DJ has the floor once I'm gone)
This is one situation where it does help to have an on camera light! I make sure the DJ's desk/lights of behind me so my back at least is shielding the couple from them ..I stay close to them and full wide and make sure my on-cam light is doing as much as it can to light their faces . |
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I just might post some quotes from this thread to a DJ message board I frequent. Maybe a couple of guys will learn something.
I guess having almost total control over the lighting is the one benefit when I'm both the DJ and the videographer. My wife and I just got back from a wedding doing both. |
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Re: I hate these new led lights!
Our ideal is to create a cinematic gem but the reality isn't a movie set that we have full control over. The best you can do is try to anticipate these sort of things, educate the client so their expectations will in line with the end results. I come across this in theatrical performances. Well lit even lighting yields the best video but if all you care about is dramatic artistic effects that the live audience will appreciate so be it. Same here maybe the clients is more interested in dramatic lighting than what's optimal for video. Honestly it's unreasonable to expect a layman to understand the dynamic limitations of video and it's implications on what the dj might do if it's not explained.
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Re: I hate these new led lights!
Perhaps it's time to add that extra clause in the contract. We've always had the one about photographers getting in the way, family and friends blocking the shots, crazy venue lighting etc but perhaps it's time for :
"if your DJ does nasty stuff with lights your first dance will look crap and it's not our fault" type of thing! |
Re: I hate these new led lights!
I have a clause in my contract that covers anything outside my control. Are there really couples out there who are gonna sue for weird lighting in the 1st Dance, given they hired the DJ in the first place. Most only do a few twirls anyway and then grab the guests in for comfort and those who put a lot of effort in usually consult me beforehand. I find flashes from cameras to be more intrusive as at least the lighting was a deliberate part of the 1st Dance and not a side effect of people taking photos.
I am thinking of providing couples with a list of common issues, from phones and tablets blocking shots in the aisle, Church restrictions, Guests blocking shots and lighting. As long as you can prove the couple were fully aware of potential problems before the day, I feel I'm safely covered on the unlikely event they do make a fuss. Of course its annoying to see potential good footage not turn out as well as you'd hope, but frankly shooting Weddings fulltime, I've gotten use to such moments of disappointment. |
Re: I hate these new led lights!
I set up my own lighting for the 1st dance - I tell the DJ not to use the LEDs and most of the are pretty good but the venue always turns the lights down so I always have a backup
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I will say that, when a DJ posted his 1st dance video gig log recently, and he was doing bad DJ lighting like that, pretty much every called him out on it. |
Re: I hate these new led lights!
I have to smile because you wedding guys are now discovering for the first time these kinds of problems. In the events world these things have been able to cause problems for a long time, and to help prevent it, we use proper technical riders, that get shared. It's very popular now to use lots of back light, facing the audiences, and these shine in the lenses of the cameras out front. So the Lighting designer circulates their plans, the video people look at them and choose appropriate positions, or talk to the designers and work these things out. where solving the problem will be tricky, the video people give the lighting people a monitor so they can work together. Now costs are coming down and the DJs can now have lighting effects they have never had before - and frequently their unique selling point is the lighting effects, that may well have been what the bride liked?
Of course, the DJ thinks they are the most important, and the photographer thinks they are, and the video people the same. In truth, they are all doing their best, as individuals. The wedding industry has not yet moved into interdepartmental cooperation, because they work individually, in separate and sometimes competing compartments. If the DJ has spent considerable money on HIS contribution, it's going to be difficult to convince him you want bright even light. He will want to do HIS best, which may well be at odds from YOUR best. It is not reasonable to assume your own requirement out trumps his. In fact it may well do, but without the proper planning to put this things into print, who can tell. These 'horrible' lights are a fact of life now, and the bright blue and red washes they can produce will zap quite a few cameras that cannot cope. Perhaps we should blame the camera manufacturers for not making their products compatible, because we are discovering some makes seem to be quite awful with LED spike, while others handle them much better. In the events world we're also seeing the controllers doing amazing things with strobing and blinders - and once the DJ people start replicating this the wedding video people are going to go mad! When you are in the room, the effect with the beams in haze is stunning. In the camera, things are quite different. Weddings are going to start to have to get coordinated if they want these things minimised. The video is NOT the most important, unless the bride says so - and my view from outside is that the video is becoming less, and the actual live event more? |
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Although I hate certain color I don't mind that much as long as they keep the light intensity the same which didn't happen the last wedding and then the light color is not such an issue anymore but you are constantly battling in changing your exposure and I just don't like to shoot in auto exposure in such challenging situations. I don't expect any changes in the future and expect it to get only worse, I guess this thread was a just a way to vent before I move on to the next wedding with equal problems :) |
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Paul, that's a typically smug non wedding guy point of view you have there. :) Do I think the video is the most important part of the day - of course not. On the other hand, delivering a Professional video is my trade and I have to look out for it on the day as frankly no one else will.
These new lights can be a problem and obviously is going to be discussed here. Most comments here seem to suggest it's not always the fact they're being used as such, its that they're being used badly. Co-ordination with the DJ in the manner you suggest is not always as easy as you imply in the Wedding industry and not without having to charge more to cover the increase work this would entail before the day. Frankly I'd live with the lights. I've only had one evening Reception spoilt by lighting and that wasn't the DJ, but the venue's dimmed lights that caused these lines to run down the image; though only on the GH2s and GH3 - on the GH4 this was minimised to only a few shots if my camera was pointed up at the ceiling, so easily avoided. Like any event filming, there are challenges and frustrations to overcome, and yes people are going to vent this frustration here. I wouldn't read it as any more than that. As for your last statement, I wish some of my Brides felt that video was becoming less important. I'd might get an easier time. :) |
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Not meant to be smug - but as an outsider, I do detect a continual kind of attitude, which I do understand, but as I have a foot in many different camps, I can see it from the outside as a bit unbalanced.
The last thing a lighting person wants is static lighting. It's boring, dull and doesn't stimulate or change emotions - which is what it's all about. If you add the fact that so many moving lights now build in programmes to let them cycle through colours, for the people there, it's very pretty. In fact, this week, I've picked up the job of lighting a 'second' (wedding is abroad, so this is more like a party for people who can't go) wedding reception in 'mood lighting'. So I'm planning on lighting the white ceiling and bouncing colour all over the place. Lots of gobos, beams and LED strings all over the place. At the moment, there are photographs but no video planned. Steve - the lights are not being used badly, they are just being used in a non-flattering to video mode. This is the problem. If you are the BBC, doing Strictly, then you have two types of lighting, illumination - and effects, basically eye candy stuff with beams and colours, but you make sure you have face light. If you go into a nightclub, then you just have effects and no face light, and this is the type of lighting installation you get from many wedding venues, holiday centres and mobile DJs. Their entire system is not designed to do even whitish wash lighting, it creates strong colours, sharp beams and high contrast. If the video people want even lighting for important things, then they need to bring in suitable lighting, or do some proper planning. I also appreciate the bride may well think the video is perhaps even critical, but have no concept of what needs to be done to get proper pictures. Maybe in the initial discussions, these things just need clearing up? I've said it before, but I have lost track of the number of times a video guy turns up at the last minute and demands (not asks for) changes to the lighting - that we may well have spent days setting up! I offer the client the choice - light for the show and the 1400 people sitting there, or light for the video that they may sell a few of? I could have said we should light for the DVD, as it will be a permanent record of the brilliant show, and the static lighting wouldn't be noticed by most of the audience - and we can easily replot it while everyone is having lunch, if we work right through, and not add to the bill? You can guess which will be my preferred solution? |
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It's either the DJ that brings his installation or the Venue that has it preinstalled and they decide how it looks. Quote:
The past 2 years I don't bother anymore and just shoot like it is and now and then come to this forum to complain, it doesn't help but it makes me feel better there are others that feel the same. :) |
Re: I hate these new led lights!
In my experience lights are often dimmed to set the mood for first dance. Because I'm an old school non-dslr kinda guy I wouldn't show up to the reception without an on camera variable light even though dslr people look down on it. My view it's better to have options. Whether it's enough to over come whats being discussed here I don't know but it might be the difference from getting something rather than nothing. Those high end wedding trailers hide a lot of the ugly that an average wedding has. Its a fine line between letting anything happen and turning in sub par results to a client and getting involved in the event instead of covering it. I've always heard that reality tv is heavily scripted because if it wasn't it just wouldn't work.
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It's the same thing that I get with some lighting designers who just feature certain traits, and often the very one that gets them the job. One is heavily into magenta - and some DSLRs really can't do magenta - Pentax DSLRs are a good example on the newer ones, I take stills not video with Pentax - always have, and like them, until I bought a new one, and taking pictures of one designers work showed that they can do red, and they can do blue - but the mix that should produce magenta just gives a weird red.
The non-flattering thing is that lighting an entire dance floor in vivid red or blue can look really good - in a context. It depends on the room, and light location, but its not going to do faces much good. Luckily, few DJs like green, but if you ever find somebody who decides to a Wicked section - then a green LED wash will kill you. Black skin takes it very, very badly, and goes a kind of strange grey colour, that no tweaking in post will fix. Keep in mind that many club DJs now don't do lights, they have somebody dedicated to the mood creation element. All I'm attempting to do is explain a point of view that doesn't have much video in it - video needs are very different. Carrying your own kit means you have control. Finding a receptive DJ is luck, unless it's explained before - that is all. How many of you give the DJ a monitor so he can see what his lights look like to the camera? In theatre, this is the ONLY way we do it that guarantees what looks good to the eye makes it to the video. First dance lighting, to the DJ will look dreadful, same as his does to you? |
Re: I hate these new led lights!
The DJ is not hired at weddings to make sure his light set makes people look good, they just use it to create a mood and that might be on request of the couple (I have had a bride who wanted the entire venue in pink and yellow light) but mostly it's what the DJ prefers or what has been preinstalled in the venue.
They won't adapt their setup if you would bring a monitor to show how it will look on video, like I said, it's a wedding, not theather. I talk each time to couples prior to the wedding about the DJ lights and show them an example of how nice red/magenta can look but almost all of them don't hire a DJ for his lightset, they want a guy who can keep the dancefloor full. When they see my examples they always say to me they will mention it to the DJ not to use those lights during the first dance but when that time comes the DJ just does whatever he pleases. |
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