Decent Video Camera Recommendations?

George Kilroy · July 22nd, 2015, 04:04 AM

Steve, I was saying exactly that, that there is a market but like all markets it's not for everyone in the same way the well crafted work that professionals do is not for everyone, otherwise almost every wedding would have a professional.
If there is a service offered in the right way and costed correctly there will be people who'll go for it, the sort of people who'd never have gone for a professional anyway, so I don't see it taking work away or undermining professionals. In someways it may cause some people who were tempted by a DIY to go to a professional when they see the footage they could end up with.
These two approaches will both work alongside each other, neither is going to knock the other one out.

We should also not be too quick to dismiss the abilities of guests to shoot video just because they do not do it for a living, some of the DIY one's I've seen are quite good (in parts).

As an aside. I recently filmed a stage performance for a friend, she had been asked to sing at an outdoor concert. The concert wasn't being officially recorded and I was allowed by the organiser to shoot from a reasonably good position. I had gone along just as a member of the audience so only had a GH4 with me but took a close enough position to shoot wide hand-held. The result to my surprise was very steady and a run through Mercalli smoothed it nicely.

The point of this, and linking back to what I've said above. I sent two good clips to both the singer and the event organiser to use as they wished. When I looked on their facebook and websites there were a half a dozen videos of the same songs shot from various places around the outdoor venue that were to my mind terrible both picture and sound. It was outdoors at night with the performers lit by stage lighting, in all the other videos the performers were way over exposed, tiny figures in the distance with the extraneous chatter and traffic noise making the stage audio almost incidental. They added nothing to the clips I sent, other than giving a context to the setting of the concert, yet they both thought them worthy of putting online, presumable just because they exist and those who may think my work is static and lacks atmosphere will have the other ones to enjoy.

Steve Burkett · July 22nd, 2015, 05:54 AM

Like all of us, I have a favourite band I follow. Often I've seen clips online of their music performed live, shot on phones with crappy audio, over exposed, singers as stick insects. I accept it because tha's the only way to see it. However if I bought a bluray of one of their live shows, I'd be very disappointed if I had to watch something like that. What you tolerate in a 3-4 minute online video is quite different from what you'd tolerate from something broadcast. How many online videos have poor audio or bad lighting, without a single complaint; yet BBC programmes like Jamaica Inn and Wolf Hall received complaints regarding those very issues.

I'm not using it as an argument as to why you shouldn't offer this service. However it is a case for why you need to consider how you market it, how you edit the material and dealing with peoples narrow view that what separates them from the professionals is simply good equipment - the sort that look at your videos and say "oh you must have a good camera". Crap video watched on a phone or tablet or PC via the internet will be better accepted than something they watch on their 40" TV. It's managing their expectations that I think is the real work of this service.

Noa Put · July 22nd, 2015, 07:18 AM

Why not offer to edit honeymoon films, I get that question asked quite a lot, most couples have no experience or time to edit this.

James Bishop · July 22nd, 2015, 08:03 AM

Wow, pleased to have started a bit of a debate!

Definitely, it is about managing expectations, i agree. I will do a couple of videos for next to nothing, and have these videos prominent on the website when we launch so people can see what to expect. And i will make it clear, that to have any kind of half decent video relies on them having friend(s) who they think will a) put the effort in on the day and b) have some kind of track record (perhaps they've seen a video that they put on Facebook or something…).

Like I say, i'm not looking to create a big company. I'm going to charge less than than siy (at least to start with), so hopefully there will be a market out there for us! And I have one idea that will differentiate us from siy.

I did look at the cameras that they use - the MC50's. Does anyone know if there is a replacement for this model?

Or how about a couple of Canon G25's, with DM-100's as suggested?

Chris Harding · July 22nd, 2015, 06:39 PM

That's a good idea Noa ... Philip Howells who used to contribute a lot here used to offer that as part of his package. Give the couple a camcorder to take on honeymoon and then edit what they film. However I must admit I have never had anyone ask me about that service. Again the camera is the issue but at least it's going to the couple only and not a drunk best man! Venue would also be a lot nicer! A bunch of clips in Fiji will come out a lot better than footage in a dim wedding venue at night!

James Bishop · July 23rd, 2015, 04:31 AM

Yeh it's not something i've ever been asked about. I imagine it would mostly just be video of the couple lying on a beach/by a pool... Not sure it would be easy making an interesting film out of it! Though i guess some have slightly more adventurous honeymoons

Noa Put · July 23rd, 2015, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Not sure it would be easy making an interesting film out of it!

And you think when a camera comes back from a wedding that would be easy? :) I rather do holiday movies, the last couple I shot a wedding for asked me for advice for a small and easy camera and also asked if I could edit, they wanted something with a big zoom :) as they where planning to visit British Columbia and probably wanted to shoot wildlife. That should be pretty straightforward to edit and probably all shot in good light.

Chris Harding · July 23rd, 2015, 09:44 PM

Yeah Noa me too!

The couple are most likely going to choose nice weather and very scenic spots on their honeymoon so it would be a lot easier to edit than a camera that was shot in near dark at a wedding reception.

I can imagine what sort of footage one might expect from a DIY wedding camera ..not for the faint hearted

Kyle Root · September 3rd, 2015, 07:59 AM

While it's not 4K, it does have a much better form factor (user friendly) imo, compared to the AX100/CX900/X70.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1156385-REG/sony_hxr_nx100.html

Noa Put · September 3rd, 2015, 08:05 AM

Where did that model come from? Never heard of the nx100 and have to say it looks a very interesting camera at only 1700 dollar? Specification wise this camera ticks a lot of boxes.

Kyle Root · September 3rd, 2015, 08:16 AM

For me, it checks all the major boxes I personally need for my style of wedding work:

- Built in XLRs
- Easy access buttons
- Dual Cards - SD (aka affordable)
- Same Sony batteries I've been using for 5 years and have many of.
- 1" sensor, which for me, provides adequate shallow DOF look for subject isolation
- 3 rings for controls
- True run and gun style all in one form factor without a bunch of add ons needed.

I'd love to have:

- 4K, even as paid upgrade
- 4:2:2 color space, although I'm very pleased with 50mbps from the a7s, so should be good enough.

Steve Burkett · September 3rd, 2015, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle Root

While it's not 4K, it does have a much better form factor (user friendly) imo, compared to the AX100/CX900/X70.

Sony HXR-NX100 Full HD NXCAM Camcorder HXR-NX100 B&H Photo Video

Boo, no 4K. Otherwise be ideal for my needs.

Kyle Root · September 3rd, 2015, 09:02 AM

We shot with the new Sony a7rII this past weekend, and just the ceremony file from it was almost 30GB in 4K.

Now I'm questioning the usefulness of shooting 4K for weddings for my needs... hence why I believe the NX100 will be a very nice upgrade to my aging NX5.

Nigel Barker · September 3rd, 2015, 09:14 AM

I am amazed that Sony haven't produced a Pro version of the AX100. This NX100 looks to be the same 1" Exmoor R sensor & the same 12X zoom lens 29-348mm (full frame equivalent) F/2.8-F/4.5 as the AX100 but without 4K. The NX100 looks a great little camera at the price but I will wait for the inevitable 4K version to be released.

Peter Rush · September 3rd, 2015, 02:45 PM

Multi-interface shoe means you can't attach anything other than via official sony adapter that costs a fortune and is plastic crap that works it's way loose in a few minutes

I bought one for nearly £50 for my pj780 and it's junk

July 22nd, 2015, 04:04 AM	#31
George Kilroy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Midlands UK Posts: 699	Re: Decent Video Camera Recommendations? Steve, I was saying exactly that, that there is a market but like all markets it's not for everyone in the same way the well crafted work that professionals do is not for everyone, otherwise almost every wedding would have a professional. If there is a service offered in the right way and costed correctly there will be people who'll go for it, the sort of people who'd never have gone for a professional anyway, so I don't see it taking work away or undermining professionals. In someways it may cause some people who were tempted by a DIY to go to a professional when they see the footage they could end up with. These two approaches will both work alongside each other, neither is going to knock the other one out. We should also not be too quick to dismiss the abilities of guests to shoot video just because they do not do it for a living, some of the DIY one's I've seen are quite good (in parts). As an aside. I recently filmed a stage performance for a friend, she had been asked to sing at an outdoor concert. The concert wasn't being officially recorded and I was allowed by the organiser to shoot from a reasonably good position. I had gone along just as a member of the audience so only had a GH4 with me but took a close enough position to shoot wide hand-held. The result to my surprise was very steady and a run through Mercalli smoothed it nicely. The point of this, and linking back to what I've said above. I sent two good clips to both the singer and the event organiser to use as they wished. When I looked on their facebook and websites there were a half a dozen videos of the same songs shot from various places around the outdoor venue that were to my mind terrible both picture and sound. It was outdoors at night with the performers lit by stage lighting, in all the other videos the performers were way over exposed, tiny figures in the distance with the extraneous chatter and traffic noise making the stage audio almost incidental. They added nothing to the clips I sent, other than giving a context to the setting of the concert, yet they both thought them worthy of putting online, presumable just because they exist and those who may think my work is static and lacks atmosphere will have the other ones to enjoy.

July 22nd, 2015, 05:54 AM	#32
Steve Burkett Trustee Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Romsey, UK Posts: 1,261	Re: Decent Video Camera Recommendations? Like all of us, I have a favourite band I follow. Often I've seen clips online of their music performed live, shot on phones with crappy audio, over exposed, singers as stick insects. I accept it because tha's the only way to see it. However if I bought a bluray of one of their live shows, I'd be very disappointed if I had to watch something like that. What you tolerate in a 3-4 minute online video is quite different from what you'd tolerate from something broadcast. How many online videos have poor audio or bad lighting, without a single complaint; yet BBC programmes like Jamaica Inn and Wolf Hall received complaints regarding those very issues. I'm not using it as an argument as to why you shouldn't offer this service. However it is a case for why you need to consider how you market it, how you edit the material and dealing with peoples narrow view that what separates them from the professionals is simply good equipment - the sort that look at your videos and say "oh you must have a good camera". Crap video watched on a phone or tablet or PC via the internet will be better accepted than something they watch on their 40" TV. It's managing their expectations that I think is the real work of this service.

July 22nd, 2015, 07:18 AM	#33
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: Decent Video Camera Recommendations? Why not offer to edit honeymoon films, I get that question asked quite a lot, most couples have no experience or time to edit this.

July 22nd, 2015, 08:03 AM	#34
James Bishop Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: London UK Posts: 88	Re: Decent Video Camera Recommendations? Wow, pleased to have started a bit of a debate! Definitely, it is about managing expectations, i agree. I will do a couple of videos for next to nothing, and have these videos prominent on the website when we launch so people can see what to expect. And i will make it clear, that to have any kind of half decent video relies on them having friend(s) who they think will a) put the effort in on the day and b) have some kind of track record (perhaps they've seen a video that they put on Facebook or something…). Like I say, i'm not looking to create a big company. I'm going to charge less than than siy (at least to start with), so hopefully there will be a market out there for us! And I have one idea that will differentiate us from siy. I did look at the cameras that they use - the MC50's. Does anyone know if there is a replacement for this model? Or how about a couple of Canon G25's, with DM-100's as suggested?

July 22nd, 2015, 06:39 PM	#35
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Decent Video Camera Recommendations? That's a good idea Noa ... Philip Howells who used to contribute a lot here used to offer that as part of his package. Give the couple a camcorder to take on honeymoon and then edit what they film. However I must admit I have never had anyone ask me about that service. Again the camera is the issue but at least it's going to the couple only and not a drunk best man! Venue would also be a lot nicer! A bunch of clips in Fiji will come out a lot better than footage in a dim wedding venue at night!

July 23rd, 2015, 04:31 AM	#36
James Bishop Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: London UK Posts: 88	Re: Decent Video Camera Recommendations? Yeh it's not something i've ever been asked about. I imagine it would mostly just be video of the couple lying on a beach/by a pool... Not sure it would be easy making an interesting film out of it! Though i guess some have slightly more adventurous honeymoons

July 23rd, 2015, 09:44 PM	#38
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Decent Video Camera Recommendations? Yeah Noa me too! The couple are most likely going to choose nice weather and very scenic spots on their honeymoon so it would be a lot easier to edit than a camera that was shot in near dark at a wedding reception. I can imagine what sort of footage one might expect from a DIY wedding camera ..not for the faint hearted

September 3rd, 2015, 07:59 AM	#39
Kyle Root Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Decatur, AL Posts: 881	The Sony NX100 is $1,699 While it's not 4K, it does have a much better form factor (user friendly) imo, compared to the AX100/CX900/X70. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1156385-REG/sony_hxr_nx100.html __________________ Kyle KR Productions; www.kyleroot.com

September 3rd, 2015, 08:05 AM	#40
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: Decent Video Camera Recommendations? Where did that model come from? Never heard of the nx100 and have to say it looks a very interesting camera at only 1700 dollar? Specification wise this camera ticks a lot of boxes.

September 3rd, 2015, 08:16 AM	#41
Kyle Root Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Decatur, AL Posts: 881	Re: Decent Video Camera Recommendations? For me, it checks all the major boxes I personally need for my style of wedding work: - Built in XLRs - Easy access buttons - Dual Cards - SD (aka affordable) - Same Sony batteries I've been using for 5 years and have many of. - 1" sensor, which for me, provides adequate shallow DOF look for subject isolation - 3 rings for controls - True run and gun style all in one form factor without a bunch of add ons needed. I'd love to have: - 4K, even as paid upgrade - 4:2:2 color space, although I'm very pleased with 50mbps from the a7s, so should be good enough. __________________ Kyle KR Productions; www.kyleroot.com Last edited by Kyle Root; September 3rd, 2015 at 08:16 AM. Reason: modify

September 3rd, 2015, 09:02 AM	#43
Kyle Root Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Decatur, AL Posts: 881	Re: Decent Video Camera Recommendations? We shot with the new Sony a7rII this past weekend, and just the ceremony file from it was almost 30GB in 4K. Now I'm questioning the usefulness of shooting 4K for weddings for my needs... hence why I believe the NX100 will be a very nice upgrade to my aging NX5. __________________ Kyle KR Productions; www.kyleroot.com

September 3rd, 2015, 09:14 AM	#44
Nigel Barker Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Posts: 3,531	Re: Decent Video Camera Recommendations? I am amazed that Sony haven't produced a Pro version of the AX100. This NX100 looks to be the same 1" Exmoor R sensor & the same 12X zoom lens 29-348mm (full frame equivalent) F/2.8-F/4.5 as the AX100 but without 4K. The NX100 looks a great little camera at the price but I will wait for the inevitable 4K version to be released.

September 3rd, 2015, 02:45 PM	#45
Peter Rush Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: UK/Yorkshire Posts: 2,069	Re: Decent Video Camera Recommendations? Multi-interface shoe means you can't attach anything other than via official sony adapter that costs a fortune and is plastic crap that works it's way loose in a few minutes I bought one for nearly £50 for my pj780 and it's junk