Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place?
 

Just checking where others are posting sneak peeks and trailers.I had been posting on Vimeo for few years without issue but they now block any copyrighted songs from being used. If I understand correctly, I can now post on Youtube but may end up with an ad at the beginning?

I fully understand the debate and issue about using copyrighted music. Its just that most brides want their song and find it hard to accept when they see thousands of others.

Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place?
 

I use YouTube mainly. Most couples are aware of the ads and there's more options for playback resolution. Vimeo is lagging behind. For some videos where quality needs to shine, I'll use them, but for a paid service, they need to up their game.

Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place?
 

Hi Darryn

I have been using You Tube for years now and if they detect you are using a commercial song they will flag it. If they have an "agreement" with the publisher they will place a revenue producing ad at the bottom of the video but occasionally I have had a few where the video is not visible in some countries ? So far it has only been Germany!!

There is one hitch with YouTube videos with commercial music and that is even if they place the ad on your clip (doesn't seem to phase my brides) the clip is unavailable on mobile devices like phones and tablets .. I have no idea why but they are blocked .. I changed the music in one clip (sheesh it was only the bridal march but supposedly it violated copyright) and the clip after that was available on mobile devices. I guess they are doing that as people viewing on computers are more likely to click on an ad than people using phones.

Other than that they work fine as long as you tell the bride not to try and watch on her phone!!

There was talk that Vimeo was considering banning accounts that had more than 3 violations (3 strikes and your account is deleted) but I'm unsure if they went thru with that or not?

Vimeo does look a little better but seriously I don't think brides look at resolution ..just the content !! You Tube where my brides are also seems to load a lot better as long as you don't try to upload your video in UHD at 100mbps !!!

Chris

Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place?
 

If you want to get noticed then youtube is an alternative you can't ignore, that Vimeo blocks your videos for using copyrighted content I"d say that's normal, you should pay for the music you use in your trailers you are using online to showcase your work, not sure if you would find it ok if someone would use images from your video without your approval and without paying for it?

Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place?
 

Kind of makes doing Marryokes difficult Noa. I'm hardly alone in that either. For my Trailers I tend to use copyright free music.

Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place?
 

If you use it online to promote your business with it you have to pay for the music you use, if you don't then you probably won't mind if I rip your videos and put my name under it without paying you for it, if your work would be better then mine that is :)

Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place?
 

Sanctimonious issues aside Noa; I'm not claiming to have written or performed the song, passing their work off as my own, so your analogy is off the mark. A better example would be if a venue used my video to promote their business, which as it happens they have done so, both with and without my consent. Did I object when I found such a case without my consent; nope. I've also had a video I shot ripped from Youtube, segments cut from it and then re-uploaded under another account. They did at least link to the original; again, no permission asked. Did I mind, nope.

Marryokes don't exists in the dark corners of the Internet; I'm currently working on one to P Williams Happy song. To think he or someone close to him isn't aware of how this song has been used sooooo many times for Marryokes is unlikely. So why isn't it stopped. Money drives these issues Noa. I have no issue with anyone using my video unless I saw them making more money from it than me; same goes for most artists I think. There's nothing worse than obscurity in creative work and anyone feeling my video is worthwhile to use feels a little flattering to my ego.

I appreciate copyright issues is a thorny one, but those songs most likely used for Marryokes have already made the singer more money than I ever will. Vimeo enforces copyright more strictly than Youtube only because Youtube being a free to use service can get away with putting adverts and therefore make money from it, whilst Vimeo, being for the most who use it a paid service, can not. These games are played at higher levels than me. If Youtube is making money from my videos, done to popular songs, why not me.

Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place?
 

Agree with this 100%

I pay for licenses for all the music I use and I post to both youtube and vimeo. In my experience, if you don't search "vimeo" then my youtube videos will show up in a google search over my vimeo videos, which is one of the only reasons I use youtube. The more people I get my videos in front of the better and vimeo and youtube have vastly different audiences.

Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place?
 

You are not passing it of as your work, that's right, you are just using it for your own financial gain without having to pay the author of the music for his work. So me using your work to promote mine is the same and I don't need to ask you or pay you anything for it.

Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place?
 

Well since my Marryoke's credit and even link to the song I use, details of who made it, sung it etc, then should you use my video to promote yours, by the same token you need to link to my website or at least my youtube site. So urgo you're promoting my work as well as your own. In that case, feel free. I like my videos to be seen and if you help me reach more people, I'd even thank you for it. And don't bother me with pesky requests to use my videos, I get enough emails as it is. :)

Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place?
 

Both Vimeo and YouTube scan for copyright violations now. Both will ban you if they have to, though I've only heard of a few cases. A bigger issue for us with violation is that, if your video gets noticed, you'll get a six figure bill from the record company (just Google Joe Simon's article on copyright chickens have come home to roost).

In more practical issues, using pop songs means ads at the least. Or that at any time, the company can pull permission and suddenly your client's video won't have audio.

On the ethical side, yes, its using someone else's work for your own benefit, without their permission, and without compensation. If you wouldn't think that's OK for someone to do with your work, then don't do it to someone else.

----

To answer the OP's question, YouTube does better in search engines. Vimeo is ad free and tends to be prettier.

Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place?
 

Use both and pay for your music. Simple! :)

Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place?
 

Providing a "credit and even link to the song I use" means nothing if you don't have the rights to use it. It may be justification in your mind but it is not in any way in compliance with the law. Although I am not a wedding videographer and don't use main stream music I do either pay for a license, get written permission or use a creative commons license if allowed by the composer/performer. I document the license in the video description.

Here is a personal example of how Youtube and Vimeo deal with copyright violations. A while back a fellow used some of my footage without permission. My footage was in about 20 videos of his 400+ video library on Youtube and Vimeo. They were popular and monetized. I went thru the notification of copyright infringement process on both sites and provided proof of ownership. Although it took a week or so he had enough copyright complaints (it only takes three) that they deleted all his videos and closed his account. He eventually contacted me via email and asked to rescind my complaints and he would pay me for a license to use my video. His offer was peanuts so I refused. Also, I did not want to do business with a person of dubious character. His bad choices caused him to loose 100's of hours editing and uploading as well as all his self-promotion. I believed he learned a valuable and costly lesson on the consequences of stealing someone's work.

Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place?
 

That's the point, you are ok with that but the people you are stealing from not, you have build a business on using music without permission, I wonder why you even bother buying a license for your weddingtrailers.

Personally I do blame the music industry for making it so difficult for people to use music, if I would add a Marryoke to my business, I would gladly want to pay a license for the songs I use but it has to be within reasonable limits, there is no use in charging 10K+ for a used song when your target audience pays less the 1K for a video. There are millions to be made by charging an appropriate amount depending on the kind of business that wants to use it and what way they want to share it but because the fees are ridiculously high people will just start to use it for free and take their chances, I have heard about musicians don't want to be associated with certain types of production but as long as it doesn't concern videos that are not offensive to the general public they are missing out on millions by not charging an amount every business can pay.

I mean even my daughter's rabbit video with a popular song on youtube got the song take out because of a copyright violation, she was not monetizing her videos and youtube could easily check that so she wasn't making any money from it so what was the big deal here, that the author of the song doesn't want to be associated with rabbits? If they would be smart they would ask 1 dollar for the use of their song in such a case and make a lot of extra money but since they are not ok with they don't make anything and still thousands of people are placing their song under a rabbit video and slip under the radar of whatever robot is checking for violations.

Sabam, our Belgian Society of Authors, Composers and Publishers who collect, distribute and manage (in the broadest sense of the word) all copyrights in Belgium and all other countries is very clear about using commercial songs publicly online with the intent of promoting your business to a wide audience will send you a appropriate invoice when they are notified about you using a song without permission. Where I live several videographers take the risk and just use it like Steve does but they are not aware about the fact that a simple email to Sabam from a jealous competitor can cause their business to shut down because they can't pay the price for the licenses. That would be a risk I never want to take.

Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place?
 

Noa I'm not disagreeing with any of your points here. I'm curious how a company like Marryoke.com survives. They charge way way more, have views in the 10,000's compared to my 300-600 views per video. Are they asking permission, paying a fee. Their website says they've been featured in the Daily Mail, Channel 4 amongst others. Hardly low profile. Youtube's policy seems to be, either the artist can block the video, mute the audio or allow an advert with revenue going to them. How true is this, I do not know. However it seems to be a solution that Youtube is happy with, the Businesses that pay for the adverts and even the artist to some degree or else they'd block it or insist audio be removed. By running adverts against my video, the businesses they refer to are also in a roundabout way using my video with copyright music to promote their business. It's a real grey area and arguably if illegal then Youtube is hardly an innocent bystander.

At the end of the day it is up to artists to fight their battles and I dare say if any objected strongly I would soon hear about it. If any would be competitor did squeal, would there be any comeback. I could label quite a few other higher profile Marryoke companies, but don't. At the end of the day, people want Marryokes and there will always be those like me available to supply them. It's not a perfect scenario, but then what is.

I'm sure there'll be those taking the high ground and condemn me to ever lasting hell. I use copyright free music for my trailers for good reason. With Marryoke's alas it's unavoidable. Unless any here can advise on how this is achievable short of withdrawing the service.

Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place?
 

A salutary warning against using music without permission on The Internet. I bet Joe Simon doesn't do it anymore

The Music Licensing Chickens Have Come Home to Roost in Wedding and Event Videography | Dare Dreamer Magazine

Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place?
 

Not really a grey area. YouTube works WITH the copyright holders. IF you use a pop song in your video, and they allow it to stay online, its because the copyright holder made that choice. If they put ads on it, that revenue is going back to the holder (and YouTube gets their cut). If the copyright holder changes their mind, the audio can vanish. OR, if they notice your video is promoting YOUR business, you can still get a bill for copyright infringement (like Joe Simon did). Just because they let you upload the video in the first place doesn't mean they're giving their permission for HOW you're using it. If you check the terms and conditions of Vimeo and YouTube uploads, you'll see that.

I hope you mean ROYALTY free music. Copyright free music is different than the royalty free music we pay the license for once and use freely in our promotional videos.

As for unavoidable, that's baloney and we all know it. We each make a choice. For instance, I make my clients a wedding video that includes all the original music of the day... but it stays offline and is only for their personal use. If you want to make them marry-oke, you are the one choosing to, and choosing to put it online. No one is forcing you to. The nonsense about taking credit or not for the song has nothing to do with it. We're not talking about fair use. "I want my work to be seen" is literally commercial use.

Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place?
 

Robert, like many you have strong opinions in the subject and I respect that. Music for Trailers has been purchased from sites that allow certain uses, including for Wedding businesses such as mine. Usually for 1 use or 5 use license.

As for Marryokes, it is expected from the fact that it is a Marryoke that A It uses a popular song, B, it goes online to be shared. A tradition set by those who started the Marryoke craze. To offer it is to follow that tradition or not offer it all. Hence my no choice statement. I can't run Marryokes without making them available online as the whole point is for the couple to share with guests. It's not a personal video. I could withdraw the service, but apart from that, posting online is just how Marryokes are done.

Now I'm sure you disagree with this reasoning, but its not going to change and there are those making much much more money from Marryokes than I. Feel free to contact Marryoke.Com, they're famous across the World and received publicity from their Marryokes. I'm sure they'd be delighted with your opinions.

Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place?
 

They might be contacted one day, just as they did with Joe Simon, he was also world famous when he used commercial music without paying for it until he got noticed by the wrong person. Just because one company can get away with it doesn't mean it is ok.

Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place?
 

A lesson in the obvious is of course very much welcome; still a welcome reminder that there are others more deserving of legal action. Of course, I could just forward the video for the couple to upload. So therefore not on my youtube site and on the couple's instead. Since most clients discover my Marryokes through either my sample DVD or via recommendation, not having my name to an online video would not affect my Business one jot. Being a video on a personal rather than business account, this would come under the ad system Youtube provides. Of course this doesn't resolve the ethical dilemma, but would limit my risks being sued.

Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place?
 

Hey Steve

So your Marryoke clips are not put online any more? They would lose the whole effect without the song of course!! It's a pity as those are good to show brides what they will get !!

I supply brides with a shortened online video of their ceremony and that's normally just the vows and rings so there is no music and therefore no copyright issues.

For the odd sample highlight video I tend to gravitate towards Smartsound tracks which are Royalty free but what amuses me is that You Tube still thinks they are copyright music so I have to end up sending detailed emails on the track details and where it comes from before they remove the flag!!

We do have a blanket licence over here for using commercial music on the DVD ...that is of course JUST the DVD and you are not licenced online. In fact the licence states you can use it for up to 20 DVD's for private viewing only but they will now not elaborate whether USB delivery is also covered as it's not mentioned. Many locals here have tried to get clarification on what media can be used with no success so at this stage even a BluRay might not be covered???

Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place?
 

Hi Chris,

No still online. With larger companies than me working that way, I feel mine is hopefully too small to be noticed. It's usually viral videos that grab attention. Still its worth monitoring, which I do, as it is a risk. Unlike Trailers, not all my couples have a Marryoke, only a handful.

Obviously there is an ethical and legal issue to my use of popular music. However the fact is anyone using popular music either as tracks or as recorded live as part of their video is using another artists work as part of their business. Unless you actually remove all music and replace with royalty free. If such music appears on Sample DVDs that you send to potential clients, then you're using other artists work to promote your business, not on the internet mind. Still to show a potential client some 1st Dance coverage done to say a live recording of Thinking Out Loud, is still using someone else's work to help promote your business.

Of course the internet brings this more out into the open, by reaching out to a wider audience. For DVD use, like you, in Britain there's a license to cover that. I'm sure those like me who pay it can pat themselves on the back and feel they paid their due, but is the artist benefitting or even agreeing to use of their music. I had an organist who objected to my filming of the Ceremony despite this license as a piece he played was one of his own creation. So he said. Obviously this license allows use of an x amount of music, but doesn't ask you to name the tracks. So the original artist neither knows about it nor even gets a penny from it.

Whilst the internet is frowned on and for good reason, it does at least give the artist a choice and some revenue from the use of their music. If the artist disagrees with my use as part of my business, would that also extend to DVD use in the final video as well, despite the license that I and others pay.

In the end, ethically and risk free, to run my business I should use only royalty free music in my video, and even replace all live music with the same. If anyone here is doing this and not a single piece of popular music appears in their videos, then I'm sure they have every right to throw stones at me. However when it comes down to it, many are guilty of ripping off artists work. Even my goodey two shoes Parents have copied an artists music CD and given to a friend.

Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place?
 

Oops, you're getting your terms mixed up there, Chris. Smartsound tracks are still copyrighted. They're royalty free, which is different. Here, you pay a simple one time fee, then get to use them royalty free. That's why they still get flagged each time by YouTube.

I know TheMusicBed.com has a video tag that I can include in my videos so that Vimeo and YouTube know I paid the fee for their use. I've never had a problem getting flagged.

Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place?
 

Hi Rob

According to the company they should be able to be used on YouTube as I have purchased the Audio Pallets from them ..yes you can also download just one song but I decided to buy a whole bunch of libraries from them on special instead of doing a download of just one track. It's only now and again that they are flagged by You Tube ..mostly the robot doesn't make the error ...some of the tracks are VERY close to commercial melody lines so if it gets tagged it's understandable. Most of their music is done by the Music Bakery.

Thanks for the heads up!

Chris