Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

Hi Guys

With the massive influx of cheap cameras and hundreds of weekend warriors intent on doing $199.00 wedding packages including the iPhone. iPad and action cam availability now, do you think that it's getting harder to try and compete with all these negative factors when trying to offer a traditional wedding video.

A niche market that bypasses the conventional wedding coverage and is beyond the scope of the weekend warrior I feel could create a new and lucrative opportunity for us wedding professionals still trying to work for a living and not beer money.

Has anyone thought of offering different scenarios that brides would go for that are unique, entertaining and not something that the part timer would attempt or even think of?? Things like shooting a Marryoke style session with the bridal party, pre or post wedding interviews or similar that one could be creative and then leave the boring traditional coverage to the monkey's that want to work for peanuts

Is the time approaching when we have to start thinking about moving away from the conventional as phones and cheap cameras start to do it as well as we can???

This guy in Miami is quite inspirational in his approach and it moves away from the traditional and boring wedding video format nicely.

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

I see the competition offering extra's to get noticed like: drone footage, chatbox (unmanned videocamerabox), interviews at reception, marryoke, same day edit, save the date etc while I am planning to go the total opposite direction towards boring traditional coverage again :)

Less is more and if you focus on the details and emotion that's all the general bride really cares about, I don't know if you have seen fiore films, just look her up by name, from what I have seen she doesn't use a slider, steadicam or any other tool, just 5diii's with fast primes to get a heavy stylized dreamy look, great compositions, good audio, nice color, spot on focus and exposure and an eye for detail. Everything looks like it has been shot on tripod, all very stable with very little to no movement except to create transitions that are further enhanced in post.

It's like dining in a 3 star restaurant, they don't have 75 menus on the card like some bistro's have and what they serve has been cut back to the essentials but selected and prepared with care and passion. You could also say that everyone can buy the same food these days and everyone has access to a kitchen but that doesn't make everyone a 3 star chef.

I don't worry about weekend worriers selling at a low price, their audience will never choose me anyway, they just want to have it cheap, I also don't worry about Iphone 6 users shooting 4K while I mainly shoot and deliver in HD, they never will have the same point of view I will have.

I decided, mainly because of my bad back, to go back to the basics, to say it in Alejandro Calore's words: one man, one camera, one point of view :) meaning I want to go back to just one camera, a absolute minimum amount of gear and focus on detail and emotion. Any bride that wants to have a drone fly over their venue or wants to sing a marryoke song on their wedding can choose out of these many others bistro restaurants, I will just go ahead and try to get my first Michelin star. :D

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

I'm with you Noa, Though I have done family interviews, I've never built it into their main wedding video. I've done it as a separate family memento. Getting grandma talking about how she and grandpa met, for instance. This example video appears to be doing something similar to what some DJ's call 'the love story.' It was kind of a thing with high end U.S. DJs around 2005-2010.

I like my drone, my slider, or even doing a landscape timelapse, but I certainly don't consider them essential. If I use them, for me, they're generally good for 1-4 shots. But I can get great energy by going handheld, too, as I shoot through out the day, and more spontaneous, casual smiles/laughs/affection. And, for the drone, most of the locations I work aren't exactly photogenic.

What I really want to work on is my little unnoticed, but still affecting elements, like transitions. Lately I've been watching these videos, trying to absorb it and apply it to weddings. Transitions, filming groups, Spielberg one'ers, etc.

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

Okay as one who does fit into Noa's Bistro service analogy, I think extras do have their place and aren't just marketing tools. On the contrary they add variety to Wedding filming. I personally find Marryoke's to be enjoyable and fun to do and a welcome change to some of the stuffy Weddings I've filmed.
As for Fiore films, their Wedding videos are clearly more arthouse in style and benefit from 2 people filming. Its a style not to everyones taste and not sustainable over a much longer edit that many clients prefer.
I can understand Noa's reasons for scaling back, but refute the idea that those who don't are not favouring emotion and detail in their filming. What drives the emotion in the fiore films videos I saw were the voice overs; the rest were just photo sessions in motion, nicely colour graded. They were definitely well filmed I agree.

Like Noa, I'm not sure we need be too concerned with weekend warriors. Its hardly a recent phase. I was effectively one 10 years ago, albeit for 1 Wedding only. Since establishing my Business, I've seen many weekend warriors come and go. They don't stay long. There's greater threat I feel from Photographers running a joint Video service. Especially as their profession is more threatened by weekend warriors than ours.

Its important to be competitive, but that can be less down to extras and more to quality of videos and excellent marketing. Extras for me are a chance to get more money from my clients, but they are not why I'm booked. Its usually down to recommendations and my style of filming that gets couples attention.

Incidentally I had a booking for the 2nd January this year after the previous Videographer pulled out. A weekend warrior charging a small fee, but so small, it was easy to walk away from. Hopefully there are enough couples out there who are aware of the risks of going too cheap.

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

I hope no-one gets offended by what I said, I too have been a part of a "bistro" group the past years trying new things, offering save the date, thinking about doing same day edit, dreaming about maybe one day do a marryoke because it looks so cool, doing interviews and offering a chatbox. Then adding steadicam, slider, and who knows what until my bad back forced me to rethink my strategy and having to take a step back.

Sometimes it's good to look at your way of working from a distance and if it's really necessary to do and buy all those things to make a quality wedding film and to get noticed.

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

Certainly not offended. The question is am I buying these things to compete, or to justify my position as a Wedding Videographer, or maybe just buying simply to define my style of shooting. We all have our own style in our videos - both filming and editing and its that which we sell to couples. Fiore films may not need sliders, drones and stabilisers, but they certainly need good primes, the 5D Mark III, quality tripods and software to help create their style of Wedding video. Would they achieve their look with a GH4 and 12-35 lens, or even say a Sony camcorder? Others will use sliders, drones and stabilisers in the same way - to create the look they're after.

You certainly don't need all of the above to make a good Wedding video, but if you want to stand out in a competing market, there has to be something about your videos to merit interest, even if its good editing and an eye for detail. Production value raises us above the amateur, but that value comes in many forms.

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

Realistically, I don't think you can give too much for $199?! Or even a little more. Factor in 20 minutes prep before & after Ceremony it's close to 2 hours just to shoot that. Most don't immediately segue into cocktail hour, and bridal prep is typically at a different location (Brides house, Salon etc).

Sure there may be a unique, ecclectic wedding where it works, bridal prep & reception at same location, very short overall wedding & shorter time I'm there (3 hours) and the couple just wants a quick, quirky highlight video, sure myb I'd accept it.

However for $200 figure that you'll be opening yourself up for changes, re-edits, "can we also have the speeches, 1st dances, parent dances etc in full". Suddenly it stretches into a much bigger project, one in which you're not turning much of a profit at all. I'd accept on a rare case by case basis, and if I got a really good vibe from the customer and they seemed to grasp the 'What I give them is what they get' concept.

Otherwise, people shooting $199 weddings can continue on with them imho. I can't imagine they won't tire of it quickly.

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

I think that once you start fearing wedding guests Iphones and weekend warriors that often means your own work is not good or special enough to separate yourself. I also mentioned Alejandro Calore who also produces weddingfilms that are not for everyone, yet he, just like Fiore films have managed to create something unique by not following what anyone else is doing and I believe that is one way of getting noticed.

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

Nobody other than a Weekend Warrior earning some extra that isn't declared to the taxman could possibly offer a wedding video for For $199/£199/€199. You couldn't make a living at that price.

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

Noa, it is interesting to hear that you are going back to basics, Ii have been saying ever since I joined this forum that one man with one camera can make a great wedding video if they have imagination, good technique and understand intimately what their camera can do. Apart from ceremony and speeches, I only use one camera for everything else and only use a second camera for a different fixed angle.

I attended what I consider is always our best wedding show last Sunday and Claire and I were at times overwhelmed with visitors to the stand. There were 650 brides registered as having attended the show and we talked virtually non stop all day. One thing that stood out above all else was that when visitors realised that we produce documentary coverage of their day, there was much more interest from them. There seem to be an increasingly greater number of companies offering lots of gimmicks, but few offering straight forward coverage. In the 2 days since the show, we have had 3 wedding bookings confirmed from it, 5 appointments to view and 2 more bookings confirmed at the show by people who had viewed previously.

Thats a pretty good return already for the 180 GBP it cost and of further interest is that all but one of those bookings and appointments are for our joint video/photography package.

Roger

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

It's not that I want to, I have to, it's either that or to stop completely as I originally planned a year back due to continuous backproblems. Against the odds I managed to survive a very busy wedding season last year but it has not been a joyride, dragging all my gear with me, running around like an idiot to set up all my camera's and audio gear in time, making sure I got all my eye candy shots with particularly my steadicam has taken it's toll. So this year only a handful of weddings and I want to make it a lot easier on myself. I have a wedding in 2 weeks time where I"m going to try out my new way of working for the first time and see how that works out.

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

With your experience Noa, you will be able to work light, fast and mobile, knowing what to expect in a way that amateurs wouldn't. Your shots will be stable and professionalwith absolutely no reason why the finished product wouldn't be very successful. Much more than would be achieved by weekend warriors with little or no experience.

Roger

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

Did it not occur that other Videographers at this Wedding fayre saw your 3D and Photography options as gimmicks too. In fact your business model I'd say is exactly as Chris suggested, adding extras to video coverage to help stand out from the competition.

There is it seems some romantic notion in going back to basics; ignoring the fact that the basic approach is arguably what contributed towards giving Wedding Videos a bad name, what is really being talked about is working with less tools. So I forget my slider at a Wedding and my gimbal goes tits up; do I say, no matter I shall take this chance to focus on emotion and detail. No, I film just as I did the Wedding before, focusing on emotion and detail, just without the use of a slider or a gimbal. So more shots on a tripod and monopod - perhaps less motion but the content is the same.

If I do film with 1 camera and I have done so for Marryoke only options as a Bonus video, the video becomes less a documentary edit and more shortform in structure. Sustaining single camera for longform requires more than imagination and technique. I'll concede an engaging video can be made that will please some couples, but I have secured enough bookings down to my multi camera setup to realise that this is one thing couples do pick up on and notice.

I am sure Noa will do very well with single camera and with his experience, arguably the greatest asset to any Videographer, will deliver videos that will knock spots off weekend warriors armed with multi cameras and the latest tools. However the loss of extra cameras will still be keenly felt. You can dress up limitations in all manner of ways, but when someone walks in front of your camera at a key moment, that extra camera will be surely missed.

Multi camera coverage is a skill like any other; some Videographers apply it better than others. When used to its fullest potential, it will deliver results far in excess of 1 camera coverage, no matter who the operator is.

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

Where I live there are also plenty weekend warriors but they don't charge low, they ask the same as the established videoshooters, the biggest difference between their and my website is they try to sell by lots of talk about their gear and what they do different compared to the "other" videographer and they call themselves cinematographers while I mainly put the focus on my work. I only have to take one look at their trailers to see they talk the talk but don't walk the walk :)

They usually also sell about any anything related to weddings like drone footage, chatbox, same day edit etc and they often are with 2 which I see more as a "2 friends sit at a bar and say, lets shoot weddings together" kind of relationship where one of the 2 never saw a camera but only sees it as extra beer money, there is just no passion for the work and you see that inexperience back in their trailers.

I"m not sure but I think it was Chris (correct me pls if I"m wrong!) who was not so into creating trailers as he saw it more as a way to show off but I firmly believe they are the ONLY thing that can separate the inexperienced 'I"m only in it for the beermoney" weekend warrior from the passionate "I need to make a living from it" professional. When new clients who have not heard of you before browse the internet and end up on your website, they will judge you on what they see there, if your work looks no different then the weekend warriors, you are basically scr*wed because they will just pick the cheapest or the one that can sell themselves better using expensive words.

I have had trailers that took me at least 2 full days to make until I felt it was right, like that American wedding (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/wedding-...ing-ghent.html) while some might find that a waste of time it's clips like this that can separate me from my competition and particular, weekend warriors.

I now am venturing into a new direction and am as exited as I"m nervous, I'm ditching my main attraction, my steadicam and all my extra camera's, and that is forcing me to rethink how I shoot and I only see limitations to overcome, so that will be fun to see how I am going to cope with that. :)

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

Yes Noa ..I think that was me ...however I always do a high light rather than a trailer the only difference being that the length is around 7 minutes compared to a trailer being under 2 minutes ..I figured that my high light does a similar job to a trailer ...people probably bail on either format after watching a minute anyway as they have formed an opinion already by then and will either move on or go to your website.

How would you handle ceremonies on a single camera ... I think I would find filming the bridal entry and then having to switch to the actual ceremony might be tricky?? Would that be tripod based or handheld??

Steve could be quite right Roger? Did you in fact have your 3D setup out on display? Surely that would be a drawcard whether or not people actually booked it. I know I would be curious !!

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

Hi Chris,

I haven't promoted 3d at wedding shows for about 3 years now, apart from it being mentioned very briefly in my leaflets. I don't promote any gimmicks on the stand, as I believe our biggest strength is drawing people in and talking about it, we are both pretty good at that.

Public interest in 3d is pretty much dead, but I have a couple of ideas afoot to promote my 3d skills, but with photography rather than video, although using the 4k video cababilty of the FZ1000s. It will take a while to implement, but if I can achieve the product I want at the right price, it will be quite dramatic at a wedding show.

Roger

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

Hey Roger

Fair enough so it's all about your charisma and because you are friendly and approachable ..I see so many who spout their mouth off about how good their cameras are and all their accessories they have and really, the bride couldn't care less!! I did a dual interview years ago with a photographer who spent most of his interview with the bride showing off his camera! He didn't get the job either!!

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

Hmmm - if the competition is really so bad as some you more experienced guys claim, perhaps Chris' original statement at the start of this thread is easily answered and we have nothing to fear from weekend warriors. Or do we? Its easy to knock competition, easy to focus on one or two things they get wrong and assume the rest. We only really know the needs of our customers, but they are our customers for a reason and of course their needs are going to be in line with what we offer, or else why come to us in the first place.

Traditional coverage is all well and good, but I've spoken to many who see such videos as boring and nothing more than shelf filler. Thanks to the internet, couples are seeing much more scope for what Wedding videos can be. Offering joint Photography and Videography is a gimmick; its one that will help your business stand out from the rest in much the same way I offer Marryokes, same day edit and other features. Sure you can limit yourself to a single service, focus on a niche market who want traditional coverage, but if your Business is still new then how you progress will depend on your marketing and quality of work. Just being good at your craft won't be enough.

More and more people are being introduced to a Wedding video via the short 4-7 minute highlight and I'm seeing a shift in people's expectations as a result, especially last year; questions I'm being asked about different styles, are my videos cinematic being a popular question.

Surely it's not just a question of reacting to competition from weekend warriors, but also reacting to your bigger competitors reaction to weekend warriors. If another fulltime Wedding Video company local to you offers xxxx services to stand out from weekend warriors, do you feel the need to do the same just to compete.

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

I think there are mainly 3 type of clients, one just wants "a" video and takes whoever is recommended by their photographer, venue, master of ceremony or whoever they come in contact with before they hire the videoguy, basically they are clueless and might also just look on the internet and pick the first ones they see that fit in their budget.

Then you have the client who wants a specific style which they have seen from another videographer that is outside their budget and then you get questions like Steve got "are your videos cinematic" or "I like that vintage look style from videographer x, is that something you can do to?"

and last you have the ones that are a fan of your work because they have been looking at many videos online until they saw your work and here your own trailers make the biggest difference, or you might have shot their friends wedding and they saw the long version and loved it and they only want you to shoot their wedding and nobody else.

In any case if you feel you got problems getting your year booked full you probably will have to become more diverse and offer lots of extra's and sell yourself as good as you can on your website.

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

Eventhough I have shot for about 5 years with one camera only when I started out I very well know what the limitations are and I have been thinking a lot on how to deal with that, at the ceremony I most likely will be running a second unmanned camera as safety wide just to cover me if somethings might go wrong that I cannot back up with b-roll footage but if all goes well I don't plan on using that extra camera in the edit. In this way I can cut back my edit time a lot but I need to choose my compositions very carefully and also shoot with the edit in mind, meaning get as much as b-roll as possible using the same camera.

For bridal entry I just stand behind the groom when she approaches and when she reaches the altar I just go to my tripod and place the camera there to cover the priest or whoever will come up front to say something, the only tricky part is finding the time to get enough headshots and that I can only do when they play a song or when someone sings live, when they just play music from a cd that is my moment i can get my b-roll footage but if they have a live singer I most likely will be forced to attach a cx730 to my tripod and leave it running unmanned pointed towards the singer.

I still have a week to figure that all out :) The wedding I have to shoot will have a singer during the ceremony, they said she only would perform one song so that limits my time for shooting other stuff.

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

I like Noa's new approach because it is not going back to an old boring way of doing thimgs, it is going back to basics which is completely different. It is about using carefully honed skills to produce a product that captures the day and is visually interesting. It is not about a few minutes of froth and music and is a different product.

There are now different wedding video products availalable and as Steve said, more and more people are offering 'Cinematic' style shorts as a main product. Most prospective clients haven't a clue what they want from a video and I am finding many more couples at trade shows that are asking about highlight and cinematic videos. They generally have no idea what they are but they are buzz words that they have picked up from suppliers and websites. When we tell them yes we do cinematic short videos but also ask them if they have considered a documentary style, they are usually equally unaware what that is. Sometimes they are surprised that they can have a 90-120 min documentary of their day and quite often they tell us that we are the only company they have seen offering it. That doesn't mean that eithe style is better, simply that if people aren't offered something, they don't have a choice. Three of the last four bookings we have taken were from people who wanted doc style, but couldn't find anyone offering it so had decided not to have a video until they found us.

As regards a joint photo and video package, I just don't get how that can be seen as a gimmick. Still photos are traditional at a wedding, hardly a gimmick, whereas video is often thought of as something uneccesary by most couples. Offering a combined package is an opportunity to make available the photography that they always want and the chance to show them what our videos are all about, with the convenience of having both in one booking. If the quality of either is below the standard that they require, then they won't book either.

Usually, couples will book a photographer well in advance as an essential, with a video usually an after thought nearer the date if they have any money left. Offering both has meant that we see couples much earlier in their planning, giving us a chance to show them the advantages of a video and how the two work together. We've found that usually results in them rating video more highly. If couples haven't already booked a photographer when we first see them, we almost always end up with a joint package, even though we also offer them both seperately. This has meant that we are booking much further ahead than ever before, having 25 contracted joint packages already this year, with 4 more shows still to go before the Spring. We also have 10 contracted for 2017 and 3 for 2018, which I think shows that we are not outdated or out of touch, but are supplying a service that many people want.

Roger

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

Thanks Noa ..that's interesting! In my single camera days I used to set the tripod down, offset in the aisle and do a handheld shot of the bridal party entering and then panic a bit as soon as they went past me as I struggled to get the camera from my hands to the tripod before the priest started talking or the celebrant began talking!

Now Steve? I have no idea whether these weekend warriors are good or bad but the BIG issue is that most budget brides want a simple coverage from start to end and they might look at an online sample and say. "OK that looks fine" and decide on a video. If there are 10 video guys all offering what the bride considers as the "same thing" so she can pay $399 up to $2399 so guess what she will choose?? For the weekend warrior there is plenty of jobs at his discount price so as long as she is reasonably content he doesn't really care whether she is over the moon with it or not ..he just moves on to the next job.

In a niche market I feel you will get a more choosy bride who knows what she wants and because it's a specialised service you don't have 50 wannabe's offering the same thing for half the money! The issue is what to offer! I have always wanted to do a REAL wedding documentary ..I watched a 3 part series on our pay channel called "Little People - Big World" where the son got married... it was so well done using a full story with lots of inset video of the family's thoughts and emotions cut in with the actual event. I must admit that if I was a bride THAT would be the sort of wedding story I would treasure ... whether it would be practical I have no idea!!!

Here is a quick bit of them choosing a wedding cake ..I love the way the production keeps cutting back to their thoughts (obviously shot later and inserted into the footage) The whole wedding was done this way so the story telling is superb!!

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A few years back there was a similar Belgian tvshow (like little people big world) where brides where followed during their wedding, a bride that booked me was contacted and then she called me to ask if I was ok with that to have another videoteam with her that day.

Later on I wished I had said "no" and that was the brides opinion as well, what at first looked like a "I"m going to be on tv!" moment turned out to be a obtrusive and privacy invading nightmare. I always try to be that fly on the wall, try to capture natural moments without giving the couple the feeling they are on a filmset but these tv guys where almost literally breathing in the couples neck all the time.

They started with the groom and went with him to the bride for the first look, when the groom went to the door the cameraman followed like a shadow just behind the groom, when the door opened and the bride came out the camera- and soundman (with a boom) where so close to the couple they blocked my view so I missed that moment completely, then inside the house there was music playing and the soundguy said, "can you pls turn of that music?" so what started as a relaxed morning turned out to be a filmset with the director calling the shots. They blocked my view so many times trying to get their shot that once we where at the photoshoot I went to the 3 guys (there was also an assistant to take care of problems and do the interviews) saying I was fed up with them not considering me and if they would block my view once more that I would do the same with them. Only after that they back down a bit and looked where I was standing.

The bride was very disappointed and wished she had never agreed to that, also because I missed some important moments because of them.

I"m just giving this as example because if you want to shoot in the style of little people big world you need to be so close to people all the time plus you need a dedicated soundguy, also you need ot get permission from everyone they visit for their wedding preparation and if they don't want that then there goes your story. If it's for tv then vendors are often more cooperative because they can get free advertising out of it on tv.

As I see it it's way to much work to make a documentary like that + I"m not sure if you would find enough couples willing to have a camera so close to them all the time.

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

Hey Noa

Comments are appreciated ... because I like the concept doesn't mean the bride would like it of course! It comes out as a great story though ... In this series during the actual ceremony there was no in your face shots as far as I could see and remember all the cutaway shots are done remotely not during the actual shoot. Apart from liking the idea, the advantage of being able to shoot more footage at each wedding was an advantage too ... Brides here tend to favour Saturday's and I can only shoot one wedding at a time so if I can get more work from each wedding I can make a better living .... in practice quite often I only do 4 weddings a month for $XXXX and they usually only want me for 8 hours maximum ...if I can persuade brides to "hire" me for a LOT longer for their wedding story then I have more work per wedding and of course more income. Maybe it would only appeal to TV audiences and not brides?? As videographers were seem to be pretty far down on their priority list so most have a limited budget! It would be nice to earn substantially more "per wedding" as each month they are limited....Hmmm maybe another add-in might work ..I'm open to suggestions!!

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

Because video is still such a low priority with a large percentage of couples, I have started to think that it really doesn't matter what type of video you are trying to sell. Most couples will have a pre conceived idea of what a wedding video is, either from very limited viewing of a friend's wedding, the odd website or just assumption. Most of the discussion about what is the most attractive is between videographers on websites like this, where producers will always believe that their way of working and product is the best way.

At the risk of sounding like a cracked record and fulfilling my own criticisms above, selling yourself and talking in a relaxed and informative way to people is as important as your product. Couples really do need information on what is possible and what you personally bring to it, to give them a broad view to base their decision on. For me, wedding shows are vital as it makes that initial friendly, non pushy and non technical contact that makes them remember you over the others. We make a point of never taking details at a show or even considering taking bookings. Instead, we talk about why they decided to get married, what sort of venue they are having and have a very informal chat before even broaching the subject of what we do. They get so tired of being sold services at shows that they visibly relax after a few seconds and enjoy talking about their plans. We make sure they have a brochure before they move on, then if they get back to us, we always arrange to meet up and will only reserve a date over the phone rather than accepting a booking. For us, the total undersell works really well and it is very unusual not to take a booking after we visit a couple.

Many couples never get a chance to speak to videographers, and many videographers rely on websites, Facebook, brochures etc and communicate by email. That means that the opportunity to get the full information across is lost and pre conceived perceptions will usually sway the couples decision. Many videographers and photographers are technically minded people and find it easier to rely on remote communication, but actually building a client relationship can be very positive to sales and can be extended through social media.

I'm not suggesting it works for everyone, but if they like and feel comfortable with you, they will listen carefully to what you have to say. If they meet you for the first time, whether you are a seasoned professional or a weekend warrior, and you try sell to them with technical information and make it about you, they will never get to know you and are likely to remain defensive.

Roger

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

Just as a follow. on to my previous post, the wedding show we attended last weekend, had an attendance of 650 brides according to the entry registration. Given the size of the show, we probably had perhaps 150-200 that noticed our stand. Many of those may not have bothered to look, or there were a lot of people around us, or perhaps they were looking for dresses or cakes. Even so, given that only about 10% book a video, that leaves potentially 20 brides that may have been interested if they spoke to us.

We have already taken 5 confirmed bookings from the show, plus 5 further appointments to visit couples so far, that I confidently expect to turn into bookings. Out of the 5 booked so far, 2 hadn't thought about a video at all, 2 had decided they didn't want one having seen other suppliers and one already wanted a video. Without speaking to the 4 waverers, there would only have been one booking. Out of the 20 potential bookers that I estimated from those that walked past, we will probably have 50% booked already, which is a great return for the less than the £200 cost of the show.

We also found that 135 brochures had been taken, many while we were tied up talking and past experience tells us that enquiries will come in for up to 6 months after the show and often longer. The actual number of bookings over a longer period of time is likely to increase considerably.

Although many on this forum are looking at ways of increasing their sales through specialized products and remote marketing, don't underestimate the power of face to face marketing of what you already have.

Roger

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

If I added Photography to my service, it would be a gimmick, why, because I've no interest in it and would simply be adding it for extra business. I see some Photographers doing the same with video. If you're doing both because you're interested in both professions equally and want to offer that service, then yes I agree its not a gimmick. It does as Roger say bring advantages in meeting and booking clients much earlier than video alone.

One of the reasons I prefer multi camera is that the results don't require some tricks in the timeline to balance out the edit. It is presented as recorded live, with the edit a case of selecting simply the best camera angle. I may play with the timeline for my shorter 30-40 min video, and slightly in the longer edit to cover any issues on the day, but the couple always get an uncut Ceremony with no tricks, no special grading apart from basic exposure and colour correction. I would feel uncomfortable recording segments of the Ceremony to be used elsewhere in the edit. When I get guests reactions for Ceremony and Speeches, I always leave them at the point where I grabbed them. It feels more honest and not re-writing history in the edit. Its tricks like that, cutaways to decorations and other such nonsense why I generally poo poo the whole single camera coverage. Plus it doesn't sound less stressful - feels like more hassle that simply plonking a small camera at the back.

I've just finished editing a full length Wedding Video, 1 hour 50 mins in length. I certainly feel I captured the day and used my carefully honed skills to produce something that was visually interesting, and the beauty is, I didn't even have to go back to basics to achieve it. Okay, the couple did get a few minutes of froth and music - I call it a Trailer and to be honest, a few minutes of froth and music is exactly what all Trailers are.

I always get asked how long my videos are; most seem to think I mean 30 mins when I say I offer longer videos!!! I think many in the profession are turning towards the 15-20 min shortform, so my full length is not one I'm going to ever stop offering, though I shall push my shorter videos as well. In fact Roger's comments make me think I need to broadcast this dual edit a whole lot more. A rewrite of my home page I think.

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

Steve, promoting your dual edit so that they have the full version and the short froth is a good one and covers both sides of the story. It is basically what we do, with a short highlights video included if they want one. It covers all bases, just as we offer photography only, video only or the combined package. The good thing with the combined package is that they are starting to come back for baby photos, christenings and family photos, which almost never happens for video only.

Interestingly, we have never had a photography only for weddings, they always want the joint package even if they were initially just interested in the photography. Video only is usually when they already have a photographer booked or have a particular photographer that they want as they know his work or have used him before.

Roger

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

Lets not underestimate the power of social media. When most friends communicate through Facebook and Twitter, many couples are probably more comfortable with that side of communication than they are face to face. How many couples have met online, formed a bond with someone via the internet before meeting face to face.

In regards to specialise products; what is a specialised product? If you offer a Photo booth, is that a service or a specialised product. If its not, then how is Marryoke, Video booth and Messages a specialised product. Is offering drones a specialised product, or just another tool of filming. I see some companies offer drones, sliders and gimbals for their top package only, so its a deal breaker to justify their low cost packages. Then again I do that, just from offering to stay till midnight. I'm not sure where all this specialised products stuff springs from. I look at mine more like side orders you get on a menu; something extra if the couple want a bit more.

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

I do know the advantages of using more camera's but that is not the problem, the problem is the added bulk (camera's and tripods) I need to drag along which is what I want to prevent with my bad back, if I only had to shoot the ceremony I wouldn't mind using 4 camera's as long as I have all the time to set up and after the ceremony clean up and go home so I can take my time but on a full weddingday I don't have that luxury and it's because I have to move fast I fear that a wrong move might leave me immobile again.

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

Noa, I'm not knocking your reasons. Theres business reasons and health reasons in your case to scale back. Less editing time, less equipment to maintain and carry. I just don't buy that going single camera or back to basics leads to better focus on the detail and emotion on the event as you it, or provide a more visually interesting video as Roger puts it. Feels the equivalent of me saying I'm going to film a Wedding with 1 arm tied behind my back and as long as I'm creative and inventive enough and know how to use my other arm well, I'll deliver an exceptional video. Yeah, but I'll still do better with both arms. :)

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

I don't think that anyone has suggested that using one camera gives a more visually interesting product or more attention to detail. The point is that an experienced camera person with skill and imagination can film a wedding giving attention to detail and keeping it visually interesting, not better than a multi camera shoot, but also not necessarily worse, it just takes a different approach. Using four cameras, cranes, dollies, drones etc is not going to give you great video if the operators have no real idea what they are doing, so lots of cameras doesn't neccesarily make for better video, but they do give more options. Of course using lots of gear with great operators is another matter.

The big advantage with one camera operation is speed and mobility, particularly when short handed or solo. Setting up and breaking down multi cameras and ancillary equipment can be comparatively time consuming and an additional burden on mobility even though there can also be advantages of course. For our work, we like to keep it as simple as possible, using quick clamps for second and third cameras if we feel they are required and one camera only for as much as possible.

As I have constantly reiterated it's less about what you've got and more about how you use it. There is also no right or wrong or better or worse way of working it's what you are comfortable with and whether or not the end product is saleable.

Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market
 

I agree that multi camera setup can be time consuming, though with practise I've brought the time down to manageable levels. It is stressful before and after setting up 4-5 cameras that I use and my bag weighs a tonne. Though recently found its fits snuggly in a travel suitcase on wheels I have. So I'll be making better use of that. I can see for some its a stress they can well do without, but for me the rewards in the footage I get is worth the hassle.