What do you tell '07 clients about shooting HD?
 

Okay, so we just grabbed three Canon XHA1s and an HV20 and are all set to film in HD. The thing is, when we did the upgrade we were almost fully booked for '07 under contracts that had no mention of HD.

For those who can now shoot HD and have contracts pending for SD projects, how do you handle this?

I am considering offering everybody an upgrade price so they can have their video re-released in HD when it is easier to deliver. If I do that, I could edit in HD and donconvert on export or try and edit in DV and then reimport in HDV down the road. Considering how busy we are, I was also thinking of not saying anything and just delivering SD and leaving it at that. My concern is that our website now mentions HD and our cameras clearly say it as well so it wouldn't be too unlikely that a current couple sees it somewhere and asks about HD later. Of course everthing will be shot in HD so it would be possible, but if it means re-editing anything it really wouldn't be worth the cost to have it done.

So, how do you handle this? Please only respond if you can actually shoot HD now but have pending contracts for SD work.

Patrick
www.still-motion.ca

I offer it to all of my clients but most do not care if it's shot in HD due to the extra cost. Last year out of 118 weddings, I had 21 people choose HD. Out of those 21 only about 1/2 paid extra, the other ten clients paid $100 extra.
I wanted to push as many to HDV to test out the work flow. Since I have a significant amount of extra work with HD, I have decided not to give anymore discounts on HD.

I now charge $500 upgrade to get HD on Blue ray disk, HDV Master tapes(NLE timeline printed to tape) and SD DVD's. Extra copies of Blue Ray DVD's are $50 each disk. I also give the option of Tvix.

I have 15 clients this year and only 2 have decided to go HD. I have a few great demos, one from an outdoor wedding where HD really shines and one from a chatholic church that has great light. I do not push HD were lighting is less then optimal considering SD looks as good if not better in low light, in my opinion.

Jon

118 weddings... wow, thats a fair bit of work there.. good stuff..

as for your situation Pat, i think that during the edit, you shoud advise the cleint that a high definition option is availble.
Using the excitiement of the finished work itself will hype them up and make them WANT to upgrade.

Drop me an eamil pat and i'll send you a standard letter which i send to clietns who ask for this then dont follow through.. lol

Yes, 118 is too many.... LOL

I am only booking 20 weddings this year, I need a break. Combined the weddings with sports, corporate and misc = ONE BIG HEADACHE

Jon

Thanks Peter, I sent an email over to you.

The problem I am running into is with same day edits and HD. We use a firestore to edit the SDE quicker and so I need to edit the SDE in HD if the camera is recording in HD, which slows things down when there is already not enough time. To avoid this, I would need to shoot in SD so that the firestore records in SD and I can do a quicker edit. By doing that, the couple loses the option to do HD in the future.

I'm thinking of offering a $5-700 upgrade to have it shot and edited in HD which includes an HD DVD in the future. If they opt out of it, I will tell them that it will all be done in SD and the option won't be there letter, thereby making the SDE easier.

Anybody else out there with the same problem?

Seriously? You were averaging more than 2 weddings a week for the entire year??

Not to hijaack this thread but yes during the months of June through November we had more than 4 some weekends. During the months of January through June we had 1 or 2 per weekend.

Our prices were too low and everyone booked. Last year, for $1200 to $1400 you would get a 3 camera Ceremony and 2 Camera Reception depending on who shot the wedding. If the couple wanted a full day coverage, like Bridal Prep, Rehearsal and more the price was higher.

Jon

Wow . . just wow . . . on the fact that you could actually shoot 4 weddings in a weekend . . . and on the fact that I charge the same for the same coverage and it's like pulling teeth to get brides here to book. Glad to hear you raised your prices. 118 weddings would simply kill me.

Okay, back on topic. Sorry guys!

What is included in your same day edit, how long is it? We offered same day edits last year in HD using firestores & DV Rack. Our same day edits included about a 5 to 10 minute highlight. Depending on the length, a same day edit is definately possible. Check this link for same day edit, Jason was shooting with FX1's and he had one of the best same day edits I have watched, period. For that matter its better than most wedding videos where the editors have weeks.
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...light=day+edit

SDE Linear Style
 

My goal is to offer HD packages that allow me to shoot more than one wedding in a weekend.

I recently performed a SDE for a friend, and pulled it off linear style. I would find great (tripod) shots, recording for five seconds or so on each shot. Then for the ceremony I followed everything with one camera & wireless mic. Then at the reception I SVideo'd the cam into my projector and played it. For the pre and post ceremony shots I used the PA for music. It was completely on the fly, but gave me the option of bypassing the computer altogether on the wedding day.

Now I am going to recreate what I played and burn the DVD. Since it was a freebee I took the risk, but I'm sold on the idea, and want to learn how to pull off the some thing using footage from two FX1s instead of one, so it's more of a production than a background video for the reception.

Thanks for the info Jon. I did see Jason's SDE before so I do know what is possible, just going over different options. Our SDEs are usually 6 min or under so it shouldn't be too bad with a firestore.

Is anybody shooting with HD cams and only delivering SD without giving the couple to upgrade or even mentioning it to them?

I don't do anything in SD. I don't want to confuse the client. I only want to put my best foot forward, and anything but widescreen HDV would not make me look as good. I'm also used to shooting widescreen since my transition last year and don't want to have to think about it.

Patrick..

We shot with FX1's and Z1's and deliver it in SD all of the time. No option for the client to go HD, even though it was shot in HD. If proper lighting is available the downconverted HD looks much better than SD. We shoot SD with pd170's.

Jon

Thanks Jon,

I think I will offer it to some and explain to everybody else that it will still look better in SD now that we are shooting with these cams. I sold all of our PDs and VX cams as the Canon Hd cams are native 16:9 in SD and there are so many other features that are quite the improvement. We will only be shooting with the Hd cams now.

Thanks again.

So do you shoot with PD170's if you know the ceremony or reception is going to be low light, and just not even mention HD to the bride?

We determine the best camera solution for each wedding/event, if HD cameras are available. The only issue with shooting HD and then downconverting is the 16x9 versus 4:3. Most clients do not mind the black bars at the bottom and top. We always let the client know that we are shooting with HD cam and ask if 16X9 is a problem. We do not off HD to people who do not chose it first even though its available.

I had one couple ask for HD after the fact. I told them there would be a significant cost due to the fact that I would have to re-edit.

Jon

Why would you have to re-edit? Don't you save your projects? Even if you deleted the media from your hard drive, you should be able to open the project, and recapture in HDV. Render all your effects and you are good to export for DVD production.

Any half decent NLE should let you do this...

For NON-HD clients where we shot in HDV, we downcovert on capture. Yes, it would definately be possible to re-edit if we used our NLE to downcovert versus the camera.

Although, it might be a good test to capture the footage in HDV, convert to cineform and see if things match up.

Jon

I shoot almost everything in HD now and am moving toward doing all the editing in HD also, so the main issue is whether someone wants to pay extra to get an actual HD disc. Once I have the workflow pinned down that's something which could be decided at any point along the way, and you could even invite couples over to your studio to see the difference for themselves. If they don't want to pay for HD just store the HD master on a hard drive for demo purposes and don't bother with burning the HD disc. On the off chance someone comes back later for HD, then charge them the upgrade fee at that time.

No kidding. Just had a tire kicker call in asking for prices. That was what she was most interested in so I just threw out a number (I don't have packages, it all depends on what she wants in the movie) and she did the "Ok thanks" bit and hung up.

Fin by me I suppose. I haven't had too many of those calls because I used to have prices that were 1/2 everyone else in Boise and they knew it. But now that I raised them it seems to be harder....

jason

Jason, that's because most of the brides here are uneducated when it comes to video. They tend to think anyone with a camera can do the same job . . not true at all . . but they don't realize that.

Travis, i think that applies for pretty much every bride's attitude to what we do..

I do everything in HD knowing that brides aren't ready for it, but also knowing that I won't need to upgrade in the future. I've been shooting SD for five years without owning my own gear. Now I own my gear and went for HD. If I found myself in the industry with SD gear, I wouldn't sell it for HD yet.

As far as pricing, I don't charge more because it's all I do. I'm letting my work speak for me, and I'm anticipating that every year I'll be able to raise my rates to meet the demand.

Patrick.

I have HDV cams (FX1s) but only deliver in SD. I have not marketed in HD yet and none are asking. I'm sure if I start selling it, people would buy. But I have yet to pin down the workflow for SDE production (which is an integral part of our work).

I haven't worked out the pricing structure too.

Jason

Jason,

I know what you mean about SDE. I have a couple clients who want HD and a SDE, s the current plan is to cut it and shot it in HD. IT will be great in the end, just adds to the stres sof putting it all together. I think I'm going to offer HD as an upgrade but hopefully only get 3-4 people to go for it to test it out.

Pat, a dual core pentium with Vega 7 and Magic Bullet 2 willl give you faster than realtime rendering in HDV

ANother option is to capture as DV for the SDE, then later onin post, remove teh SD files, open the project and let the application rebuild the edit by asking to "recaptrue" the footage.. u then capture it as HDV and teh project rebuilds itslef based on timecode..
I know premiere, edius and vegas do this. Liquid has some issues (due to databasing) but mostely it works..
Im sure FCP would also do this..

I'm all mac and FCP, so I need to find a solution that works that way. Problem is the firestore won't record to SD while the camera is recording to HD, so I have to choose one or the other. The other option would be to capture and downconvert but the firestore just saves so much time I would prefer to edit HDV and show it that way over capturing in real time.