Great advice, Dave. I do seem to remember reading that somewhere on here recently. Thanks for reminding me. I mark all my cameras so I might as well mark these recorders.

Question. After reading this thread I went out and bought this same dvr. Where should i go to find a mic to hook up with this? I have a wedding saturday and i need something quick. And if I can't get it for this weekend what mics would you guys suggest I go with? I saw a post earlier about the Giant Squid website.

I simply used the mic's that came with my Azden wireless set. I imagine any mic with an 1/8" plugin will work.

Cool. Thanks.

I purchased one of the Giant Squids and it did a fantastic job. I only had the one ds-30 and put it on the groom. I picked up both the bride and groom as if both had their own. It even picked up the preacher.

Then during the lighting of the unity candle, both the bride and groom whispered their prayers and it picked that up also.

I think that's where I was leaning toward. You guys have no idea how of an much impact you all have made on the way I shoot and look at things concerning weddings and just everyday videography. Also just to add to something mentioned earlier. The DSS player software does work with mac. There was a mac file on the cd. That's all.

will be purchasing a few of the olympus recorders, is there any advantage of the ds-40 over the ds-30?

will mostly be used for recording dialogue for ceremonies (officiant, groom, scripture readings) and music at the reception.

thanks

I see Alastair and you have linked to a procedure I wrote a while back to try and help with this problem. Hope you found some of the info useful!

What doesn't come across in that procedure is the fact that, even if the remote audio recorder makes a recording that is exactly at the correct sample frequency, you might still have to adjust the length to match audio recorded on the camera -even if that's slighlty wrong!

Because the camera audio is in sync with the video, it becomes the master track, even if the camera control crystal frequency is slightly off, and so all other audio tracks will have to be corrected to that reference.

I believe all the Olympus recorders sample at 44KHz, and DV (and DVD) require 48KHz sampled audio. Converting from one sample rate to another shouldn't change the length of the converted audio at all, but I believe it can change with some software converters. That can of course make things better (or worse). Each individual combination will be different.

Most digital recording devices, and certainly all camcorders and solid state audio recorders, have an oscillator that acts as a system master 'clock', and this is usually controlled by a crystal. (Some very cheap devices use ceramic resonators, but these are considerably less accurate!).
Crystals are manufactured to resonate at a specific frequency, but this can be affected by a number of factors -temperature, ageing, and of course manufacturing tolerances.

As a result, there is always going to be some variation between devices. These differences are small - a typical commercial grade crystal will be accurate to within 0.003% of it's stated frequency-- but can be significant.

Sadly, this is particularly true for wedding videography, where individual 'takes' can extend to 30 minutes or more. Crystal tolerances of the order mentioned above can cause out of sync 'drift' of up to 200 milliseconds over an hour for example.

It should be remembered that although this drift is not likely to be variable over this preiod of time -the crystals are pretty stable short term wise - so adding a correction factor calculated from a procedure like the one I described is fairly easy.
There are loads of other ways of doing the same thing, of course, depending on what software you're using.

Remember though, the camera track must be the master, even if it's has the largest error!

Roger, thanks for the informative post. I've now marked my DVR's so I can track which one is which (meant to do this a long time ago anyways). It should make syncing even easier in the future.

Progress report on using the DS-30 recorder
 

Hi All:
I can't begin to tell you how pleased I am with using the Ds-30 recorder. In my previous posting I said that I would be taping two investment seminars for a local company. I just finished editing both morning and afternoon tapings. I had taped on Wed July 16th. I used two recorders. An Olympus WS-300m, which I have used for weddings and it worked great, and the Olympus DS-30 recorder. The DS-30 was the greatest. I found that the WS-300m had a slight hum in the background but the DS-30 had no hum. On the DS-30 I used the setting of "Low Set" for the Noise Cancel, and "Dict" setting as Travis had used in his setting. Audio was Great. When I edited in post I laid the track under the main camera audio track and sync up with the beginning with that of the video. Then I went to the end, picked a reference point, put a marker in at that point, and after some experimenting found that with my system I could change the Ds-30 audio clip by 100.19 and it synced up beautifully. Oh almost forgot, I converted the Ds-30 audio to 48000hz and 16bits stereo wav. I am using PPro CS3. No longer do I have to worry about interference from A/C's or anything else. I just ordered another DS-30 from Amazon.com. Also you can use your old mike from Azden or, I think, most others. Thanks Travis for starting this thread on the DS-30. It has opened a new door in capturing audio free from interference.

"Make that 5 Thumbs Up"

Good Luck to All
Harry

Glad it's working for you and glad I could help.

Hi Warren,

I just received my ds-30 and wanted to know can the audio be resampled in Vegas Pro 8 or Soundforge Studio version? I have Vegas, but was thinking about purchasing Soundforge Studio 9.

Thanks,
Troy

I just order a DS-30, minutes ago.

can someone recommend an affordable Lav Mic to go along with this...

thx

Hi David,

I have tested my ds-30 with a $25 mic that I used w/ my iriver 895 recorder. It's the omni mono mic that you can get at http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/gs/gs-mono1.htm and so far it works pretty good. I have a wedding this weekend so the real test will be then:-)
I will let everyone know how it goes.

Troy

Thanks for the link,
What cable size length would work best? (to mic a groom, priest or podium...)
Will 5 feet be to long?

5 feet is plenty. I believe that's what I have.

Troy

I bought 3 of these from the tone of this thread and the fact that they're less than a fifth of the price of a Sennheiser G2. I've done 3 weddings with them and am very impressed.

The only problems I've encountered were when I had one running out of a tiny 4-track P.A. directly (dumb move) and feedback caused it to shut off. It would cut in and out after that. It wasn't a big deal as I switched it during dinner and nothing was missed. But I just clip a lav mic on the podium after that.

The other problem is with a female officiant yesterday; no pockets. There's no clip on these and so nowhere to stick it on the officiant. Luckily there was a microphone set up to pick up the ceremony for the audience so I just clipped a lav on there and hid the DS-30 on the ground underneath.

Even so, the audio turned out fine. I'll have to eq it a little as it's understandably on the treble side.

T

Thanks for reminding me. I need to find some sort of a clip that will fit through the belt loop slot for situations like you mentioned.

I used the ds-30 for a wedding I had this past weekend and it worked perfectly. I placed it on the groom and a iriver on the officiant. I haven't synced in post yet, so I'm not sure if this will be a problem. If so I will try the suggestion to resamp at 48 hz using vegas.

Troy

I've used the Olympus WM-311M recorder for the past two weddings and have found the audio to be outstanding. The 311 also uses the Stereo XQ mode that the DS-30 uses, however it only records to one channel (which I can easily fix in post.) The first wedding was a little nerve racking knowing that I couldn't monitor the recording or even check to see if it was still on. It was very easy to use - all recording options/settings are all buried in the menu and are retained in the memory even after changing batteries. So once it's setup to record in the highest record mode and dictation turned on - there is nothing else to set up. Just turn it on, hit record and switch the power button over to hold and you're good to go.

I've recorded close to two hours the other day in one take without a hitch (bride was an hour late to the ceremony - not her fault, motorcoach was delayed for some reason.) I was concerned with the battery life on it and even delayed starting the recorder some 15 mins after the official start of the ceremony thinking that she had to be arriving soon. So what I did record was the groom chatting with his guests and groomsmen - he may have been a little reserved knowing that he had a mic on, but there was a few good comments he made about his future wife and himself that may make the final wedding edit.

One thing that I do want to comment on is the use of the Giant Squid mics. I think that they record great audio, however I just don't like the way that the tie clip is positioned on the mic. It makes it stick out away from the grooms jacket and line up right over his shirt - black mic with a white shirt as a backdrop becomes a little distracting. So I position the mic lower so it blends in over the darker vest. I'd like to get rid of the permanent GS clip and get a new one. The one that came with my other audio mic is too small for the Squid and I could also use a wind screen for it, the shiny metal a the top of the mic is distracting also. Does anyone have any solutions for a windscreen or new tie clip for the Giant Squid mics?

You can get white giant squids with white cords, and white wind socks for them - or re the latter, do what I did, spray paint a couple of black ones white. I guess you could spray your black GS's for that matter.

I have a large furry windscreen that I bought for my mics. I think they are Rycotes or something like that? They work great.

DS-30 Line-in support
 

Hi,

Does the ds-30 support direct line-in connections? For example, if I wanted to connect
to a audio sound board.

Thanks,
Troy

Only if you were coming out of a headphone monitor or something like that. Otherwise you'd have to knock it down quite a few dB. The sound coming out from a sound board output is too hot for any recorder like this to handle.

T

Olympus DA-30 Wedding Audio Samples
 

Hello,

I recorded a wedding this weekend and here are some sample audio/video clips using the olympus da30. Only the groom was mic'd and I think both audio clips were pretty good.
Also, I shoot w/ vx2100's and use Vegas as my editor. I say this because there were some post in this thread about sync problems. As you can see in the brides clip that the sync was dead on. Here is a really short .wav sample (see below) of the groom and a video/audio sample of the bride. Oh and by the way I am not affiliated with olympus in any way shape or form:-)

Hope this helps.
Troy D

groom (wav) : http://www.focusmd.com/olympus/groom..._da30_samp.wav
bride (flv): http://www.focusmd.com/olympus/video_samp.html

Hello Troy - the two samples sound good and look great. Are you using the Giant Squid mics? If so are you using the standard mic clip - and what wind screen are you using? I found that the Olympus recorders and the GS mics work fantastic but the mics are larger than I'm used to and are harder to hide on the grooms jacket. I may order two more mics without the clips attached or see if he can position them differently. One black and one white( cause I know one day the groom will jump out of the limo wearing a white tux.)

Thanks,
Mike

Hi Mike,

Thanks. Yes, I only have 1 olympus and it was placed on the groom w/ the GS mic. I believe it's the standard mic. It looks pretty small to me and on a dark tux is hardly noticeable. You're correct about a white mic being needed. Does GS offer these? Also, i read in this thread about different windscreen options, but haven't purchase one yet. I've been booked all August and 4 more weddings in the coming months and only 1 is outside so I think I will need a windscreen. I will look at some older post to see what's best. Btw, I also used the Olympus at the reception with the plugin mic that comes with it and it worked great. I just placed it next to the DJ's speaker and it was crystal. As long as the DJ's music isn't too loud it works great. Hope this helps.

Okay, so I've mentioned before how the audio from these systems will not necessarily sync properly to your video footage, and it requires adjustment. Well, this situation is throwing me for a loop.

I had a ~25min clip that I have sync'd at the beginning, and it is still pretty close to sync'd near the end (just slightly off). The problem is that in the middle it is way off sync. I suppose this is related to the crystal in the device, maybe? I just can't believe that it could be correct at the beginning and the end but not in the middle. Very frustrating.

I had this happen also. I sync'd at the beginning then stretched the audio so it was also sync'd at the end, but the middle was out. I had to slide each of the multicam clips in the middle section that were out so they sync'd up.

Hmm, I've never had that happen.

Usually what I do is line up the audio at the very start without changing the speed of the audio. Then I make it so the audio doesn't start until the very first moment it needs to be perfectly synched. Then I go to the very end and tweak the speed until it's just right.

Cutting the start of the audio is important because it keeps the whole thing from getting out of whack when you start messing with the speed. That's not to sound condescending, just a thought.

T

I isolated the problem. On the DVR audio there is about a 3/4 second segment of audio missing about a 1/3 of the way into the clip. It's just gone, like the DVR glitched and didn't record for that split second. This explains why the audio suddenly went out of wack so quickly. However, I still haven't figured out why it's out of wack near the end, but not nearly as badly. Once I cut the track and slid it to compensate for the missing audio segment, it sync'd perfectly from there until the end.

I thought maybe there was a glitch in the conversion from the DVR file to the WAV file, but the original file I have saved in the DSS Player software has the glitch as well. It's possible that the glitch occurred during capture of the file from the DVR to the software, but I can't test that since the original file is no longer on the DVR. Hopefully this only happens this one time as a freak occurrence.

so how does the DS-30 compare to the Zoom H2 audio quality wise?

and how come the zoom is like, more then twice the price?

From a brief search it looked like the DS30 is discontinued (meaning closeout pricing, and the replacements are closer to the H2 price...

AND, they are two different animals - the H2 is designed around being able to record surround sound, and oriented towards the music market (that's where the Zoom brand started), where Olympus (stereo) is oriented towards a "office" or business dictation market.

Practically, this is where the small and mono iRiver still works pretty well - easy to stick in a jacket pocket, rig a lav, press record, pick it up later, dump the audio and you're good to go. And it would appear the DS30 is in that same vein, where the H2 is getting a bit big to "pocket".

I think of the H2 as more of an "ambient" pickup, and with the multiple mic/camera sources the way I'm setting up, I'm finding I don't use it... Last wedding I set up two of the Sony bluetooth mics discreetly strapped on each side of the wedding arch, and got very good audio (even though apparently one mics batteries died... backup systems GOOD). I was happy to find that while no one could hear ANYTHING during the actual ceremony (priest didn't turn his wireless on, or more accurately the sound guy goofed up), I have perfect clear audio for everything but a scripture reading where the MOB wasn't near ANY mics... had to boost gain, but got something sort of usable... I think my end result is actually far better than actually being there, as the audio is good!

Good audio is by far the hardest thing about live events. When they start having scripture readings one place, singing in another, priests not turning on mics, brides and grooms whispering vows, strings playing the bride down the aisle, and organs blasting out the church it gets really hard to not botch something.

I've learned long ago not to trust whoever is running the audio board (if there is one) with all my audio. I do still pull that feed, but you do need plenty of other mics scattered around.

Hi All...

This information is exactly what I need - Past experience of wireless systems makes me nervous to use them again and I was looking for a slimmer recorder than the Zoom H2 (which I'm presently using).

Regarding the lav microphone I use the Audio-Technica ATR53s (about £15) which works fine with my Zoom

Pete

Weve just ordered 2 of these and should be here in a couple of days.

What cables will I need so I can hook it up to the DJ's board? I expect I will need a selection to ensure I can connect to most boards?

Thanks

Setup with DS-30
 

I just bought 2 of these at the Circuit City going-out-business sale. Can someone tell me that exact settings you are using and what kind of results. Also, can you set this near a speaker in the reception and still get good audio?

I've just purchased and tested an Olympus WS-311M - Awsome! It records about 8 hours at top quality and is small and slim - perfect to slip into a jacket pocket. I'll now use my Zoom H2 for more ambient use or plugging into a church mixing desk.

Travis Cossel - Thanks for starting this post on the DS-30.... over a year ago!

I was about to order a $500 wireless Sennheiser set this weekend but I'm starting to see the great benefits of off-camera audio recorders (less risk and better audio, dollar for dollar). I'll be ordering two DS-30s for a wedding coming up this January.

This is my first post by the way. Love this forum.

I have both the WS311 and a Zoom H2. In order to get them to sync (and account for drift) properly, I recorded 50 minutes from both the camcorder and the audio recorders with a loud clap at the beginning and at the end. I then synced up the two in Audition (Vegas or Audacity will work too). I then documented the percentage of time stretch needed for each recorder compared to the camcorder. I now just time stretch the audio to those same figures each time I edit to account for drift.