Sony Vegas, anybody using it?
 

Hello all, was in Circuit City yesterday and noticed two versions of Vegas soft.
I remember seeing it in Videographer's magazine and that it got some awards. Do any of you use it? How is the interface etc? I was also confused with different versions, CC has yellow box for $99 and platinum edition for $149. I also saw like 10 different versions on Ebay. Please, give me your feedback.
Thank you in advance, KC.

Moved to our Sony Vegas forum.

You'll find LOTS of people using Vegas now that the message has been moved to the Vegas forum. The versions you're seeing at Circuit City are the "Movie Studio" versions. These are basically "lite" versions but still have tremendous power and functionality. They are great for starting out editing. Once you decide you need more power, you can always upgrade to the pro version.

You'll also find tons of help here and many resources for Vegas throughout the web.

Here's a comparison of the three versions of Vegas: Movie Studio, Movie Studio Platinmum, and Pro:

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/vegaspro/compare

Thank you, Ed.
What's the top of the line version named then? I'll look out for that one.

Sony Vegas Pro 8 is the current top o line product.

Holy Crack
 

$699 current price for it at CC site, does it really have $600 worth more bells and whistles than regular version?

Look around, you can get it much less expensively elsewhere.

Ebay has it for under 300, so what's the big difference between basic and pro versions?

See Ed's link for specifics, and lots of them.

Some of the basics that the Pro version opens up are unlimited tracks, built-in multicam, better monitoring, video scopes, and scripting.

The studio versions are a very inexpensive entry to a great editing environment. The pro version is well worth the price if you need its capabilities.

PS. beware pirated software on Ebay, and/or versions that don't include the excellent DVD-Architect. Good software is there too... Forum sponsors are good sources at good prices - I believe videoguys.com is currently running a Vegas special, but also check out B&H. Look for the link at the very upper right of any dvinfo.net page.

...way too many differences to mention between the pro and the home "lite" versions... check the sony site for the compare chart...but just one example is you have unlimited tracks in pro version and you are limited to just a handful of tracks in home version...i could not work with a limited track number...

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/vegaspro/compare

Also, Check out sponser here. I think BH Photo is still one, and they have had indirect specials to get you to Pro 8. Essentially you buy lower version (6 or 7), and then order 8 as an upgrade.

AFAIK, Vegas used to be a top of the line product. As of version 8, Sony seems to have forsaken all camera brands except Sony. My JVC HD110 has dropped frame on capture problems, and I've read similar problems for Canon HD cams. I've called customer support, only to be told after a protracted delay in answering, that it isn't their problem! Since so many people seem to have the same problem, it's a little bit of denial syndrome for Sony to ignore it.

Not sure what Sony is thinking, but, I'm pretty soured on vegas, right now.

It might... and it might not... it all depends on what you want to use it for. Without knowing your needs, no one can recommend which version is right for you. Here’s the way I see it:

Vegas Movie Studio: Home user/small business working in Standard Definition
Video: Standard Definition (SD)
Audio: Stereo 16-bit, WAV
Tracks: 8 tracks (4 video, 4 audio)
Transitions & FX: Lots
Differentiating Tools: Chroma Key

Vegas Movie Studio Platinum: Home user/small business working in High Definition
Video: High Definition (HD, HDV)
Audio: 5.1 Surround Sound 16-bit, AC3
Tracks: 8 tracks (4 video, 4 audio)
Transitions & FX: Lots
Differentiating Tools: Chroma Key, Primary Color Correction

Vegas Pro: Professionals working in either SD/HD that require more tracks and capabilities that the Studio versions don’t have.
Video: High Definition (HD, HDV, AVCHD, HD-SDI)
Audio: 5.1 Surround Sound 24-bit, AC3
Tracks: Unlimited video and audio
Transitions & FX: More than lots. ;-)
Differentiating Tools: Chroma Key Primary & Secondary Color Correction, Video Scopes, 2D/3D Parent/Child Compositing, Multi-Camera, Scripting, Media Manager, more...

As you can see, the tools and capabilities increase with each version with the largest jump going from Platinum to Pro. If you don’t need these tools and capabilities then there is no sense paying for them.

If you are working in standard definition and are just getting started, Vegas Movie Studio will keep you busy for quite while. It has a very powerful set of tools that are probably the best available for the price.

If you are working in high definition and are just getting started, Vegas Movie Studio Platinum will add high def and color correction to the standard Movie Studio tools.

If you are a professional, and need unlimited tracks, compositing, 24-bit audio, video scopes, etc. then you should expect to make your $699 back within your first few customers and it’s a business expense anyway so why worry about the price? ;-) Seriously, don't pay $699. You can get it a lot cheaper. The point is, that it has support for features that you might not need and you can always upgrade later when you do.

If the comparison chart that Edward pointed you too did not answer your questions, then I recommend that the Movie Studio version is probably fine for your needs unless you’re shooting HD in which case getting the Platinum version would be best. Spend the $99 or $149 and don’t look back. You will be amazed at what Vegas Movie Studio can do.

~jr

Thank you all.
Great advices.

I'm no lover of Sony, but Vegas MSP8 has been doing just fine capturing footage from my Canon HV20. My biggest gripe is not being able to batch capture or capture in blocks using timecode with HDV content. And their use of non-standard terms (like event instead of clip).

unlimited tracks & video scopes for the win
 

My last project had around 38 tracks (video & audio) because some media files needed specific track level real-time effects (I only have 4 video tracks, the rest were audio). If one track needed filter A set to "X" then more than likely the next clip needed a slightly different value for X, so it went onto another track.

The Video scopes are where you move from "home video" to pro productions. Once you hit color correction and you need to "crush" your black levels or "blow out" the whites, you won't know if you are doing it consistently just by looking unless you can see the scopes and make sure your whites are touching 100IRE.... etc etc.

Pro is absolutely where it is at. I told a friend who was looking to cut DVDs for her husband's football teams (high school coach) to just get Movie Studio. She is a school teacher, and no offense to teachers, limited technically. But it clicked instantly and she was able to do everything she needed (this is after trying Windows Movie Maker, iMovie on a friends system, Liquid, and some other low end thing).

When I started using Vegas (back when 6 just came out), I downloaded the demo for 6 and immediately knew I didn't want the "studio" version. Pro has scripting which makes life so much easier (batch rendering, or scripts to swap two events, etc etc).

I'm not completely sure if the Studio or Platinum version have parent track movements, etc. If so, then they might be able to do this. Everything here is 100% done in Vegas 6. If this is something you want to do, then you might consider the Pro version. multitrack, compositing & track level movement, etc.

I was a heavy user of Vegas Movie Studio (VMS) and just recently switched to Vegas Pro (VP). You can do amazing things in VMS, but it gets a little confining if you want to use multiple cameras and have layered titles. If you are just shooting with one camera and have simple title, you can do nice layered effects in VMS and will likely be very happy.

If you are doing larger projects and want to organize your work using many tracks (lots of window-in-window; layers of music; layers of titles, multiple camerasl....) you will find VP a good value and very capable.

I think VMS is in a different class than the other home-type editors; much better than the Pinnacle and ULEAD products I used before VMS. I like Vegas even better now that my projects have gotten more complex and I sometimes use 10 - 20 tracks to keep things organized.

I just started using Studio Platinum 8 (trial version) a few days ago. Captured with no problems from Canon HV10. It's fun reading through all the tutorials, learning all the icons,....I'm pretty sure I'm gonna buy the full version once the trial period is over. So far so good. I do have 1 question: If I understand it correctly, when Vegas imports HDV raw footage, it converts the footage to m2t format, right? Is that a Vegas proprietary codec? All the editing is done in m2t?

Thanks,

Actually you have 3 questions. ;-)

No there is no conversion. Vegas is copying the digital file from the tape in your camera to your hard drive unaltered. It is just like copying a file from one hard drive to another. Bit-for-bit it's the same data that's on the tape.

No. The m2t format is an MPEG2 Transport Stream that is created by your camera. Vegas does nothing to it. What ever your camera manufacture encodes is what Vegas sees.

Yes it can be if you have a powerful enough computer to edit the stream. Because MPEG2 uses a long Group of Pictures (GOP) format, each fame is not stored it its entirety. Most are deltas that need to be rebuilt from the other frames. Because if this, viewing one frame involves decoding several others. Like I said, it takes a powerful computer to do this smoothly.

~jr

It seems like .m2t can be edited straight in the timeline on most systems with dual processors somewhere over 2GHz, 2.5 being better. Load up on the RAM, 2GB at least, 4GB better. Also use two hard drives, one for OS and another for the project files. A decent graphics card helps things a bit, but you don't have to go high end. A 8500GTS or 8600GTS or something akin to them is adequate and can be had under $100.

All those can be had on a pretty modest system. A big help is a large screen and/or a dual screen. In VMS you can only have 4 video and 4 audio tracks (which is plenty for a lot of great work) so you can put your preview screen on the bottom. An extra screen is great for putting your media files to the side so you can pick and choose with ease. It can even be a small 17" screen or something, but it will really help. If you go to Vegas Pro you'll probably want to move the preview to the 2nd screen and use the primary purely for tracks. Just realize that if you blow your preview screen up too big it can really slow things down.

Thanks John and Roger,

I think my PC can handle editing in m2t, just built it a couple weeks ago (Q6600 quad core, 8800 GTS, 2 hd 750 GB each, 4GB RAM,....). But, is that the most efficient (best) way to edit? What other choices do I have? Suppose I had a "weaker" PC and can't handle editing in m2t, what would I need to do? I've been recommended to buy Cineform to use along with Vegas? Will that add any benefit to my project, considering I'm a total newbie at this video editing thing?

Evidently you can use "proxy" files to edit, but I've never figured it out or needed to. I'll let the experts chime in on this one.

Oh, that will do quite nicely. ;-)

You could edit with proxies as Roger pointed out. What you would do is render your footage to DV Widescreen and edit with that. When you are done, you replace the proxies with the real media. This can be tedious if you have lots of files. With the Pro version of Vegas you can use a script to automate this process but Movie Studio doesn't support scripts.

Vegas ships with the Cineform codec so I wouldn't be too quick to buy the standalone Cineform product unless you plan to capture directly to Cineform. Cineform is great if you are going to do a lot of post production work because you can move files between applications more easily and not loose any quality when re-rendering to add FX. For example, Boris FX can't open M2T files so you have to render to Cineform to use any of the Boris engines. I find that Ultra 2 works better with Cineform files than M2T files (in fact I could never get it to work with M2T files even though they were supported). But you can just render your M2T files to Cineform within Vegas without having to buy Cineform.

The only reason you would buy Cineform is if you want to capture directly to Cineform AVI's (to save time of rendering later) or if you wanted to use the 24p capability of Cineform. If you have a Sony camera that shoots CineFrame24 (like the Z1/FX1/A1, etc.) Cineform will convert that into true 24p footage. Otherwise you can render to Cineform right from Vegas because you already have the codec.

~jr

Vegas 8b has a chronic problem dropping frames from m2t files coming from my HD110. I'm not the only one expereiencing dropped frames from m2t. The only working solution, I've found, is to use Cineform intermediate before ever importing to Vegas.