A quick Google will reveal that there are problems reported by people trying to use their HDV camcorders with Vista 64. Not just the HV20. To say Vista 64 isn't the cause or that the camcorder isn't the cause dismisses the importance of an interaction (in the statistical sense) between components in the food chain as it were. A PC is not just its OS. It is also the hardware. How the hardware deals with the outside world is not just an issue of hardware. The drivers are important. Perhaps in 99.9% of the cases things work flawlessly. It strikes me that David's problem is either so staggeringly obvious that we have all overlooked it or so esoteric that none of (the half dozen or so of) us can reproduce it. The fact that everything works fine on Vista 32 is very telling. What's the difference between the Vista 32 scenario and the Vista 64 scenario (assuming that the test on the same type (exactly?) of PC with Vista 32 is a valid equivalent to David's own machine). It sure as doody isn't the camcorder nor the physical layer of the FireWire interface. The *only* difference is the OS - specifically the drivers for the FireWire interface and the logical protocols at work (DV, HDV and the transport controls). If one or more of the (Microsoft supplied) drivers is at fault then there are a myriad of potential reasons ranging from incorrect registry information, a bug in the driver that only affects HDV streams coming from a particular FireWire chipset or a bug in the firmware in the FireWire controller.

Does anyone else here have a FireWire interface that uses the JMicron chipset running under Vista 64?

A cheap and obvious thing to try would be to buy a returnable firewire card from the store and try that? Wouldn't that help eliminate the FW issue? Add on cards are not always ideal for capturing, I know, but they can work. In this case if it did it would sure go a long way to isolating the issue.

I agree. I did make that suggestion - David says that he did try a different one but I don't know if it was the same model or not...

I went back and see now he says (in response to you asking) he tried another card, but he never said if his pc fw interface is integrated or not.

I think David is convinced Vista itself is the issue and he seems intent on waiting for a fix from microsoft or canon. As Rick says, that may never come.

I am currently capturing 24P from my HV 20 with Neo Scene with my three year old Acer Apsire XP onto a external hard drive. I then discount the hard drive, and plug it into my New Acer Aspire Vista 64, and then I edit with Vegas 8.1. Which is very fast.

It's all working great. It works so well that the footage I took last week of a Alaska Commercial Fisheries & Wildlife, has been accepted by a Alaska TV Station (North Star Television Network) for future broadcast Statewide.

Vista 64? overall like most new software, I say leave it alone for awhile, and stay with Vista 32. Better safe than sorry.

As so many of us around here who have built our PCs around the 64 bit interface, its good you didn't tell us that before we made our purchases. We might have been scared away.

Luckily I've used 64 bit Vista on a Dell, two DIY PCs, and an HP laptop, so I've been fortunate to have not have these issues.

Since so many of us are using Vista 64 with those same MS-certified drivers I think it prudent to assume that it is not the OS and more likely the hardware and/or its configuration that is at fault. That V64 is not working properly on his configuration is not the blame of the OS. Too many PC manufacturers are selling units and offering V64 with little, if any, testing to assure that it works with a specific configuration. When I bought my HP Media Center PC I was assured that it had been tested with V64 and that all hardware and drivers were certified for use with that OS. So far, I have had no problems with hardware/software incompatibilities. I still maintain that it's not the OS at fault here. More likely is that the OS is unsuitable for the hardware configuration of this particular computer. If it were me, I'd be making Acer take it back instead of accepting a kludgy workaround and hoping for a fix that will probably never come (not from MS, anyway).

That's what I'm sayin'. I don't get it either, Rick.

"I got a new PC but I can't capture with it" doesn't make sense. But it is his money and effort being spent, not mine. I have enough issues when everything is working correctly, let alone wondering what the next issue with my PC will be.

Well, I do think video editing in general does appeal to the masochistic tendencies in some of us. ;)

Apparently.

If anyone's interested, here's a link to a completely unscientific poll on this subject that I started on a forum I moderate.
Capturing with Vista 64 - Canon HV20, HV30 & HV40 User Forum

I am capturing with one computer using XP, and editing with another Vista 64 Vegas 8.1. I'm happy with the current set up. Why does that bother some?

I don't think it does. What is bothersome is your repeated slam of Vista 64, when in fact your problem appears to have little to do with the OS. Glad you found a workaround you can live with, but most of us wouldn't. Not with a new PC, anyway.

David,
Have you tried, while editing your HDV footage with the V64, to apply any audio fx effects? Does it work correctly. I have found it impossible to use the audio fx effetcs in my new V64 with Vegas8.1 using an i7 processer. And others have found the problem to be reproducable. They work fine on the same machine (V64) using Vegas 8.0. Appears to be a bug in 8.1.

Vegas 8.1 will only work with 64 bit codecs or filters. So if you are trying to get it to work with the set of filters that that show in Vegas not all have full 64 bit implementations and will not work. For instance I use Edius for video editing and Vegas for audio. I can produce a Canopus HQ final output file that will work in Vegas 8.0 but will not work in Vegas 8.1 Reason is that there isn't a 64 bit Canopus HQ codec so Vegas 8.1 can't use the file. I believe this issue is true for a lot of filters that are available and show up in the list. It would have been nice if Vegas 8.1 greyed out the ones that do no work in 64 bit environment. Personally I just use Vegas 8.0c now!!!!


Ron Evansd

Good Evening,


I have to concur with Ron and Terry here.

I do not believe 8.1 is ready for a real drive!!

I do not think that DVD ARc 5.0a is ready yet either!!!


Sense I went back to 8,0c and DVD ARC 5.0 version 170, all seems semi normal in my daily universe!!!


Perhaps it is these new I7's compounded with vista 64, but I think not!!! Why would everything else work properly?


I will say this, 8.1 will render faster. If you have a real big project (I finished up a 2.5 hour wedding on 8.1) it might be worth opening up 8,1 uploading, renaming it and then rendering it.

However, I just put the wraps on an 1hr 15 minute HD program edited in cineform codec, heavily color corrected, time stretched, stabilized, and noise reduced with some other FX as well. The render time on this and burning a blu ray off the time line ( it was about 19 gigs) took about 2.5 to 3 hours on 8.0c.. I am not sure if that's fast or not, but it did the job just fine and the product was superlative.

I am not so sure there is any real advantage to 8.1 at this point, though I have it on my secondary computer.

I give up. Vista 64 has capture problems, and 8.1 doesn't work properly. I removed Vista 64, and installed Vista 32. Now I have no more capture problems, and Vegas 8.0c hums along.

Vista 64 went into the round file where it belongs.

I thought you gave up a little while back. The problem isn't Vista 64 its your computer as lots of us have been telling you for a while. I have a Q9450, 8G RAM, running Vista 64 and have no problems running Edius 5, Vegas 8.0 and 8.1, Premiere CS3, Sound Forge, TMPGenc Xpress 4, TMpgenc Authorworks, DVDLab Pro2, DVD Architect 5, Cineform Neo Scene, and many other programs. The real beauty of Vista 64 is that when running 32bit apps they all have their full allotment of RAM so several can run simultaneously. I have been really pleased with running Vista 64 and certainly have had no problems whatsoever with the OS.
Have I had problems. Yes. Cineform Neo Scene and DVD Architect 5.0a do not like each other!!! Reverting to DVD Architect 5.0 solved this problem.

Ron Evans

Hmm... Just my 2 penneth...

I didn't see your reply to the question someone asked about whether your V64 installation was fully patched (ie. SP1 etc.) as it could potentially solve issues such as this.

Like most others here, I very quickly reverted back to V8.0c. However, that isn't really the issue here.

I'm no M$ fan to be perfectly honest and avoided Vista for as long as humanly possible. I'm still no great fan (in IMHO W2K was their best OS) but even I have to admit that since I (eventually managed to - but that's another story entirely) update it to SP1 it solved several issues I had on my 64bit AMD/ASUS V64 system and is now working fine. The only hardware issue remaining is that my Hauppauge PVR150 isn't supported in V64.

However, having now used it for some time (mainly for running Vegas) I have warmed to it somewhat (which, for someone who LOVES Linux, is some achievement).

Still, that is beside the point. The reason I mention Hauppauge PVR150 here is that it displays the same type of issue you are having with your setup. V64 sees my PVR150 and correctly reports it - and even tries to tune it to the stations. However, it doesn't quite succeed - because the hardware drivers are not optimised for V64 (although it will work fine in V32). This leads me to believe that what several people have put forward as the possible issue could in fact be the case.

i.e. That the capture card hardware installed in your system is not fully optimised for 64 bit operation and that that is causing a problem with the HDV stream not being correctly handed off to the system. The fact that so few people are having any issues with V64 in this respect and the the card apparently works fine in V32 would seem to bear this out.

I wracked my brains for ages when trying to figure out what the problem was with my PVR150 - until I eventually went direct to Hauppauge and they explained to me that's what the problem was - the hardware was not optimised for 64bit and would therefore not work properly in ANY 64bit OS. [edit] I forgot to mention here that I think they meant any WINDOWS 64bit OS, as it works perfectly in Linux 64bit, but using 32bit drivers.[/edit]

It may be worthwhile looking at the manufactrurer of your capture card for a solution input on the situation, as it may simply be the same thing and someone has cocked up by incorporating a non-64bit card into a system which has had V64 installed (assuming that the V64 was what the system actually came installed with in the first place).

[edit 2]I ought to mention here that even HP managed to do this on at least one of their desktop models with the builtin webcam![/edit 2]

Ot: Acer
 

Just an aside to something someone said about Acer products being crap. That's utter rubbish! They manufacture a whole spectrum of products at all price-points and obviously a cheaper model is going to have some compromises - regardless of the manufacter or OEM. It may come as a surprise to some that the Acer factories in Taiwan have been supplying components to other OEMs for decades.

I personally have an Acer Travelmate that I have had since 2001 and has been so well used on a daily basis (running a business) that the letters have worn off the keys. I still would use it except that the CPU fan has given up the ghost after god knows how many 1000s hours of use in a dusty atmosphere and several cleans over the years (you should have seen the crap I hooked out of the cooling fins!)

Anyway, I now run an HP laptop (it was the only one I could lay my hands on in a hurry that had all the I/O features I require at a reasonable price) but, given the option, I would have preferred another Acer and may still get one later on at some point (would have to get it in Thailand for the Thai keyboard) but, in the meantime I'm reasonably happy with the HP (apart from having to use an external keyboard when I need to use Thai language). Being based in Jersey, I couldn't just jump on a plane to get a new laptop in Thailand when the Acer fan gave out so I had to make do with what was readily available.

I purchased an used HV30 yesterday and just captured perfectly with it. Absolutely flawless. I love this camera. And I do like the speed of Vista 64 bit.

Davids experience is typical of many people with vista 64 bit. It has been pointed out many times on this forum that most Vista issues are hardware related. This case is no different.

You get what you pay for. There has been case after case in this forum of people experiencing issues with their new inexpensive PCs. With the exception of David, all of them understood the issues were hardware related and dealt with them accordingly.

As Rick pointed out and as I asserted before, when you're dealing with budget hardware it is not unusual that you may have issues. You pay your money and you take your chances.

Yes David you can get in your digs at Vista 64, put in the last word about having put it in the trash where it belongs, and that is your perogative. But those of us who know also understand you are placing the blame where it doesn't belong and misinforming others at the same time.

8.1 is not ready for prime time for many people, that is well documented. It is the first version of Vegas 64 bit, and it has tons of issues for many people, none for others. It also was issued free of charge to all Vegas 8 users.

I am sure Dale it has nothing to do with i7, it is just a beta release. That is why it was free, I believe.

I have owned seven pc's in my life. Gateway, HP's, Dell's, and Acers. I have found the Acers to be the most dependable over time. The HP's went first.They hardly survived past warranty. Followed by a Gateway. The Dells did a little better. I have found that the Acers are the most dependable, and best of all, when you buy one, they are not bloated with "buy now services" or cheap software offers. Before you make a quick judgment, I suggest that you compare all four computers in a hard working environment.

Vista 64 is the only OS that has interfered with my camcorders video capture. Also, I just found out that a neighbor down the street had to reboot his Vista 64 back down to Vista 32 also, due to the fact Vista 64 would not allow his music hardware/software to work properly(he's a musician). He said it best. "If Vista is so great, then why is Microsoft releasing Windows 7?

Here's a sample of some fast paced footage I recorded the other day:
YouTube - 2009 Sitka Sound Herring Sac Roe Fishery in HD 1080p

My comments were purely on the fact that correct Vista 64 drivers have to be present for the OS to work properly in all circumstances. A great many pieces of hardware do not have the correct drivers and though may work in some circumstances but fail in others. Frankly that is why I construct my own PC's as I like making my own choices for hardware and thus of course have no addition software on the machine at all and a BOIS that comes from the board manufacturer not the PC manufacturer. It also means I can optimize the machine for my purposes. I too have PC's running XP as well as Win2k. Vista 64 is faster and more stable than any of the others. Until recently my main editor Edius was not sanctioned to run on Vista, it did on my PC but I know on others it did not. The latest version V5 does but not all the Canopus Grass Valley hardware has Vista 64 drivers!! Vista 64 also needs to be tailored to your needs too. I have turned off all the fancy graphics etc to the point that it looks much like XP Classic windows. It is well worth finding out how to do this whether you are using Vista 64 or Vista 32.
For the widest compatibility with older hardware XP may be a better choice as it is more likely to have available drivers for almost anything that can be plugged into a PC!!!! There are very few true 64 bit apps so the main reason to use Vista 64 is memory allocations and multitasking of 32bit programs. To take advantage of this then use 8G RAM or more with multi hard discs too. Future proofing is only valid for people who keep their computers a long time!!!!

Ron Evans

All valid points. However, all brands of FireWire interface have to meet the OHCI specification (that has to be verified by MS) and use the same MS drivers. (Well, no doubt there are some odd-ball interfaces with proprietary drivers such as the old Radius one).

Aaaah - finally a DV Info thread on this bug/problem.

David, you're not the only one! And it is not (strictly) related to either the camera or your computer I can assure you.
Never in my life I had any problems capturing HDV on any version of Windows. Until just recently when I had to transfer 3 hours of HDV 25p material from a Canon XL H1 (it was rented and had to be returned the other day) ... and all I had available was a IBM Thinkpad 61p (I used it's internal firewire connection) notebook with Vista 64bit on it. And I had exactly the same problem as you!

I tried everything I could imagine - no capture application could capture HDV, only downscaled DV could be captured. (I tried Premiere, Vegas, HDVSplit, Movie Maker etc.pp.)

As time was running out I hurried home where I tried to capture the footage on my main workstation (custom built silent PC with an Asus P5Q Pro motherboard - I used the onboard firewire!) where I head several more OS' to choose from... I first tried to capture under Windows 7 Beta 64bit - exactly the same problem! Only DV worked, not HDV... I was nearly pulling my hair out and thought the camera had a faulty firewire connection or something, as I never ever experienced such a strange (hardware) problem with Vista 64bit or Win7 64bit (perhaps I was just lucky? especially Win7 64bit works like a charm from day 1 on).
Since I didn't want to spend the whole night with this problem I was desperately trying everything... until I booted into my old WinXP Pro (32bit) .. where it was absolutely no problem capturing all the HDV tapes from the Canon XL H1 without any dropped frame!!!

So yes - this problem/bug is real! I only ever encountered it with the 64bit OSes so that seems to be one factor. But as there are obviously a number of people out there where everything works fine even on Vista/Win7 64bit it must be a combination of several factors.
Perhaps it's only with some cams when connected to some firewire chips/ports/card? There definately seems to be a bug or perhaps missing driver/feature or whatever that's causing this...
I don't think that the ASUS P5Q Pro board in my workstation uses the same fw chip(set) as my Thinkpad does... but I will have a closer look.

I nearly forgot about this problem, this happened ~2 months ago and since half a year I mostly work with the RED One.. only that day for that job I resorted back to the XL H1.

Cheers
-Sören

My normal routine is to get Vegas to capture both DV and HDV as I like the way I have control. However Edius is my main editor and with all this discussion I thought I would try some of the others to capture some HDV. All will capture but with some differences. Vegas 8.0c will capture DV and HDV with preview and audio, Vegas 8.1 will capture DV and HDV but HDV has no video preview but audio is heard, CS3 will capture DV and HDV and Edius will capture DV and HDV but the camera has to be off when program is loaded and only switched on when capture screen is enabled and no audio or video preview just progress data. At first I couldn't get Edius to capture . The capture utility ran but nothing was captured. Then I switched camera off, reloaded capture utility and then switched camera on and everything worked. I have had this sort of issue in the past where the order of loading is important but the last time was many years ago so had forgotten about trying or suggesting this before. All create normal files that show in all the NLE's.
Although I have Vegas 8.1 I do not use it as my main use of Vegas is for audio after editing in Edius from which I produce a Canopus HQ file which Vegas 8.0c will use but Vegas 8.1 will not since there is no 64bit HQ codec.
I use a very striped down Vista 64, it looks and behaves much like XP Classic, so there may be something in what features in Vista are active or not.

Ron Evans

I am very suspicious of the Vista 64 Media Center and how it relates to HD Media. Before I changed back to Vista 32, I tried to remove or shut down the Vista 64 Media Center, but it seems to control a lot of what goes on in Vista 64, and it's well entrenched. Even though I would never use it, I could not remove or shut it down.

I'll just stay with Vista 32 for now, and let the pro's and experts figure it out.

I self-built my PC. I have a QX9650, 8gig Ram, and Vista 64, and I can't capture HDV with anything but HDVSplit. If you have some kind of alternative FireWire drivers, can you identify them? Are you plugging into the FireWire slots on your mother board or do you have a standalone capture card?

Vista's autorun will not pop up if my XHA1 is reading "HDV" on its readout. Even if I'm trying to capture regular DV, I have to play the tape for a couple seconds so the readout changes to DV16:9 THEN turn the camera off, connect the firewire, then turn it back on. Only then will the autorun pop up for the camera.

I guess I feel lucky that there's HDVSplit, but it's pretty annoying to me that M$ and/or Sony haven't been able to get their minds around this for the last few years.

Jeremiah, if you haven't already try make sure no other firewire devices are connected while attempting to capture, particularly FW preview devices such as the Canopus.

I've used both cards and integrated FW controlller, but I hear the integrated are more reliable for capturing.

If HDV split can read your camera, great. However if Vista is not seeing the camera, then Vegas is not at fault. It cannot be expected to read or see a camera if Windows is not seeing it.

While these problems are real and painful for those that experience them, I still don't understand them. I have captured with four different models of camcorders on several different configurations of Vista 64 bit and never had a capture issue except for a very brief issue with PP, and it turned out the issue was my Canopus card; it needed to be disconnected for Vista to see the camera. This is a common issue/fix that was told to me long ago and I had forgotten about it.

It is super important if you have capture issues to make sure all FW devices are disconnected during the process of getting camera to be seen.

My Vista 64 system has no add-in cards other than the video card. IEEE1394 is off the motherboard. I have no external 1394 drives. All external drives are either USB2 or eSATA. When capturing no external drives are connected, the camera is the only external device connected to the motherboard and there is no other activity on the PC. I do not have any virus protection or firewall on this PC.

Ron Evans

I too use a lean running Vista 64 bit. I have power settings set to not only high performance mode but I customize the power settings for HDs, multimedia, and everything else to never turn off.

Indexing is off, remote connections off, hibernation is disabled, system restore is off, I could go on.

When I first used Vista I didn't know about those settings and it caused me some issues, specifically the HDs shutting down every 20 minutes, which drove me crazy not knowing what was going on.

Well, you guys are going to hate me after this post. Reading your comments, I must have some kind of super-anamoly PC. I have an HP Media Center PC running Vista 64. It has an Asus mobo, Core 2 Quad processor, 6gb of RAM, an ATi 4670 with dual DVI out and dual LCD monitors, a Hauppauge digital TV tuner card, a ViXS analog/ATSC tuner card, Vegas Pro 8, Cyberlink's PowerDirector 7, and I use the onboard Firewire connector. I have modded the case to fit 3 SATA drives, I have a USB external drive, an internal LG BD burner, analog and digital coax inputs for HD and SD TV signals and zero problems with any of it. I can capture analog and digital inputs with PowerDirector, I can capture my HV20 in both 32- and 64-bit Vegas versions, scan with my Canon 4600, output 5.1 audio with the onboard Realtek chipset, make phone calls with my MagicJack, use the HP as a printer sharer, record TV programs with Media Center and then stream them wirelessly to my Linksys extender hooked up to my 46" Toshiba LCD in the living room, play an occasional game, surf the internet, digitize my vinyl records with my Technics turntable connected to the Aux in on the PC, and I almost never turn it off or reboot it. According to David, I must be a fluke. :)