Premiere pro user, looking for reason to consider Vegas?
 

Hello

i am currently using premiere pro quite happily, i am unhappy with my editing hardware card...canopus raptor rt2

someone suggested i try vegas, can someone give me 10 reasons why they think vegas is a better solution than premeire pro?

my computer is total overkill so i thought that might be a plus towards using a software based system vs. a hardware card like canopus or matrox rtx-100

i am using a dual xeon 3.04 with 3 gig of ram and a raid5 with (4) 250 gig sata drives.

i am looking for fast reliable render times of fairly basic projects...i am currently editing a 20+ hour footage documentary down to 1-1.5 hours and i'll be doing a few more of the same.

not looking to do a lot of flashy effects.

my camera is a panasonic dvx-100a and true 24p would be nice!

matthew

If fast render times are that important to you, forget Vegas. And it doesn't support hardware rendering, either. Other than that, there is no comparison to Premiere- and I've been using Premiere for years. Vegas does so much more...so much easier. Download the demo and give it a whirl...you'll be hooked. As far as rendering- the new 64 bit cpu's will definitely help in this department

One other thing. I'm not sure whether PPro is acutally using it
to its advantage, but I don't think dual CPU will be of much use
with Vegas, unless you want to edit in another instance while
you are rendering in another.

Try out the demo is very good advice. There is an excellent quick
reference PDF in this thread to get you started. I think the
basic appeal for Vegas is it's simplicity and how it works. That
either works for you or doesn't (a bit like Premiere either works
or doesn't).

The audio tools in Vegas are way better then Premiere's. Color
correction is there as well, but I saw that PPro has this as well
(don't know how good).

I think Vegas is also using a better DV codec than PPro does.

Just try out the demo @ http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com

well i downloaded the demo and nowhere do they give you the demo serial number...

i downloaded it again to make sure i didn't miss something, they don't show it on the screen after you register and they don't email it to you.

what am i missing??

matthew

The serial number is for when you've bought the thing. The demo - if I remember correctly - you can just go on using. Won't it open?

no. if it would just open i would have been playing with it for two days now! :)

it asks for the serial number.

i clearly downloaded it from the link that said demo...

matthew

The demo was always the full program without the serial number. But my memory is from the Sonic Foundry days. I have not heard that Sony has changed that practise, though. Let's see if anyone else has info on this matter ...

When you start the demo, it will give you two options - one is "Run in demo mode" and the other is to enter the serial number. Just click on the other option. The main limitations of the demo are: Can't Save, 2 minute limit on preview, no MPEG or AC3.

Matthew, just FYI... I've cut on eveything from an old Moviola, to the old Lightworks system, to high end Avids and Final Cut Pro, and apart from actual 35mm (which in my book, while it's defintely dead, is the ultimate cool) nothing has been as much fun to cut with as Vegas. It makes me crazy at times as it does a lot of things very differently from what I'm used to (the fact that it wasn't designed around and by film demands is obvious). And it doesn't do some things I wish it did that I'm hoping for in the next version, but overall I am absolutely astonished at what Vegas is able to pull off, and how easily I can do most things. Cutting with it is a dream. On top of that, I've yet to have any of the glitchy software/hardware issues that were a constant irritation in even high end editing bays. And my home setup is far less impressive than yours. So, I'm sold on Vegas, very happily so.

I'm not sure I can give you a "top ten" but I can list a few things.

1) Render time: If you are NOT doing a lot of flashy effects, Vegas will render reasonably fast. If you put a "bug" in the corner of the video, then every frame will need rendering which will slow down the process. For all unchanged segments, the original file will simply be copied. I have a 1 hour weekly program that simply gets a few titles added and will render in 50 minutes on a PIII 750MHz. On my 2.8GHz laptop, that can be reduced to around 15 minutes.

2) Scripting: No other NLE has it (of which I am aware) and it helps simplify the editing process tremendously. Many repetitive tasks can be reduced to a simple mouse click or keypress.

3) Powerful Compositing tools.
4) Great Codec
5) Very logical to use - once you "get it", it all makes sense. Every track is indentical (something Premiere Pro has changed to). Transitions are made by simply overlapping clips. Don't need to change between a bunch of different "tools".
6) Flexibility in adding effects (clip level, track level, media level, project level)
7) 24p native. HD can also be edited (but not captured or printed)
8) Terrific forums with TONS of answers available.

ok, i'm gonna say it one more time :)

i downloaded what was labeled as the demo/trial from sony, it absolutely asks for a serial number, there is no option to just say "demo" and have it run.

it sounds great and i'm anxious to play with it but without the ability to enter something to get past the serial number prompt i'm outta luck.

matthew

The very first screen that pops up when you run the program has two radio buttons and a text box. The text box is where you enter the serial number AFTER you have purchased it. The radio button just above the text box says something to the effect of "enter serial number". The second radio button is above that and says something to the effect of "run in demo mode".

Using either of these links should get you there.

http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.co...p2.asp?DID=435

http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.co...p2.asp?DID=447

i'll have to download it again because the version i have definitely doesn't have that step.

i've downloaded it 3 times now, but i'll try the link you gave, that might be a different link. the one i have been using clearly says it is to download a demo/trial version.

matthew

Then try the 447 link which is the "download update" link. The 435 link is the "download demo" link. Technically, they should both be the same.

thank you!

i finally got an installer that does ask me if i want a demo!

it looks great so far!

i am impressed, especially with a few features i have already found that i wish premiere had, the timecode feature especially, for editing purposes i have been really wanting the ability to drop in a timecode on the bottom of the footage so i can burn a dvd-rw and screen my project and take notes of small things i want to change when i see it on a big screen.

it was very intuitive and i have already done a bunch with it in the just first 15 minutes.

i am playing with it on a fairly moderate laptop and it seems plenty fast.

can't wait to get back home next week and try it out on my big system.

also anxious to play with 24p and 24pa footage from my dvx-100a

matthew

Feel free to come back and ask questions. Also, take a quick look at my Newsletters specifically at the "Beginner's Corner" columns. They may help some of your early questions.

9) Pan/Crop tool is quite powerfull and easy to use for animated stills a la Ken Burns.

10) Not sure if Premiere matches this now but...*every* effect is key framable

11) Not only are the audio editing tools more powerfull but it integrates flawlessly with Sound Forge...a much superior audio editor than Audition.

12) Completly format agnostic. Premiere still gives you the "red" bar when you import content other than DV AVI.

13) Less expensive but just as (if not more) robust

14) Works better on older/slower systems. Overally more responsive. Loads faster- can have multible instances run simultaneously.

Thanks for continuing the list, Glen. Anyone else?

*wait I'm still thinking* lol

15) The preview window output is adjustable. Can lower settings to yield better frame-rate on highly processed footage.

Quick off-topic question, would you Vegas guys consider the program comparable to FCP4? Don't want to start a platform flame war... forgetting the OS thing... would you say they have similar capabilities?

Many have touted Vegas as "FCP for the PC". I think FCP has better media management and more flexability on output formats- apart from that they are on par with the edge going to Vegas for it's audio prowress.

Yes, they are very comparible to each other. FCP will do a few things better and Vegas will do a few things better.

Ignacio, as someone who left FCP 4 (and like you, I have no desire to start a flame war here), I can only repeat that I am thrilled with Vegas and have no regrets that I made the switch. Yes, FCP has better media management tools as has been said many times. But there are work-a-rounds in Vegas. For ex., instead of color coding bins I moved the comments section before the clip name in the media pool and put an "X" when I've finished with a clip , as well as other indications that aid my need for speed. (Did that on old Avids anyway, before they could do some of these things.) Not having a precise match frame function in Vegas is a major error in judgement on the part of the designers IMO (hoping to see that in 5.0), but then again, the list of things that bug me are largely owing to a film background (and starting as a assistant film editor) which has its own methods/demands in the editing room that aren't as critical for the way a great many video editors seem to work. I doubt they miss a lot of the things that I long for.

On the plus side, from a pure cutting perspective, even with the things I haven't found Vegas able to do, I can work like lightening within its environment. It's both easy to use and fast to cut, which makes it a real kick to work with. I'm genuinely having a lot of fun again. I'd lost that for awhile. And while you said "forgetting the OS thing," one of my biggest gripes with FCP was really with Apple. Vegas can run flawlessly without the need for the latest and greatest cutting edge equipment. OTOH, within a year of purchasing a custom tweaked Powerbook to cut on location, changes in FCP put my system at the bottom of what was suggested to run the latest release and I began having serious problems, everything from underrun issues to a whole host of troubles. And I wasn't alone. A post house I've worked at that only uses FCP now builds the cost of a new computer system into every bid as a result. But I don't have the bucks to keep up with that game, and I don't have the patience to deal with the tech headaches that not staying on top of the tech changes/demands that each new release of FCP brings.

All in all, Vegas has some room for improvement, but I'm never going back to FCP. I have fewer headaches and more moments when I'm smiling and chuckling. Works for me. :-)

Interesting post Marcia - thanks.

Could you please elaborate on "Not having a precise match frame function in Vegas" - maybe descibe what you were previously able to do.

Thanks.

Peter

I'm agreeing with Peter. I'm not quite sure I understand exactly what you are referring to, Marcia.

IMO, Premiere Pro is Final Cut Pro for the PC. After having used FCP3, Vegas made no sense to me and Premiere Pro seemed a lot like a FCP clone. That's my 2 cents.

Glenn, you are correct. Premiere and FCP ARE closer to each other. In fact, I think some of the same programmers may have worked on both of them. Vegas takes a different approach because of coming from an audio background.

Peter, Edward,
Sitting down this morning to write out exactly what I meant in answer to your question, with FCP open next to Vegas, I realized I CAN match frame as precisely in Vegas. FCP/Avid call it "match frame," meaning in FCP I hit "F" and in Avid I click an icon, and it opens that exact frame up in the Browser (FCP/Source monitor (Avid). In Vegas I just right click and hit "open in Trimmer." I'd hit "find in media pool" right below that and totally not played with/noticed that "open in trimmer" was indeed the exact frame. I'd looked up "match frame" and couldn't find it anywhere in the dumb manual, and presumed, and moved on. The name game of all this still throws me.

Since we're on can/can't stuff, and there's obviously a great many things I haven't discovered yet (have only had the full version of Vegas about two weeks).

* Is there a way to audio scrub more precisely that slow/med/fast? There must be. I can frame by frame in other programs so that I hear each sound and can excise from it's onset. I hold down the "K" key, and hit "J" or "L". But when I do that in Vegas it starts slow and immediately speeds up. How to I make it hold the frame by frame speed?

* Is there any kind of short cut tools menu I can have floating or visible? In Avid, for example, it was always called the "hamburger menu" and you could have it open or access it from the windows or timeline.

* How do you type in a precise TC and have it take you there? There must be some trick I'm not doing right, as what (and where) I type in and what I get in response don't match. Avid's don't even require that you add the colons or semi-colon, which is nice. You just type the plus sign and the number and it takes you wherever. For ex., if I want to go from point "A" to point "B," with "B" being precisely 15 sec. later so I can render out what will become moving buttons/footage for DVDA, where and how exactly do I tell it to take me to that 15 seconds later point?

Other things will occur to me, but I have to get moving. Man, I so appreciate these boards and the ability to find the answers you need!

Marcia, check out the shortcut keys thread stickied in this forum. It has a lot of the really useful shortcuts that you probably wouldn't find yourself.

audio scrub: Hold crtl and mouse over your playhead. It should turn into a different symbol. Click and drag left/right to change scrub speed.

precise TC: double click the timecode fields in the bottom right.

But how do you get it to move one frame, and only one frame? In other words, in FCP I can hold the K down with one finger and tap the L or J which moves it one single solitary frame (in whichever direction) with each successive tap. I can only get Vegas to slow down doing what you say, not move one frame and stop until told to go on with another tap/command. Also, I played around with TC some more and realized what I was trying to do (I had already been using the TC fields in the bottom right) wasn't working owing to the ruler settings. Changed it to seconds and it worked great.

Will go do a search for that shortcut keys thread as you suggest...

If you have a scroll wheel mouse, you can scroll it to zoom in quickly and this gets you where arrow keys move one frame. You can look at the time code in the bottom right to see if you are far enough in so the arrow keys are jumping one frame. I no longer use the keyboard for this, since I got the Shuttle Pro. Each indent is one frame at any zoom level.

Looking at the Shuttle Pro settings, F3 goes back by one frame and F9 goes forward by one frame. If you are just single stepping, this isn't too akward. If you are going back and forth, this will be more akward. If I am working on my laptop without the Shuttle Pro, I still use the wheel mouse.

If you do any amount of editing, you won't regret picking up a Shuttle Pro. It will work with whatever software program you decide on. :)

Sorry, I'm doing a lousy job of expressing myself clearly. I was speaking of audio scrubbing one frame at a time. I want to scrub/hear each single solitary frame, slowly, at my command. I can get the cursor to move one frame at a time fine, but I don't hear anything when I do it the way you guys suggest. (sigh) I want to pick up each frame's audio to delete the couple of mic crackles I'm hearing from when I stupidly adjusted the camera at the worst possible moment. But JKL, set to slow, zips it too fast, as does control with the mouse. Will keep trying. Maybe a beer would help. ;-)

P.S. I keep meaning to order the Shuttle Pro and haven't gotten around to it. Will go do it right now.

As mentioned, you can hold down CTRL while dragging the cursor. To get exactly one frame at a time, zoom in on the timeline.

Why do you need a "hamburger menu"? I'm not sure WHAT you would need on it! Everything is already readily accessible - most is either on the toolbar or with a right-click.

As Glenn mentioned, you can double-click on the timecodes in the lower right-hand corner of the timeline. Type in the exact timecode you want and you will be taken directly there. Take a look at issue #8 of my newsletter

Well, hopefully the Shuttle Pro will let me configure it to move one frame and freeze w/o having to hit the space bar to freeze it there myself manually, cuz I can't stop it from advancing to the next frame to save my life. It has to be told to stop, and I want it to stop itself, like other programs. But thanks though.

Does vegas have an anti flicker filter like PPro? This will be very important to me as I'll be using Jpeg stills and anticipate combating flicker.
Also, I've read in a Vegas forum somewhere that Vegas doesn't encode WM9 as well as PPro, which is important because I plan on outputting Hi Def from my stills.
Thanks

Yes it does. Search for "Reduce Interlace Flicker" (it's on the right-click menu when you right-click a picture)

Vegas does a fine job at encoding WMV9 but I've never done any comparisons.

<<<-- Originally posted by Marcia Janine Galles : Well, hopefully the Shuttle Pro will let me configure it to move one frame and freeze w/o having to hit the space bar to freeze it there myself manually, cuz I can't stop it from advancing to the next frame to save my life. It has to be told to stop, and I want it to stop itself, like other programs. But thanks though. -->>>

[ALT-LEFT/RIGHT ARROW] will advance one frame in either direction.

Or... set the Time Region to one frame, press the "loop" button at the bottom of the timeline to on, and press the space bar. Vegas will cycle the one frame (or however long the time selection is) repeatedly until you tell it to stop.

<<<-- Originally posted by Brian Standing : [ALT-LEFT/RIGHT ARROW] will advance one frame in either direction. -->>>

But it will NOT do so with audio.