Audio & Video Misaligned - Why?
 

I'm using Vegas Pro 8.0c, copying part of a clip (video and audio) in "trimmer" and pasting into a video/audio track.

After doing this with several parts, editing by adding crossfades, transitions I play it back and the audio is not lining up with the video.

When I slid them around they moved together. Why/how did they become miasaligned?

Hmm... just tested it again by copying a piece out of trimmer and dumped into a track. It plays back misaligned. Why is this happening?

When I play it in the "Trimmer" window the audio and video line up just fine.

Do the audio and and video events turn red? If they do it means they have probably been ungrouped.

If the events do not turn red then it means they have not been mis-aligned. I've heard of people having problems of audio drifting with long clips of certian file types or when using they have recorded audio seperately with a double system, but In both these cases I would expect the trimmer to also play back mis-aligned.

Perhaps do a quick edit of a few of the problem clips then render them out. That might tell you if the problem is simply the audio lagging in Vegas playback for some reason or if somewhere in the process something is actually being modified.

Do you have Quantize to Frames enabled?

I'll reply to both posts here:\

Nope, they're not red.

Rendered and still plays back misaligned.

I don't know. I tried toggling it but there is no indicator to show if it's on or not. Any advice?

What kind of clips are they? Mpeg, avi, etc...did you try bringing the clips in without using the trimmer?

Ignore the Quantize to Frames question as I'm sure it's not relevant to your problem.
Not being a Trimmer user though, I'm wondering why you're using it.
I usually just drop a bunch of clips on the timeline and start cutting them up before I start any fancy work on them.

That's what I'm sayin' Mike. It sure seems a lot faster to me that way. I never understood the need for the trimmer, but I know there are better editors than me that use it. Not knocking it, I just don't get it.

Heres my guess. He is using a file that has 30p frame rate, on a 29.97 time line, and sound is being read at 29.97, while video is being timed at 30. I saw this on 5D stuff, coming out of Cineform's NeoScene initially. That changed with fix in NeoScene that retimed everything to 29.97.

OP has to give us more information on what he has set thing up at, and what he has used to capture, etc, etc. etc. Not enough information here to actually try to help him.

Sync Offset?
 

I've has this problem before when my preview device is set up a certain way. In trimmer everything is aligned but when I drop it onto the time line and preview to my HD monitor the sync is off. I fix it by going into Preferences and under the Preview Device tab there is a "Sync Offset" slider. I usally drag it up to about 8 or 9 and then my preview sync is fine.

Just a thought.

Let me try to provide some more info so you guy's can help me better.

I filmed with my Canon HV20 set at HDV (PF24).
I captured with NeoScene in order to remove pull down.
NeoScene was set to "Automatically convert to Cineform Intermediate (*.avi) and to "Convert to 24p (NTSC only).
Project properties in Vegas were set to "Match Media" at the start of the project.
The de-interlacing option was set to “interpolate”, and the Quality option set to “Best”.

After editing all clips in the timeline were selected, right click, Switches, Disable Resample.

I rendered to clip like this:
http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/images/sonyavc.png

Hope I can resolve this. I can't complete about 10 projects as a result.

Tried not using the trimmer yet?

Someone tell me, where is the match media setting in project properties, I've not seen it before and can't seem to find it.

File - Properties.
Click on the Match Media Settings icon (top right, looks like a folder).
Browse to the folder containing the source footage, click on any of them and then click Open.
The video settings in your Project Properties window will now match your source footage.
This can be saved as a preset if desired.
Note: this doesn't match source audio as that has to done separately.

Thanks Mike, handy feature. I've been using "Aspect Ratio" script, same thing?

I did try dragging the avi file onto the timeline and it had the same sync issues.

Man this is frustrating!

Even if the source audio was recorded on the camera at the same time?

I'm 99% certain the source and project audio are the same sample rate (48k)

Not reallly Jeff.
Here's a post explaining this that I grabbed some time ago.
I can't remember who the poster was or I'd give credit.


The Project Properties drive the preview.
For example, you keep Project Properties at DV and then add all HDV on the timeline.
As you play your project, Vegas scales the HDV to DV for preview -- result: your computer works harder and you probably can't sustain full frame rate.
So you should always set the Project Properties to match the majority of the clips on your timeline for the best playback performance.
It also makes sense to set with the output in mind, too (e.g. widescreen vs. 4:3).
Also note that all generated media, titles and such, are scaled to match the project properties, too so keep your resolutions and aspect ratio in mind for that, too.
When it comes to the render, you can indeed override the Project Properties and render to anything.
Vegas does its conversions during the render.

Some camcorders default to 12-bit mode and some record in 5.1 sound so it's always best to double-check.

Odds are that they were but it never hurts to confirm it.

Some ideas:

12-bit audio mode = 32KHz sample rate. Although what Mike wrote a couple posts up about what project settings are used for is correct and by the book, I suspect Audio Sample Rate is a bit of a blind spot, that Vegas depends on project settings to understand Rate, both for preview and render.

I've had to rerender audio when mixed sample rates are in use on one project. Hey, there's another possibility. Are you dead sure that all clips *are* the same sample rate?

In any case, Vegas should show you audio sample rate of a clip when you click on it in explorer - look down in the status area below the explorer window.

All this *seems* to be more of a problem on non-pro sound cards. Couldn't swear to this one, but onboard audio cards & soundblaster and such don't much like sample rate confusion, and may resample on the fly. Maybe.

*****
Wrong version of Cineform codec is in use by Vegas. This was once a common problem, but you don't hear about it much with current versions of V and C. You can confirm what Vegas is using: File | Render As | Video for Windows (*.AVI), select one of the HD digital intermediate templates, eg. HDV 1080-60i intermediate.

Select "Custom" and look at the video tab. Cineform (of some version) should be selected in the Video format field. The version displayed there should be what came with NeoScene, 5.0.6 is current, I think. The version that comes with Vegas is 2.5 or 2.8. If Vegas is seeing one of these older codecs, that could easily account for the problem.

The solution would be to update. If still problems with Vegas version, search or post over on the Cineform forum, or review docs at Cineform support, or send in a trouble ticket to Cineform.

****edit**** The solution would be to update Neoscene and see if that updates the codec available to Vegas****

It used to be that one had to find Vegas' version of cfhd.dll and rename to .old or something, but I thought that was fixed in later releases.

*****
Finally, I hate to say it and you hate to read it, but you've got a fairly complex acquisition and conversion to digital intermediate there. If there are no other solutions, the next step in troubleshooting would be to start simplifying acquisition and conversion, step by step, checking along the way, to see if you can identify a step/setting that mucks up sync.

*****

Unrelated issue - if you've gone through all that intermediate work to make your intermediate true 24p, Vegas project properties should be set to Deinterlace: None.

Unrelated issue - I also do about 85% of my cutting on the timeline. I find the trimmer invaluable when adding B-roll to an already-cut interview, and when cutting dramatic scenes that were shot cine-style, that is, multiple takes of the same action/dialog from different camera positions. Here is where you can easily use markers in the source media, and use Vegas' ersatz dual-monitor mode, which can really speed things up.

Lots of great info. Let me digest and work through it and I'll report my findings.

Thank you very much!

It's just one big clip. Sample rate is 48.

Both V & C are at version 5.1.4

I guess maybe I need to contact Cineform? Seems the ausio is getting screwed up upon capture maybe.

I've tried creating new projects and checking the settings, rendering, bringing directly to timeline, updated Cineform and captured using lastest, still sync issues.

What to do!!!???? I am stuck!!

As I look at this more, it appears that perhaps the video and audio may not be out of sync but that the persons mouth moving in the video has some "missing fragments" (for lack of a better word) that make it appear to be out of sync with the audio. I am in the process of uploading a sample for you to review.

Jeff, I might be off track.

Are you saying the original footage may be what is off?

First, have you put the m2t file (forget cineform for a minute) directly on the timeline and played it on the timeline to see how it plays?

Verify for us that the original m2t file plays correctly or not on the timeline. You do not need to upload a sample for that, unless I am missing something here.

If you have not done this and find the original file was the issue than you have just wasted a ton of time.

If you have already verified the original footage is fine and I missed that then disregard post.

Jeff V., you might have hit it this time.

Call this "frame-drops". If this is indeed the case, it might result from insufficient disk speed, processor power, or such resources being used by other programs/processes during capture.

Captured with direct conversion to cineform - no M2T created? The one-step process direct to Cineform takes a lot of resources.

Jeff H. is right, you can narrow in on this by capturing some footage using Vegas in the default M2T format, see how that looks.

You can also try using cineform cap again using Medium or Low quality as a test (use less system resources). Medium is darn good. My info may be dated here - it's been some time since I did Cineform capture.

What are the specs of your editing PC? Do they meet the minimums for Neoscene's system requirements? Do you have non-essential background processes turned off? What drive are you capturing to? Are you running *any* other software during capture with Neoscene?

Alternative workflows that use less system resources would include capturing as M2T for later processing to Cineform, or, working with M2T on the timeline.

I'd guess you're using Cineform because it deals with Canon's 24F mode rather well? If so, there's nothing wrong with capture to M2T and later conversion with Neoscene - no generations are lost. It just takes a bit more time...

I didn't think to try capturing to Vegas and testing for a sync issue. I'll do that.

I am using NeoScene to use with Canon's 24F, yes. Not sure how to convert the footage after the fact. I'll look at that as well.

In the meantime, heres an uploaded clip for your review. No color correction, etc.


http://vimeo.com/5888647

I didn't realized you captured via Cineform, my bad. Capture the m2t files directly. You need to start at the beginning and work from there to find your issue.