Vegas can do that!
 

Just for Vegas users. I have read many posts in this community questioning why Premiere can't do things, like this one:

<<<-- Originally posted by Hans Henrik Bang : I have a scene that is supposed to look stressful, and then it calms down. I would therefore like to slow it down gradually, going from speed 400% to 100%. That should include the music track with "maintain original pitch".

My problem is that I cannot keyframe the speed attribute, so it remains constant for the entire scene. Any ideas on how to achieve that? -->>>

Vegas can do this pretty simply with Velocity Envelopes. I use Premiere Pro some but try to avoid it just because I learned to edit in Vegas and feel more comfortable.

My question is: Does Vegas really have that much more on these other editors, or am I just seeing posts that Vegas happens to do well? I'm asking because I've recently thought I should invest a serious amount of time in learning Premiere Pro, but the more I read these type posts, I ask myself if its worth it. No flames, just feedback from folks who work both.

Patrick,
I don't use Premiere but have heard Douglas Spotted Eagle, who has used both extensively, say many times how much better it is to edit in Vegas than Premiere. You might do a forum search to find what others have said. Hope this helps.
Randy

Vegas is more powerful IMO.

Audio tools are wonderful and blow Premiere away.

Compositing seems to be better in Vegas. Color correction is better in Vegas (premiere doesn't seem to have a secondary color corrector).

Not everyone may need all of Vegas's features.

You might also work slower in Vegas if cannot get a good workflow for it. You have to be careful about media management (which Vegas doesn't do as well as other NLEs).

One problem with this is that Vegas will NOT variably adjust the audio. There is no velocity envelope for audio. But it IS very powerful for adjusting speeds of video. While Premiere doesn't do either, Vegas can do half.

To be Fair, some things PP can do that Vegas can't are:

1. Intergration with After Effects, Photoshop, Encore, etc.

2. Nested Timelines

Vegas still rocks though!

1. Intergration with After Effects, Photoshop, Encore, etc.

Then you could say Vegas is integrated with Sound Forge, Acid, etc. In other words being "integrated" with other programs in their company's line-up is a given.

I've used both..... I prefer Vegas ten fold.

Of course there are things Premiere can do that Vegas can't. That wasn't the theme of this thread. There are also many other things Vegas can to that Premiere can't. BTW, Vegas WILL work just fine with AE and Photoshop but, I'll agree, Premiere is more tightly integrated with them.

<<<-- Originally posted by Glen Elliott : 1. Intergration with After Effects, Photoshop, Encore, etc.

Then you could say Vegas is integrated with Sound Forge, Acid, etc. In other words being "integrated" with other programs in their company's line-up is a given.

I've used both..... I prefer Vegas ten fold. -->>>



Of course, I do too. But I don't think Vegas' Competitors suck either. I just meet way too many Vegas users who completely disreguard it's competitors (Like PP & FCP). I'm just just trying to let this zealot minority know that each program has it's strenths and weaknesses.

Can you change the brightness contrast with vegas?

I have not seen anything for changing color or brightness in my older version of Adobe Premier 6.

I just got done filming 7 concerts and 4 of them came out perfect as I was hooked up directly to the sound board on my modified VX2100 camera and was under bright stage lights. However, the other three were filmed in room lighting and the light from the outside coming into the windows of a church. Halfway through the concerts the sun went down and my manual white balance created to much red in the performers faces and the exposure setting changed dramatically. Actually, I corrected it fine on my TV by turning the brightness up four clicks and dropping the red down.

However, I want to be able to do this on my computer and then export back to digital tape. Is Sonic Foundry Vegas Video the answer as Adobe Premier 6.0 doesn't have anything to change color or brightness of the video? If it does I have not ever been able to find it in three years of looking.

I am new to owning two VX2100's and found it easier to film perfectly ligted concerts than those that were not. I should have turned the gain up when the lighting got worse but didn't.

Of course, I do too. But I don't think Vegas' Competitors suck either. I just meet way too many Vegas users who completely disreguard it's competitors (Like PP & FCP). I'm just just trying to let this zealot minority know that each program has it's strenths and weaknesses. -->>>

I think it's actually quite the other way around. Vegas isn't often given respect. Some stark Vegas users can come across as zealots or defensive because of this. After all I was once a Premiere snob- I thought, "Vegas who?...lol". I never heard much about Vegas so the few times that I did I wrote it off completly.

After a while seeing how passionate it's users were about the program I decided to eat a little crow and give it a shot. Haven't looked back since.

Now is it Sony Vegas or Sonic Foundry vegas as I am finding searches for both?

Yes Vegas has:

1. Color Corrector
2. Secondary Color Corrector
3. Color Curves
4. Brightness/Contrast

...filters. Take your pick.

In all fairness, however, Premiere 6 does have filters to adjust the "brightness/contrast".

Two things:

You'll find many many people, including me, who have come from Premiere to Vegas. It's hard to find any traffic going the other way!

It's not just a question of whether an NLE program does a particular thing, it's HOW it does it. Vegas is a real pleasure to use - it does an amazing range of things very smoothly.

Peter

<<<-- Originally posted by Edward Troxel : One problem with this is that Vegas will NOT variably adjust the audio. There is no velocity envelope for audio. But it IS very powerful for adjusting speeds of video. While Premiere doesn't do either, Vegas can do half. -->>>

Vegas does indeed come with 14 (V4) automatable audio effects, including Compression, Noise Gate, EQ and reverb. These can be applied to an audio track and their settings adjusted dynamically with keyframes.
Vegas also has a separate volume envelope that you can apply to any audio track and adjust as you wish. It is easy to edit out coughs and the like with it, but this is much more practical in Sound Forge.

<<<-- Originally posted by Tor Salomonsen : <<<-- Vegas does indeed come with 14 (V4) automatable audio effects, including Compression, Noise Gate, EQ and reverb. These can be applied to an audio track and their settings adjusted dynamically with keyframes.
Vegas also has a separate volume envelope that you can apply to any audio track and adjust as you wish. It is easy to edit out coughs and the like with it, but this is much more practical in Sound Forge. -->>>

But those don't adjust the SPEED of the audio. The question was about velocity.

Ed,

Doesn't CTRL Dragging change the length of a clip (video, video+audio, or audio) while maintaining the pitch. I think I just did this last night to make 31 minute piece fit within my 29:30 timeslot. The slight acceleration of the pace wasn't noticable. I tried pitch shifiting down one half-tone (minus key) and it sounded different, so I took it back out (plus key). Then I checked the original piece in the trimmer and the time-compressed piece on the time-line and I couldn't hear any difference in pitch, just rate.

Isn't that changing the SPEED of the audio?

Yes it does but not with an "envelope" where you can choose it to go fast at one point and slow at another....smoothly ramping in between the two points.

it can, but can only be done in non realtime its called pitch changing. I havent messed with it in Vegas, but i KNOW soundforge can do this used it as a Turntable effect.. LOL

Literally sounding like a turntable if u want it to.. speed up slow down.. u can also adjust it in transposing keyranges etc etc etc or literally insert points and adjsut manualy

Its an integrated effect however, as u can open an AVI in soundforge, u can easily isolate a clip, open the pitch change, adjust the envelope to suit, and render to wav or back to AVI.
Bit like After Effects for audio.. LOL

Like i said, its not realtime, but u can mess around with an envelope and adjust as u hear it...

Premiere Pro and Vegas can do it. Premiere Pro is radically different from Premiere 6.x (i.e. not crappy). I believe Vegas has a slight edge though since you can do split previews comparing one shot to another. Check out Billy Boy's color correction tutorials.

If you want really fine control over the image, Vegas has a decent secondary color correction which you can use to really tweak out an image (time consuming though).

And of course, you can tryout the demos for both programs.

2- Pitchi bending: In Vegas, you can conveniently open a copy of your audio in another program (right click --> open copy in audio editor). It also conveniently adds the wet track as a 'take' so a few mouse clicks and you are back to the original. You can also use a wide range of plug-ins (not sure if there is a pitch bending plug-in).

Vegas is *halfway* there, other NLEs are not.

CTRL-Drag WILL let you change the speed of audio to a constant new rate. But there is NO velocity envelope for audio. If you want a constant speed change, yes you can do this fine in Vegas with both audio and video staying in sync.

Ed,

OK, if Vegas can change audio speed a 'constant rate', doesn't this mean they are a hair's breadth away from variable capability, i.e. "Audio Velocity Envelope"? I say this because if I can change the velocity for a given segment length, and create slower and slower velocity on successive segments, I'm manually doing to an audio event what the Automation tool does on a video velocity envelope, right?

Vegas 5.0c capability?

Kind of but with a LOT more work than the velocity envelope. I would NOT look for this functionality in 5. The main reason I say this is because the CTRL-Drag feature for audio was also in Vegas 4 and Vegas 3.

<<<-- Originally posted by Dan Melius : Now is it Sony Vegas or Sonic Foundry vegas as I am finding searches for both? -->>>
Sony bought Vegas, Acid, Sound Forge and some other products from Sonic Foundry earlier this year.

Dennis Vogel

<<<-- Originally posted by Dennis Vogel : <<<-- Sony bought Vegas, Acid, Sound Forge and some other products from Sonic Foundry earlier this year.

Dennis Vogel -->>>

The purchase was roughly one year ago. I believe it was around July of 2003 when it was finalized.

Time flies.

Thanks for the correction, Edward.

Dennis Vogel

Hi Glenn,


While I am awaiting my full version of Vegas 5 + DVD and the training DVD's, do you know if it is possible with the programs I ordered to turn up the volume on various talking parts during a concert. I have done this on an old demo version of Sound Forge from about 7 years ago but it can't do 48 Khz music only 44 Khz. I am curious if I will have to get new copy of Sound Forge full version. The package I am getting has something called acid pro but I've never used that program. The audio I am working on came straight from a sound board and is DAT quality so turning up the volume on parts should not effect signal to noise as there is no noise level at all.

On a down note, I ordered vegas 5 from Bhphoto 2 days ago for 699 and then ordered the three training DVD's from video guy yesterday. Today I found that video guy put vegas 5 + DVD for 699 plus all three training DVD's for free and so I lost out on a 160 dollar savings. I wish someone would have given me a heads up on that one :(

Based on what you have mentioned, Vegas should be able to handle your audio needs. Raising the volume is definitely possible in Vegas.

Not sure if raising the volume the best solution, but Vegas can do it well. With the automation controls you can use the mouse to control the volume envelope. It's very much like a mixer with faders. If you get a control surface (not too sure about these) you can move the faders on it like a real mixer and adjust volume envelopes in Vegas that way.

Raising the volume will bring up the background noise along with it, which may not work well for you.

I will find out next week as Vegas 5 Plus DVD is suppose to arrive on Monday. There is no background noise as I recorded on a modified by Greg Winter Sony VX2100 going into a mixpre and on into the musician's sound board for four of the seven concerts I filmed. The sound is a million times better than the three concerts I used a Rode NT 4 as the musicians had microphones and a soundboard costing 10's of thousands of dollars.

After recording directly from the soundboard, I never want to record anything from the Rode NT 4 microphone again as the difference is just mind boggling.

The only downside is that the audience's applause are muted more so than on the NT4. This may be one of the aspects I will want to turn up the volume on. There was a HUGE difference in record level from the talking between the songs and the songs themselves (-35 dbu for talking to -3 dbu for highest points in the songs)

Dan, it sounds like you'll get nice clean sound through the sound board, and bumping this up during talking shouldn't create too many noise problems.

One thing I like to avoid for live performances is getting sound that is "too clean", i.e. clear music from the stage, but less ambience to make viewers feel as though they're in the auditorium.
I remember "Roy Orbison & Friends" - his sort of swansong performance with a galaxy of stars as back up singers - suffered from this - a wonderfully clear mix, but no room sound.

To get round this I try and record auditorium sound separately, maybe on a Mini Disc or 2nd camera, and mix it in as a separate track