How to use HD footage from Canon 5D mark ii with Vegas 9 Pro?
 

Hi. My girlfriend is a stills photographer and we both are seriously thinking of getting a Canon 5D mark ii digital SLR. She'll use it for shooting still, while I might take it once in a while for some video projects.

As most know, this camera has capability of shooting full frame HD video. From what I've seen, the video footage from this camera is really nice.

I've read somewhere that the HD footage shot with the Canon 5D mark ii does not have an intermediate codec (or something like that...) which means that the material has to be run through some conversion process in order to be used in a video editing application such as Vegas 9 Pro, which I normally use.

I came across this thread from about a year ago:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/what-hap...vegas-pro.html

but since many things change in one year, I'm wondering if maybe there has been some new developments regarding this issue, maybe more experience with handling this type of material with Vegas. Basically I'm just asking how relevant the tips are from the year-old thread on the issue and if there are people here with further tips and ideas of how to successfully use Canon 5D HD material with Vegas Pro 9.

Thanks!

Use NeoScene from Cineform to transcode for editing, then use the same Cineform codec (through the AVI lossless option) to render your final master. It's a very high-quality solution. And Cineform fired me last year, so I have every reason to trash those jerks!*

*I've never worked for Cineform. And their tech guy on the forum is a big help, should you have any installation/use issues.

NeoScene is a great, affordable solution.

Brad

Render
 

Brad could you describe the "Cineform codec (through the AVI lossless option) to render your final master" I have never heard of rendering this way. Is there a link to a description of this? I have been rendering to mp2 blueray that is described on Ciniform's site and using MPEG Steamclip to convert to H264 for Vimeo and such. This is very clean without any choppiness. Thanks, your help is appreciated!

I also use Cineform to master my final version. In that way, I have the cleanest and highest resolution to convert to whatever other format or formats I go to next.

Less expensive solution and truly cross platform

1) Quicktime Player (I use QT Pro)
2) Download and install the AVID DNxHD codec (free)
3) Encode the clips with MPEG Streamclip (free) at 145 8bit 1080i/59.94 or 220 10bit 1080i/59.94 - you can set a batch encode as well and let run overnight if needed.

I am doing this very thing with m2t clips using the Mpeg-2 reader from Apple ($19.99) in preparation for editing a documentary project. I'm deinterlacing & resizing the 1080i clips to 720p 110mb 10bit 720p and the clips are stunning. They play RT frame rate at Best Full resolution for Preview in Vegas Pro 9.0e. I prefer it over Cineform even though I have a license for NeoScene.

I've also run this on clips from a 5D and the encode to native is very fast - the file size grows, but you have a higher quality intermediate to edit with than editing the native footage from the camera.

You might want to try Epic I from DvFilm.

A $45 solution and you render from the original

I am using it and very happy with it

I was wondering why people don't just edit the raw files?

The native dslr clips are highly compressed and can bring even the most up to date workstation to its knees if more than one stream of footage is on the timeline. Edius claims 3 streams but that's with no effects. And you're limited to 8 bit color only in Edius and it's been my experience it's unpolished for grading your footage (You need to go outside to grade and you're still stuck with 8 bit color clips).

Encoding to an intermediate such as Cineform or DNxHD expands the color space to 10 bit thus giving you elbow room for better image quality when color grading. Then you can edit in any NLE and on both platforms.

Thanks, Cliff,

So, the workflow would be something like this;

1) Take footage.
2) Import into NeoScene or ProRes.
3) Convert to manageble files.
4) Import into NLE.
5) Edit
6) Render to highest settings possible.
7) Burn to blue ray (or DVD).

Did I miss something? Get something out of line?

Freddie.

That's correct for the most part. Rendering out to BluRay or DVD will depend on encode rates. As long as you stay within the specs for rendering to each - specifically Blu-Ray - you should be fine.

Dennis,

Sorry to take so long to respond. Sometimes I forget to set the notification to send email notices when others respond. It's a short life, and I've given up trying to do everything right. That noted—

The "Cineform codec (through the AVI lossless option) to render your final master" is simply my solution for dealing with AVCHD and MOV footage together or individually. I convert my original footage to the Cineform codec set to "high" (without deinterlacing, in the case of my 1080i AVCHD footage), edit (and Cineform CC's well), then render through the Vegas AVI option— "default template (uncompressed)." Once in the custom menu, set the "video format" option to whatever you have/like. I set mine to Cineform's newest codec, and make sure to set the output quality to "high." The result (depending on the original footage) is a beautiful master that takes up FAR less space than a normal uncompressed AVI.

The master then serves as a source to create a SD DVD. Plenty of info on that topic here!

As for the quality of Cineform's codec, use the free trial and judge it for yourself:
Cineform Neoscene

Brad

Thanks, Cliff!

(apologies for high-jacking the thread for a minute).

Anyone who's written/responded to more than 100 threads on this forum is certainly guilty of "high-jacking" a few. I'm grateful for all I've learned as a result.

Brad

What is Quicktime Player for? and is there an advantage in using QT Pro for this workflow over the standard QT?
Just trying to make sure I understand here... you use the MPEG Streamclip software and do what exactly? By the way, I'm running a Windows XP PC computer and I'm in PAL land. My 5D mark ii shoots at 25 fps. Would that call for a different encoding?
What is the MPEG-2 reader from Apple for? Are you using this instead of MPEG Streamclip?
Are you deinterlacing and resizing with the Apple MPEG-2 reader?

When it comes to codecs, encoding and bitrates... I tend to get a bit lost, so please try to explain your work-flow in somewhat layman's terms. THX !

Adi,

I'd like to take a shot at helping you, but since becoming an engineer 10+ years ago, I've been forced to work in PC land. As far as Apple (and Adobe) software, after disabling the slew of automated background processing, they seem to work well. But you'll need someone on this site more familiar with Apple workflow to explain how to do what you want.

Brad

In my previous life (pre-environmental engineering), I used Mac's exclusively. But in those days, we needed lightening to power them. Lots of surge problems.

Adi, Quicktime must be installed in order for Vegas to use MOV files. With the latest version of Vegas and the latest version of Quicktime installed, will it simply load those MOV files? Otherwise, what's wrong with using NeoScene to properly convert them into something Vegas can read?

Hey Brad... I'm in PAL LAND as well... running Windows XP... :)
I was just asking about certain stages of the work flow you described... but no Mac for me at the moment.

Sorry if I've somehow confused you.

Adi, I'm so easily confused, to the point that I consider it a good day if I respond properly to traffic signals. So no worries, and I certainly hope you find the workflow you're trying to achieve.

Ed(ward Troxel), do you remember meeting me in Orlando? You held a meeting downtown. Nice to see you're still sharing your knowledge with folks like me.

Brad

I don't know. ... (sigh)...I haven't even shot one frame of HD footage with my 5D mark ii yet. I'm still going through the manual :)

I just read that you need to run the footage through some sort of conversion (intermediate codec) to make it easily editable with Vegas (or other NLEs).

Brad suggested what seemed to be a very inexpensive and (from what he judges) better way to do that, so I thought I would download neoscene for a trial period and compare the two. But the work flow he suggested wasn't quite clear to me.

If you think I should just stick with neoscene and be done with it. I'll take your advice and go with cineform.

Brad, I certainly do remember that trip. I was down visiting Disney World at the time and it was a great addition to that trip. Certainly enjoyed meeting the folks in the Orlando area that evening.

Adi, I'd definitely try some various methods. I don't have that camera so I haven't tried importing any footage from it. I do have one of the GoPro cameras and they output MP4 files which you can drag straight to the timeline in Vegas.

I'm with Ed!

Neoscene is more than the easy way, it's the best way (or so our tests have concluded). If you go that route, be sure to follow Cineform's installation procedure to make sure the AC3 encorder is working right.

And Ed knows his stuff. Over the years (been a few), he's guided me to many great solutions (not to mention his own tools, which are definitely worth a look).

Brad

P.S. Ed, you've clearly got a better memory than me. But what's this "Disney" thing you're referring to? Is that near me?

OK,
can anybody guide me please?
I love Vegas, I can edit any format , even RED 4K raw files are flying on my PC (i7 920, 12Gb RAM, raptor raid 0) but 5/7D converts from neoscene are the files I am using the most and i can't edit them without problems;
since switching to 9e i don't see anymore red frames, now they are black, IO surrogate comes up every 5 min on the 3 min project with maybe 100 -120 DSLR clips, it takes me 30 - 40 Vegas restarts to finish, and sometimes a few more Vegas restarts to render video without errors,
I was trying to change Vegas and Neoscene settings, but nothing works, what am I doing wrong, and is there anybody else who has similar problems?
many thanks in advance;

The problem with the Avid DnX workflow is that clips still won't play that well, at least on my i7 they don't.

Buba,

I'd take that question to the Cineform forum (near bottom). David is likely to have a good idea what or who to talk to.

Brad

I already talk numerous times to Cineform support, but as I expected it is not Neoscene problem but Vegas ability to handle Cineform footage,
thanks for reply, will try Cineform forum

Okay Buba, my best crack at it is similar to something I've begun to see running Vegas 9 Pro (32-bit for legacy plug-ins) is this—

When I bump the Cineform files through Vegas Project Propoerties, Pixel Format, to "32-bit floating levels (video)," whackadoo stuff similar to what you previously described starts happening.

If you want me to post this in the Cineform Forum, no sweat. And feel free to quote me. If there's an issue Sony or Cineform side, it needs to be corrected before we get deep into an upcoming production.

Brad