New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

Hi all,

As posted in another part of the forum I recently purchased a new computer for HD video editing. I work with Sony Vegas Movie Studio Platnium 10 HD. I figured with a marginally powerful computer set-up my Vegas would run without a hitch but, alas, I just discovered that was not so.

A bit more info:
* I use Windows Pro 64-bit
*I use a Canon t2i

When I tried to drag movie clips into the timeline it said I needed Quicktime. I went to the website and downloaded that and then the clips moved in just fine.

The problem occurred during fading one clip into another. In my preview window a few things happened:

*I set the preview to BEST FULL and when it moved into the fade and the second clip it automatically turned back to Preview Half
*When it hit the fade part the preview became choppy a bit

I figured with my new set up the preview would work seamlessly.

Here is my set-up:
*Intel Core i7 Quad-Core Socket LGA1366, 3.06Ghz, 4.8GT/s FSB, 8MB L3 Cache, 45nm
*Antec Three Hundred Gaming Case ATX 3/0/6 2xUSB Audio No PS
*Samsung SH-S223C/BEBE SATA Black 22x DVD-Writer OEM
*Western Digital Caviar Black (WD1002FAEX) 1000GB (1TB) SATA3 7200RPM 64MB Cache OEM
*Asus P6x58D-E Socket 1366 Intel x58 + ICH10R Chipset CrossfireX / 3-way SLI Triple-Channel DDR3 2000(o.c.)/1600/1333/1066Mhz 3x PCI-Express 2.0 x16 Dual GigaLAN 8-CH HD Audio 2x SATA 6Gb/s + 6x SATA 3.0Gb.s 2x USB 3.0 ATX
*Asus VE228H, 21.5" LED Widescreen monitor 1920x1080, 5ms (GtG), 10,000,000:1 (ASCR) w/speakers, VGA, DVI-D, HDMI
*Corsair Enthusiast Series TX750 V2 High Performance 750W Power Supply
*G.SKILL Ripjaws Series DDR 1600MHz (PC3-12800) 12GB (3X4GB) Triple Channel Kit
*Microsoft Windows 7 Pro 64-bit
*EVGA GeForce GTX 460 1024MB (01G-P3-1370-TR) nVidia GeForce GTX 460 Chipset (720Mhz) 1024MB (3600 Mhz) GDDR5 Dual Dual-Link DVI/Mini HDMI PCI-Express 2.0 Graphic Card

Any ideas?

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

uncheck "Adjust size and quality" when you right click on the preview window area. Also, don't expect Best full to work seamlessly, though it might. You might need to run in Preview Auto mode.

Glad you got your new machine.

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

Unless I missed something I only see one hard drive listed. I do hope you have a separate drive for your video footage. You should never run footage from you C drive, you know that, right? Maybe a quickie test or something but not a real project. Just checking.

You can, of course, but whoa, it will really tax your HD big time, and can only slow you down.

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

You are right. I could only afford one hard drive this time but I DO have an external. Should I run video off of that?

Also of note, in Preview Full it also was hitchy on the fade into one clip to another.

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

robert, cut back somewhere and GET A 2nd HD!!!!

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

Robert,

If you were really that cash-strapped to not be able to afford even two hard drives (let alone three or more), you should not have gone for this setup at this time. And the reason why your new system is so slow is that you are using just a single SATA hard drive. SATA is only a half-duplex interface, which means that data can only travel in one direction at a time. And since video editing requires simultaneous reads and writes, this means that data to be written must wait for data that has been read to pass through before it can proceed. That severely slows down editing, rendering and encoding performance.

And if your particular external hard drive has only a USB 2.0 interface, you might as well not do any video editing at all until you can afford additional internal, external eSATA or external USB 3.0 hard drives. This is because the USB 2.0 High-Speed interface is limited in maximum practical transfer speed to only 31.6 MB/s total for all ports combined. And in the case of a USB 2.0-only external hard drive, the drive kit's controller is the limiting factor (31.6 MB/s maximum) even if it is connected to a USB 3.0 port.

If I were in your situation, I would have chosen a weaker Nvidia GPU (e.g. a GTS 450 instead of a full-blown GTX 460 1GB) but added an extra internal SATA hard drive. And remember, it's pound-foolish to go for a CPU- and GPU-heavy system that's wimpy on the disk subsystem.

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

could you explain the logic, are we supposed to read (the source video files) from one drive and render to another? thx.

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

Generally speaking, yes. The source video drive should be separate from the OS/Programs drive.

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

A first step: buy another Newegg.com - Western Digital Caviar Black WD5002AALX 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

then put your video on it. then you might render to your external drive. You want your orginal video located on your fastest drive, because if your video is on a slow drive it can/will affect your performance in Vegas, especially your preview.

You can try working off of your external, but if it's slow, it likely will give you reduced performance as pointed out. You might try using your external to render to., but not as a source file for your raw video.

THERE IS NO GUARANTEE your preview will playback perfectly even with separate HD, but at least you'll eliminate one problem.

My PC CPU is running as fast or faster than yours and it still does not play back AVCHD perfectly.

Your next option if things are too slow (after you add another hard drive) is to do one of two things:

a. Add another hard drive same as the new one you are about to buy and run it in RAID 0. Raid 0 takes two or more HDs to work, and they should be same type, size drive. If you are going to do that the Western digital Blacks are the wrong type of drive, get someting else, it's complicated and I won't bore you with the details.

b. OR buy a software program and use proxies to edit.

AVCHD is no picnic and can get complicated to edit. What is your final destination for your video? Standard def 16:9 DVD? Or bluray?

If your video is going to end up on a SD DVD, you can use a program to convert your raw footage first to high quality avi files. That way it will be resized properly, will edit easily and will give you superior results when you produce your DVD. Cineform is go-to program for this purpose

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

Thanks all,

A bit more background:
When the preview plays it isn't choppy or anything and looks fine. It is only when it hits a transition or an effect (ie: a Magic Bullet look) when it gets a little hitchy. Indeed, my external is a USB 2 Western Digital 1 TB My Book and, after a test, it was also hitchy.

For the moment, my output is on DVD.

A few questions:
1) So, we are not saying a second Hard Drive will actually eliminate the problem but could possibly help matters?
2) Would 500TB be sufficient, do you think? I don't plan, then, on saving anything onto the second HD save for videos used for a show. How much Full HD (High Def) is that?
3) Does the 32MB Cache or 64MB matter? The hard drive quoted above is 32MB and the one I have now is 64MB with the 64 being more expensive.

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

On hard drives, forget cache, it's a non issue. There are experts that argue 32 is actually better, I have no idea and don't care.

Get the size that you will not have to fill up over 50%. If a 500Gb drive works for your situation, get a 500GB. After a drive starts getting beyond 50% full it will slow to a crawl. If you have very small projects, a small drive will work as long as you don't fill it up. at some point you'll need a drive to store old projects. You won't want to store them on your new drive. Get a large drive for archiving, unless you don't need to save things.

Magic bullet is the same on everyone's computer, you didn't know that?

You want to use a separate drive for your video because if it is located on your OS drive your drive will worked to death. It will eventually kill your drive. Just don't do it. It is one of the basics of editing.

If your external drive works just the same, use it if you see no difference. I wouldn't want to edit of a USB drive, but that is just me. External USB drives tend to go to sleep, or hibernate, or whatever, and they are just a pain in the rear sometimes giving you Vegas issue. Maybe yours won't.

If you move a project to an external drive, delete the original afterwards so the original footage is not referenced by Vegas.

You still need a second drive. For backup. Don't be foolish. If your hard drive dies, you will lose everything. Hard drives DO die. You save your project twice, once to each hard drive. You store your video on two hard drives.

If your work is unimportant, and you can stand to lose it all, you can ignore the backup advice.

Now you know everything you need to know. Go forth and do great things.

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

Is that a typo or has someone actually started making such a huge disk? In my system I have several 1 TB drives and one 2 TB drive. And they are getting pretty full. I am assuming you really meant 500 GB, which is too small these days. Hitachi makes nice 1 TB and even 2 TB drives for not much more than a 500 GB drive.

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

Adam, folks like you at this forum have been a great help (and a great dent in my wallet :p). Thank you.

Yes, the above is a typeo. I meant 500GB.

From what I gather, one 500GB drive can hold up to 21ish hours of HD video. Of course, I could be wayyyy off base there.

Mainly, I like to burn and deleat backing up my files onto DVDs. Of course, I now realize how much that could be considering one 16gb card would be 4 dvds of info. Oy!

I really have entered a whole new world here, haven't it?

I think my plan now is this. I am getting back about $50 in mail-in rebates for my computer purchase. When those come in I will parlay the money into at least one backup internal drive, be it a 500gb but more then likely a 1tb extra. I will then edit off the second drive, render to external and store on at least two of those.

It should be go poor, go forth and do great things.

:p

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

One hour of video is normally 13.5 GB. 10 hours 135 GB. 20 hours 270 GB.

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

Okay, that's even better.

A few things I don't understand when it comes to drives now that you have cleared up the CACHE thing.

SATA: does it make a huge difference between Sata II and III?

Is 7200RPM the best way to go?

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

The Caviar blacks are fine drives. 2tb drives are generally pretty slow for editing, and 7200 is what you want. You should get a 1tb or smaller 7200 drive.

Sata II is what you need unless you have a SATA III controller or plan to get one.

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

Okay, so can I assume I already have a Sata III controller if my other Hard Drive is a Sata III (or at least I believe it is)?

And, from what I understand:
1) A second hard drive where I store the video clips will make Vegas Previews run better because the videos are not being read on the main drive where all the other stuff is being processed and such? So, as Randall said, having at least 2 drives will be better for the set-up I choose.
2) Don't expect even that set-up to run perfect as HD files are still a bit of a pain to edit
3) Magic Bullet Looks is slow on mostly all system setups

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

I see from your original post that you have SATA 3, I'm jealous.

Yes, your new hard drive may or may not give you a noticeable difference in your preview. I'm betting it won't, because you say it's fine except for MB, which is poor to preview anyway.

But yes you should still get one. Also, when your render from another drive your DVDs or blurays will be less prone to error, and that is for sure.

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

I'm fanatical regarding the number of drives I usually have connected to my editing system - usually around 10, with several at the ready for replacement when one fails (about once every 3 months or so).

Until recently I, too, believed that only 7200 rpm disks should be used for editing. I've used Caviar Blacks, and was pleased; but found that most any modern 7200 disk performed OK.

With good experiences resulting from 7200 rpm disks, I was loath to use any of the new 5900 rpm disk or variable speed disks that became available some months ago. But the reviews were good, so I bit.

I've purchased a 2tb Hitachi and pair of 1tb Hitachi disks and was astonished at the performance. According to ATTO Benchmark, I'm getting over 109 mb/s reads and writes on all file sizes over 32kb. My ancient REXTEST gives 68 mb/s writes, slightly better reads - with the disk about 1/3rd full.

Edit: I just saw this 1tb 7200 rpm Samsung for $55 (with promo code):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-22152185-L03D

It can be purchased now for $65 at newegg:

Newegg.com - HITACHI Deskstar 5K3000 HDS5C3020ALA632 (0F12117) 2TB 32MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

Failure rates may be higher than average, but I've been using the 2TB disk daily for months with no problems yet (you usually hear from those who have had problems in the Newegg Feedback, so their experiences may not predict yours).

Incidentally, I picked up the pair of 1TB disks for $48 each, free shipping.

I get even better performance from the new Samsungs: 149mb/s write, 95 mb/s read with Rextest (holds my old WinXP OS and not much more, about 1/20th full).

I got the first for about $70:
Newegg.com - SAMSUNG Spinpoint F4 HD204UI 2TB 5400 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

I really like these new slow-rpm disks. They are quiet and provide outstanding performance, and run almost at room temp.

By the way - you could use the spare space on your drive C as your backup drive. Then, if you buy one of these cheap drives for your editing disk, you could use your USB drive for the disk to which you render. Highly recommended.

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

James: Yes, Magic Bullet was a bit slow but also without using it during fade is when I noticed it. I merged two clips fading one into the other and though the file played smooth up until that point it went choppy the moment it hit the fade point and then was fine again after exiting the fade.

If having the second Hard Drive won't clear up the choppyness between fades/effects or possible future video hitches then the only reason to have it, then, is to not blow the drive with the OS on it from overuse and/or extra storage?

I am thinking Hitachi is the way to go considering it is a touch cheaper the the Western Digital Blacks though I could change my mind by the time the rebates arrive in a month or so and/or if there are sales. I am now gathering, and correct me if I am wrong folks, that I HAVE to have a Sata III because of some element on my computer that utilizes this or will a Sata 2 suffice?

Also, it looks like the set up to go is:
Hard Drive 1: OS, Editing Software, Photoshop etc. (music files?) / storage
Hard Drive 2: Video files / storage
Hard Drive 3 (external): render to / storage

This is all very helpful, folks.

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

As a Vegas noob I would like to peek in here and ask how you would setup your work flow on a setup of hard drives like mine pictured below.

The C:\ (OS Drive) and H:\ drives are RAID1 setups. The eSATA drives are WD RE3 enterprise drives.

http://alcphoto.net/temp/hdds.jpg



Thanks

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

Opinions are like....... well you know, everyone has one.
But here is mine,
Windows on C
Source files on G
Render to F
Thats just a nice easy solution that cant put you to far wrong.
If you were rendering with no recompression the green drive may hold you up a bit, but with any kind of FX on the job it shouldnt be noticeable at all.

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

Gerald has it spot on. Do as he suggests and you'll be fine.

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

Thanks! I love this place. :-°

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

Ive seen a few posts mentioning something like RAID set up.

I also noticed that one of the manuels that came with the computer talks about this type of set-up?

What is it and, as I deduce, I need at least two hard drives to set it up, I imagine it makes workflow smoother?

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

Raid 0 is the variety that speeds things up. I would avoid it unless you find your current setup is not fast enough.

If your Raid would be running off a controller on your MB, you will have to reinstall windows completely, unless there is a trick to doing it otherwise that I don't know about.

If you are using a Raid controller add on card, you won't have to reinstall windows.

I am a big fan of Raid 0, but you almost need three discs to make it worthwhile, IMO. Some will argue that point, and that is fine, it's just my opinion.

It can be fun to play with, but can bring all the issues anything new will bring to your computer. I say if you don't know what it is, forget about it. It can be a headache, causes more expense.

Google Raid 0 and read everything you can about it, and that will give you a start at understanding it.

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

I am a HUGE fan of RAID1. It mirrors two drives to act as one. So a single drive costs you double.

I am a photographer and do not need delays like reinstalling an OS and all my programs to get at my work.
So I have my System OS and a backup set of 750GB drives running in a RAID1 array.
I have had my A$$ saved more than once when a drive failed and the other drive just kept going until I could run a diagnostics or replace the drive.
Intel Matrix Control reports it if they get out of sync and rebuilds them as I work or tells me which one is bad.

A word on the WD 640GB 1AALS drives in RAID. They seem to fail in RAID arrays. These drives are notoriously fast is why I have ran them. Gamers LOVE these drives. As they failed Western Digital replaces them with 1 TB Black drives because they are no longer made.

I have my 2nd 640GB at WD now on an RMA. The last time I just slapped in another while I waited and was going to use the replacement for a spare. But I got the 1TB. So now I wait for another 1TB and I'll migrate my array to them in RAID 1.

The main thing is if a drive fails I don't even feel it but for the replacement duties. As for them getting out of Sync, its mostly durring power failures but I still only notice it by a tray notification that Intel is rebuilding the set.

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

Got ya. So RAID isn't imperative.
I will attempt things with 2 hard drives and 1 external with the set-up mentioned above (OS on one / footage on two / render to three) and see how that works before I start thinking about RAIDS.

Thanks

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

Based on what Allen says RAID 1 does seem to be a good thing. I've been using Raid 0 for 15 years and just never looked at 1, it might be a newer implementation and something I've never looked at closely. It still does not replace backing up to a separate hard drive though. It could be seen that way, but I wouldn't, based on what I've read. It sounds just as fast though.

But yes, you are correct to keep it simple at this point, just use your backup drive and see how it works.

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

A bit of a problematic new update:

Now, when files are in my time line, they come out RED in the Vegas preview window. Sometimes the entire clip is red and sometimes the preview window flashes red.

Any ideas on how to fix this one

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

Just to clear up. RAID 1 sends the exact same information to both drives and each drive is an exact copy of each other - this is called mirroring. If one drive fails the computer automatically reads from the other one and then you can replace the failed drive and the system will recopy all of the data to it. There is no speed benefit from RAID 1 -- it is only for data protection/redundancy. Both hard drives would have to fail to lose your data. Two 500GB drives act as 1 500GB drive with backup

RAID 0 - splits the data between two hard drives in what is known as "striping" It is much faster because while one drive is writing the other is moving its write/read head and as soon as the stripe is full on the first drive it writes to the second drive. On a single drive you would write to the first stripe and then the drive has to wait for the head to move over before it can continue writing. However, now if either hard drive fails you lose every thing. Two 500GB drives act as 1 1TB drive

There is also a hybrid solution call RAID 10. This uses 4 drives -- 2 in striping and 2 that mirror the striped drives. You get the benefit of the RAID 0 striping but the security of the mirroring. Here 4 500GB drives act as one 1TB drive with backup.

There are other RAID configs but these are the most common in home systems.

On my editing system I have a 300GB Rapter (10,000 rpm) drive for OS and programs, an 80GB Rapter Scratch disk, and then 4 750GB WD Black in the RAID 10 for data files

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

Yes indeed. I love my Raid1 especially for my OS. I just keep going if one fails making repairs later. Lightning takes it all out unless you have it off site but thats they nature of things.

I even have an external eSATA box with two WD750RE2 drives in RAID1 for backups. I have other means of backing up also totaling 9 HDD's.

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

Also, outside of the Red Preview screen problem Vegas is not saving the file or rendering it.

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

Further update....now Vegas says I have memory issues and to close programs. Is this because of not having second hard drive yet?

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

No, this is NOT because of that. I would contact sony support with this issue, if no one comes up with a suggestion.

Or you could uninstall Vegas and reinstall.

Or you could first test your memory to see if your sticks are all good, and if they are do the above.

Or you could double check your settings on your motherboard to see if the dram timings are correct, unless you don't have a custom computer, I don't remember what you have.

Re: New Computer - Vegas issues - Advice needed
 

Thanks for the quick reply, Jeff. Here is my computer system:
*Intel Core i7 Quad-Core Socket LGA1366, 3.06Ghz, 4.8GT/s FSB, 8MB L3 Cache, 45nm
*Antec Three Hundred Gaming Case ATX 3/0/6 2xUSB Audio No PS
*Samsung SH-S223C/BEBE SATA Black 22x DVD-Writer OEM
*Western Digital Caviar Black (WD1002FAEX) 1000GB (1TB) SATA3 7200RPM 64MB Cache OEM
*Asus P6x58D-E Socket 1366 Intel x58 + ICH10R Chipset CrossfireX / 3-way SLI Triple-Channel DDR3 2000(o.c.)/1600/1333/1066Mhz 3x PCI-Express 2.0 x16 Dual GigaLAN 8-CH HD Audio 2x SATA 6Gb/s + 6x SATA 3.0Gb.s 2x USB 3.0 ATX
*Asus VE228H, 21.5" LED Widescreen monitor 1920x1080, 5ms (GtG), 10,000,000:1 (ASCR) w/speakers, VGA, DVI-D, HDMI
*Corsair Enthusiast Series TX750 V2 High Performance 750W Power Supply
*G.SKILL Ripjaws Series DDR 1600MHz (PC3-12800) 12GB (3X4GB) Triple Channel Kit
*Microsoft Windows 7 Pro 64-bit
*EVGA GeForce GTX 460 1024MB (01G-P3-1370-TR) nVidia GeForce GTX 460 Chipset (720Mhz) 1024MB (3600 Mhz) GDDR5 Dual Dual-Link DVI/Mini HDMI PCI-Express 2.0 Graphic Card

How do I test the memory sticks?
How do I see if the dram timings are correct?

Thanks again.