HV20 Matchmove shot... Rex at DVinfo.net

Wes Vasher · September 5th, 2007, 06:19 AM

http://www.snapdrive.net/files/40125...xMatchMove.zip

Shot this at 1/60 shutter 60i. Using AE I de-artifact'd the HDV with Magic Bullet and converted the video to 960x540 60p. Used Matchmover Pro to track the plate and rendered the Rex model with Maya. I didn't match the lighting at all, simply rendered with MR final gathering and didn't spend any time color matching the render to the background plate.

I shot the exact same background at 1/48 shutter 24p but MMP just couldn't solve the track for some reason, I'm not smart enough to figure it out yet.

Turns out I didn't even need to use those tracking markers (I think I used two). The knots in the wood tracked much better.

EDIT
Included 3 files in the .ZIP, a 960x540 H264 file and a 480x270 H264 for those with older computers as well as a copy of the background plate at 480x270.

Jack Zhang · September 5th, 2007, 06:49 AM

Hey Wes,

The probable reason that the 24p sample didn't track is because you either need a higher shutter speed or move it slower cause the HV20 does after all have a rolling shutter.

Other than that, great job! Now if only I could use a Ratchet model and track with that for a few shots with my HC7. (that is, afterall, after I get hired by Insomniac Games... (Long story, tough to explain.))

Wes Vasher · September 5th, 2007, 06:55 AM

Jack, that's all I can figure as well. I did the exact same motion at 1/48 shutter 24p and it just didn't work. I did a rolling shutter test with both these settings and got just about the exact same amount of frame wobble so that's why I am confused.

Here is the thread with my tests...
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=102801

Mikko Lopponen · September 6th, 2007, 11:28 PM

The reason why it didn't work with the same settings is because 60i has over double the actual frames than 24. AE will use all of those frames for tracking. Or atleast it should use them.

Jason Pierce · September 7th, 2007, 09:19 AM

That was pretty cool to watch.

How long did it take?

Mikan Seovo · September 7th, 2007, 11:53 AM

Wes,

1st, nice matchmove, nice model

It took me quite awhile to get some "decent" matchmoves with MMP with 24p@1/48 footage (or higher shutter speeds). One thing that has helped A LOT is coming up with the image sensor size (and creating a preset in MMP for it).

Another thing that has helped me a lot is telling MMP the lens size. By my non scientific ways, I came up with a 9.5mm lens for use in MMP. MMP will typically calculate the 3d scene a bit more accurate.

Granted, when entering initial lens size in MMP, you're sort of saying, "hey, MMP, try this 1st". Doesn't always take, but seems to help.

In you're 24p footage, did you "just" track the markers on the table, or did you include anything on the floor, chair, fireplace, or boxes? MMP might need some my "y-axis" markers.

FWIW, I took a bit of time before I was able to get 24p footage from an hvx200 to get a good matchmove.

If you'd like, I can post samples that I've done, and/or take a crack at your 24p footage..

Mikan

Wes Vasher · September 7th, 2007, 04:42 PM

Mikan, great tip. I'll give it a shot. If I can't get a 24p clip to solve then I'll post one. Yes, I only matchmoved the top of the table.

Would love to see some matchmoving samples!

Jason, it took a couple hours. The track didn't take too long but setting up the scene in Maya and setting it up for render is what takes the most time. Then I let it render overnight.

Mikan Seovo · September 9th, 2007, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wes Vasher

Mikan, great tip. I'll give it a shot. If I can't get a 24p clip to solve then I'll post one. Yes, I only matchmoved the top of the table.

Would love to see some matchmoving samples!

Jason, it took a couple hours. The track didn't take too long but setting up the scene in Maya and setting it up for render is what takes the most time. Then I let it render overnight.

Give me a few days...working weekend..and I need to get clearance for posting - I didn't create the 3d models :)

One other thing I forgot to mention. Have MMP solve for lens distortion. Of course, this can cause more work with the comp, but it does seem to help in some cases. And it also depends on your footage and what type of matchmove you are attempting.

Mikan

Mikan Seovo · September 12th, 2007, 04:40 PM

Wasn't able to get permission, so I shot something myself and did some test geo.

Assuming there's still interest, what is the best way to post that sort of thing to the boards? New here and I don't want to upset list mods / others with breaking etiquette.

It's 720p, h264 wrapped in quicktime. About a meg.

Mikan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wes Vasher

Mikan, great tip. I'll give it a shot. If I can't get a 24p clip to solve then I'll post one. Yes, I only matchmoved the top of the table.

Would love to see some matchmoving samples!

Jason, it took a couple hours. The track didn't take too long but setting up the scene in Maya and setting it up for render is what takes the most time. Then I let it render overnight.

Wes Vasher · September 12th, 2007, 07:22 PM

The common practice is to use one of the many free hosting sites to host the file and post that link here. I like Snapdrive.net and Mediafire.com.

Mikan Seovo · September 12th, 2007, 11:34 PM

http://www.mediafire.com/?6ewzlem9dz0

Wes, thanks for the info..

some slight slippage towards the end...but you get the idea

There's also some motion blur that makes the 3d look like it does NOT match up...

Just test geometry, as I'm a very basic 3d modeler (I can make a great cube :) )

Handheld, 24p 1/48th

no color correction or any post work.

720p h264 file wrapped in quicktime.

almost a meg.

If you want me to take a whack at your 24p footage, let me know...

Mikan

September 5th, 2007, 06:19 AM	#1
Wes Vasher Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 440	HV20 Matchmove shot... Rex http://www.snapdrive.net/files/40125...xMatchMove.zip Shot this at 1/60 shutter 60i. Using AE I de-artifact'd the HDV with Magic Bullet and converted the video to 960x540 60p. Used Matchmover Pro to track the plate and rendered the Rex model with Maya. I didn't match the lighting at all, simply rendered with MR final gathering and didn't spend any time color matching the render to the background plate. I shot the exact same background at 1/48 shutter 24p but MMP just couldn't solve the track for some reason, I'm not smart enough to figure it out yet. Turns out I didn't even need to use those tracking markers (I think I used two). The knots in the wood tracked much better. EDIT Included 3 files in the .ZIP, a 960x540 H264 file and a 480x270 H264 for those with older computers as well as a copy of the background plate at 480x270. __________________ Clips \| Stills

September 5th, 2007, 06:55 AM	#3
Wes Vasher Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 440	Jack, that's all I can figure as well. I did the exact same motion at 1/48 shutter 24p and it just didn't work. I did a rolling shutter test with both these settings and got just about the exact same amount of frame wobble so that's why I am confused. Here is the thread with my tests... http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=102801 __________________ Clips \| Stills

September 7th, 2007, 04:42 PM	#7
Wes Vasher Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 440	Mikan, great tip. I'll give it a shot. If I can't get a 24p clip to solve then I'll post one. Yes, I only matchmoved the top of the table. Would love to see some matchmoving samples! Jason, it took a couple hours. The track didn't take too long but setting up the scene in Maya and setting it up for render is what takes the most time. Then I let it render overnight. __________________ Clips \| Stills

September 12th, 2007, 07:22 PM	#10
Wes Vasher Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 440	The common practice is to use one of the many free hosting sites to host the file and post that link here. I like Snapdrive.net and Mediafire.com. __________________ Clips \| Stills

September 5th, 2007, 06:49 AM	#2
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Hey Wes, The probable reason that the 24p sample didn't track is because you either need a higher shutter speed or move it slower cause the HV20 does after all have a rolling shutter. Other than that, great job! Now if only I could use a Ratchet model and track with that for a few shots with my HC7. (that is, afterall, after I get hired by Insomniac Games... (Long story, tough to explain.))

September 6th, 2007, 11:28 PM	#4
Mikko Lopponen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 393	The reason why it didn't work with the same settings is because 60i has over double the actual frames than 24. AE will use all of those frames for tracking. Or atleast it should use them.

September 7th, 2007, 09:19 AM	#5
Jason Pierce New Boot Join Date: May 2007 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 23	That was pretty cool to watch. How long did it take?

September 7th, 2007, 11:53 AM	#6
Mikan Seovo New Boot Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: sf, ca Posts: 5	Wes, 1st, nice matchmove, nice model It took me quite awhile to get some "decent" matchmoves with MMP with 24p@1/48 footage (or higher shutter speeds). One thing that has helped A LOT is coming up with the image sensor size (and creating a preset in MMP for it). Another thing that has helped me a lot is telling MMP the lens size. By my non scientific ways, I came up with a 9.5mm lens for use in MMP. MMP will typically calculate the 3d scene a bit more accurate. Granted, when entering initial lens size in MMP, you're sort of saying, "hey, MMP, try this 1st". Doesn't always take, but seems to help. In you're 24p footage, did you "just" track the markers on the table, or did you include anything on the floor, chair, fireplace, or boxes? MMP might need some my "y-axis" markers. FWIW, I took a bit of time before I was able to get 24p footage from an hvx200 to get a good matchmove. If you'd like, I can post samples that I've done, and/or take a crack at your 24p footage.. Mikan

September 12th, 2007, 11:34 PM	#11
Mikan Seovo New Boot Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: sf, ca Posts: 5	http://www.mediafire.com/?6ewzlem9dz0 Wes, thanks for the info.. some slight slippage towards the end...but you get the idea There's also some motion blur that makes the 3d look like it does NOT match up... Just test geometry, as I'm a very basic 3d modeler (I can make a great cube :) ) Handheld, 24p 1/48th no color correction or any post work. 720p h264 file wrapped in quicktime. almost a meg. If you want me to take a whack at your 24p footage, let me know... Mikan