Analog Component to HD-SDI at DVinfo.net

Don Crockett · May 6th, 2005, 07:22 PM

I googled this topic shortly after NAB and came across the SERIE HD 10 AD by LMP (Lux Media Plan):

http://www.computermodules.com/pdf/hd10ad.pdf

It came off this page: http://www.computermodules.com/broad...onverter.shtml

I know nothing about this technology. Anyone care to comment on the converter and the company?

Don

Radek Svoboda · May 21st, 2005, 02:36 PM

How much is it?

Radek

Jacques Mersereau · May 22nd, 2005, 07:17 AM

I am unfamiliar with this company. AJA video makes the same kind
of boxes, and from experience, they do a very good job . . . for a price.

I am wondering however why you would want to convert analog HD
to digital HD, especially if JVC rocks the world by manufacturing the
100e model which is supposed to have not only analog HD output, but
also 292M out as well (or with the flip of a switch, go back to SDI out)?

Filip Kovcin · May 22nd, 2005, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Crockett

I googled this topic shortly after NAB and came across the SERIE HD 10 AD by LMP (Lux Media Plan): Don

i talked with the owner of this company on IBC in amsterdam last year. the analog HD converter to HD sdi was in price range similar to AJA's products. which means around 2000 euro or more.

the guy is from germany. it's a small company, but with competent and fast contact via mail.

i didn't ask him about precise costs, just the price level. but maybe it's changed now since many things in HD are cheaper, and the HD market is growing.

as i remember my conversation with that guy (the LMP owner) - the key issue is that this way: analogHD-->HDSDI is much more complicated/expensive (to build, acheive...) than opposite way = HDSDI--->analog HD.

and that's the reason why is that converter so expensive.

but, to be honest, i beleive that best bang for the money is decklink multibridge converter. you are getting almost every connection/convertion for 2000$. but it's much bigger than LMP's converter. (decklink is 19" wide, LMP converter is little bigger than size of pack of cigarettes).

... just my 2 cents.

filip

Douglas Spotted Eagle · May 22nd, 2005, 12:36 PM

Convergent Design's box is HDV/HD/SDI, with component out, DVI out, firewire out/passthru....it's around 1500.00.

Thomas Smet · May 22nd, 2005, 01:45 PM

I'm sure this doesn't mean anything but it looks like it cannot handle 720p 24p. I cannot see any reason why it wouldn't be able to but that isn't listed as a test mode.

Jacques Mersereau · May 22nd, 2005, 05:00 PM

From my understanding of true 720P, there is no true 24P because the
format is _always_ 60 fps. To produce (real but fake) 24P, certain frames are repeated . . . the other frames are tossed out. This process happens
either in software or Panny makes a box (that costs more than a varicam)
that can do it in real time.

What is really cool is that when recording in 60fps, you
ALWAYS have the ability to pull true slo mo @ 24 fps.

Thomas Smet · May 23rd, 2005, 02:24 AM

Yes this works for DVCpro HD gear but what about new HDV cameras that are 24p? Will the new HDV pro spec handle 24p the same way? It might since the came seems to output true 60p from component.

Barry Green · May 24th, 2005, 05:11 AM

I believe the JVC outputs 24p carried within a 60p stream on the analog component outputs. As such, any converter that supports 720/60p should work with the JVC, whether you have it in 24p, 30p, or 60p (analog-only) modes.

Jacques Mersereau · May 24th, 2005, 12:08 PM

Funny how we (okay, me for sure) tint our personal situation . . .
I am a wildlife film maker and want to move up (really move up)
in quality from SD.

I am not even thinking about the HD100 recording to HDV. What
interests me is real HD output and figuring out a way to capture that.

The 100e model shown at NAB had the tape transport *removed* and
an encoder (much like the ones of which we speak) in its place.
*IF* I can capture real 720P (1280x720; 8 or 10 bit @60fps) THEN
I have something real AND *valuable*. I don't see anyone building
a stock footage library made up of HDV. Discovery, National Geo.,
and others want REAL HD.

Radek Svoboda · May 24th, 2005, 04:05 PM

Can someone figure out how to make HD100, FX1/Z, etc. record from HDSDI converter to mini PC that would compress image and record to RAID drive, all operated on DC and possibly carried in backpack?

Radek

Jacques Mersereau · May 24th, 2005, 08:08 PM

You too?! :)

Ken Hodson · July 10th, 2005, 11:31 AM

It could be done, but cost, weight and especially power draw would all come into play. 60p uncompressed at 720p resolution would eat a ton of space and require a very fast RAID.

Thomas Smet · July 10th, 2005, 11:44 AM

Not if somebody would build a different hard drive addon on device that would encode from the component outputs to some other compressed format besides HDV. It shouldn't be too hard to do. Even though right now almost all HD capture cards only have SDI input I don't expect them to be like that for very long. In the past there was no need to have component input on a card because all HD cameras had SDI. Now there will be a whole market full of HD cameras that only have component output and I expect we will soon see HD capture cards offer component input.

Take the Decklink cards for example. There is a SD version of their cards with component. HD currently uses only SDI but they could very easily add a component version to their HD cards.

Now that the demand will be there I'm sure we will start to see devices to get a lower cmpressed video from HD cameras. It might not be full uncompressed but it could have much lower compression and still work with normal single hard drives.

May 6th, 2005, 07:22 PM	#1
Don Crockett Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Newton, MA Posts: 26	Analog Component to HD-SDI I googled this topic shortly after NAB and came across the SERIE HD 10 AD by LMP (Lux Media Plan): http://www.computermodules.com/pdf/hd10ad.pdf It came off this page: http://www.computermodules.com/broad...onverter.shtml I know nothing about this technology. Anyone care to comment on the converter and the company? Don

May 22nd, 2005, 07:17 AM	#3
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	I am unfamiliar with this company. AJA video makes the same kind of boxes, and from experience, they do a very good job . . . for a price. I am wondering however why you would want to convert analog HD to digital HD, especially if JVC rocks the world by manufacturing the 100e model which is supposed to have not only analog HD output, but also 292M out as well (or with the flip of a switch, go back to SDI out)? __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

May 22nd, 2005, 12:36 PM	#5
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Convergent Design's box is HDV/HD/SDI, with component out, DVI out, firewire out/passthru....it's around 1500.00. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

May 22nd, 2005, 05:00 PM	#7
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	From my understanding of true 720P, there is no true 24P because the format is _always_ 60 fps. To produce (real but fake) 24P, certain frames are repeated . . . the other frames are tossed out. This process happens either in software or Panny makes a box (that costs more than a varicam) that can do it in real time. What is really cool is that when recording in 60fps, you ALWAYS have the ability to pull true slo mo @ 24 fps. __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

May 24th, 2005, 12:08 PM	#10
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	Funny how we (okay, me for sure) tint our personal situation . . . I am a wildlife film maker and want to move up (really move up) in quality from SD. I am not even thinking about the HD100 recording to HDV. What interests me is real HD output and figuring out a way to capture that. The 100e model shown at NAB had the tape transport removed and an encoder (much like the ones of which we speak) in its place. IF I can capture real 720P (1280x720; 8 or 10 bit @60fps) THEN I have something real AND valuable. I don't see anyone building a stock footage library made up of HDV. Discovery, National Geo., and others want REAL HD. __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

May 21st, 2005, 02:36 PM	#2
Radek Svoboda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 500	How much is it? Radek

May 22nd, 2005, 01:45 PM	#6
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	I'm sure this doesn't mean anything but it looks like it cannot handle 720p 24p. I cannot see any reason why it wouldn't be able to but that isn't listed as a test mode.

May 23rd, 2005, 02:24 AM	#8
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	Yes this works for DVCpro HD gear but what about new HDV cameras that are 24p? Will the new HDV pro spec handle 24p the same way? It might since the came seems to output true 60p from component.

May 24th, 2005, 05:11 AM	#9
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	I believe the JVC outputs 24p carried within a 60p stream on the analog component outputs. As such, any converter that supports 720/60p should work with the JVC, whether you have it in 24p, 30p, or 60p (analog-only) modes.

May 24th, 2005, 04:05 PM	#11
Radek Svoboda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 500	Can someone figure out how to make HD100, FX1/Z, etc. record from HDSDI converter to mini PC that would compress image and record to RAID drive, all operated on DC and possibly carried in backpack? Radek

May 24th, 2005, 08:08 PM	#12
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	You too?! :) __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

July 10th, 2005, 11:31 AM	#13
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	It could be done, but cost, weight and especially power draw would all come into play. 60p uncompressed at 720p resolution would eat a ton of space and require a very fast RAID. __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

July 10th, 2005, 11:44 AM	#14
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	Not if somebody would build a different hard drive addon on device that would encode from the component outputs to some other compressed format besides HDV. It shouldn't be too hard to do. Even though right now almost all HD capture cards only have SDI input I don't expect them to be like that for very long. In the past there was no need to have component input on a card because all HD cameras had SDI. Now there will be a whole market full of HD cameras that only have component output and I expect we will soon see HD capture cards offer component input. Take the Decklink cards for example. There is a SD version of their cards with component. HD currently uses only SDI but they could very easily add a component version to their HD cards. Now that the demand will be there I'm sure we will start to see devices to get a lower cmpressed video from HD cameras. It might not be full uncompressed but it could have much lower compression and still work with normal single hard drives.