Wes Vasher, someone is taking claim of your HV20 frame grabs! at DVinfo.net

Mike Horrigan · May 23rd, 2007, 09:08 AM

Wes, someone is trying to pass of your cat picture as their own.

Link removed by Admin -- it pointed to material belonging to a DV Info Net member which has been re-distributed by a non-member without permission; a violation of copyright.

Check the cat picture under the HV20 samples.

His "capture" is much softer and less detailed than yours.

Mike

Wes Vasher · May 23rd, 2007, 09:55 AM

Thanks Mike! haha... that does look EXACTLY like my cat shot! What are the odds?

Not sure why they would want to use my shot... make it look worse and post it is beyond me. In defense of whoever posted this they say that it is a frame grabbed from "some HV20 footage" so I don't think they are saying they took the footage. It would have been appropriate to at least credit the source of the original footage though.

Glenn Thomas · May 23rd, 2007, 09:59 AM

I think he's just grabbed a bunch of shots that have been posted here. I recognise a couple of the others too. Doesn't mention that he took the footage himself though. I think they're just for comparison, and he most probably would have downloaded footage from the other cameras too.

But what terrible frame grabs! He's going to give the HV20 a bad name if people see those shots.

Mike Horrigan · May 23rd, 2007, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wes Vasher

In defense of whoever posted this they say that it is a frame grabbed from "some HV20 footage" so I don't think they are saying they took the footage. It would have been appropriate to at least credit the source of the original footage though.

Agreed, but it sure is implied.

Not to mention the fact that it makes your footage look like garbage when compared to your frame grab.

Of course, he could have just posted your excellent frame grab to show what the HV20 is really capable of, but he seems to have an agenda of his own.

BTW, he was too busy bashing the HV20 on another site and was using these "frame grabs" to show how soft the image is.

Funny, your grab from the same footage looks anything but soft. ;)

Mike

Chris Hurd · May 23rd, 2007, 10:10 AM

He's not a member here but he posts on usenet and I know of him from other circles not related to digital video. However he's not saying that Wes Vasher's clips are his own. Instead he is saying "below are some sample still frames that I pulled from some Canon HV20 footage," as in, somebody else's footage. Hope this helps,

Mike Horrigan · May 23rd, 2007, 10:18 AM

In the thread he posted links to (on another forum) he goes on to try and bash the HV20 by showing the samples he took from other users footage without any mention of who's footage it is. He could have at least given them some credit.

That's a big no-no as far as I'm concerned. Especially since his "grabs" make their footage look terrible.

In the end, it seems that was his goal.

The funny thing is, he accused someone else of doctoring their HV20 pics! Just because they looked good. :)

I'm not all that bitter, but I would be a little annoyed if someone did that with my footage. Just thought it was worth a "heads up".

Wes Vasher · May 23rd, 2007, 10:37 AM

Wonder why someone would go to so much trouble to make the HV20 look bad.

Chris Barcellos · May 23rd, 2007, 11:00 AM

To make himself feel good about putting out near $5k for his camera.... And, mind you, I am not knocking V1U. I would buy it if I had the need. What I love about the HV20 is that it gave me an entree into 24p that I wouldn't have, and it makes a hell of a nice image to boot...

Robert Ducon · May 23rd, 2007, 11:25 AM

Each still, without a doubt in my mind, has had a Gaussian blur applied before posting. It's too soft to even be a bad lens - with a bad lens, the HDV codec will still leave artifacts, and there are none. It's been doctored, Jim.

Someone's defensive and out to prove something.

Not 'cool'.

Ken Ross · May 23rd, 2007, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wes Vasher

Not sure why they would want to use my shot... make it look worse and post it is beyond me. In defense of whoever posted this they say that it is a frame grabbed from "some HV20 footage" so I don't think they are saying they took the footage. It would have been appropriate to at least credit the source of the original footage though.

Wes, I went head to head with this guy over at AVS. He's incredibly dishonest and I called him on that. His site gives no credit to anyone's picture and his intent was to 'prove' how 'soft' the HV20 video is.

I told him I had both the FX7 and the HV20 and found the detail to be every bit as good with the HV20. He used your doctored grabs as 'proof' that he was right. I've rarely seen anything like it! I then went on to post a grab from my HV20, but had to downsize it due to file size restrictions on that site. He then accused ME of 'doctoring' the shot since I downsized it and thus made it 'look good'. He then took another frame grab from somewhere else (probably here) and then sharpened it, applied leveling adjustments and then downsized it. Of course it looked terrible and was horribly oversharpened. I told him my undoctored shot was far better than his attempt to 'prove' how bad the HV20 was. The guy is bad news.

What ticked me off was that he called ME dishonest because I downsized the shot due to file size restrictions...and look what he did!

BTW, he did the same thing on another thread where he claimed that ABC's HD was no better than SD. There he took a 720p grab from ABC and horribly enlarged it so that it was soft. He was called on that too.

Mike Horrigan · May 23rd, 2007, 01:04 PM

AVS doesn't harbour them, he was banned after the moderator caught wind of his post. In fact, it was the moderator from AVS who figured out that he was taking footage from here, doctoring it, and posting it over there.

I love this site, but for Home Theater advice, there is no better than AVS.
AVS' camcorder sub-forum is no match for the forums here however. Not their speciality.

Cheers,

Mike

Chris Hurd · May 23rd, 2007, 01:06 PM

That's good to hear, thanks Mike -- I've always thought highly of AVS. Was worried there for a minute.

Mike Horrigan · May 23rd, 2007, 01:14 PM

No problem, Chris.

The problem is... when a forum has >400,000 members it does get tougher to keep an eye on everyone.

I prefer smaller, more tight-knit forums myself.

This forum is great for many reasons.

Cheers,

Mike

Ken Ross · May 23rd, 2007, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Horrigan

AVS doesn't harbour them, he was banned after the moderator caught wind of his post. In fact, it was the moderator from AVS who figured out that he was taking footage from here, doctoring it, and posting it over there.

Mike

Mike is correct. I sent the mod a PM thanking him for his detective work. I think nailing people like that is important in maintaining the integrity of the site.

Joe Busch · May 23rd, 2007, 03:12 PM

Soft... Hah...

These were Hv10 w/ slight saturation adjust (1280 x 720 not 1440 x 1080)

May 23rd, 2007, 09:08 AM	#1
Mike Horrigan Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ottawa Canada Posts: 755	Wes Vasher, someone is taking claim of your HV20 frame grabs! Wes, someone is trying to pass of your cat picture as their own. Link removed by Admin -- it pointed to material belonging to a DV Info Net member which has been re-distributed by a non-member without permission; a violation of copyright. Check the cat picture under the HV20 samples. His "capture" is much softer and less detailed than yours. Mike __________________ My short films... The Interview & Calls From The Führerbunker

May 23rd, 2007, 09:55 AM	#2
Wes Vasher Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 440	Thanks Mike! haha... that does look EXACTLY like my cat shot! What are the odds? Not sure why they would want to use my shot... make it look worse and post it is beyond me. In defense of whoever posted this they say that it is a frame grabbed from "some HV20 footage" so I don't think they are saying they took the footage. It would have been appropriate to at least credit the source of the original footage though. __________________ Clips \| Stills

May 23rd, 2007, 09:59 AM	#3
Glenn Thomas Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 320	I think he's just grabbed a bunch of shots that have been posted here. I recognise a couple of the others too. Doesn't mention that he took the footage himself though. I think they're just for comparison, and he most probably would have downloaded footage from the other cameras too. But what terrible frame grabs! He's going to give the HV20 a bad name if people see those shots. __________________ Personal Website: http://www.avene.org

May 23rd, 2007, 10:10 AM	#5
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	He's not a member here but he posts on usenet and I know of him from other circles not related to digital video. However he's not saying that Wes Vasher's clips are his own. Instead he is saying "below are some sample still frames that I pulled from some Canon HV20 footage," as in, somebody else's footage. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

May 23rd, 2007, 10:18 AM	#6
Mike Horrigan Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ottawa Canada Posts: 755	In the thread he posted links to (on another forum) he goes on to try and bash the HV20 by showing the samples he took from other users footage without any mention of who's footage it is. He could have at least given them some credit. That's a big no-no as far as I'm concerned. Especially since his "grabs" make their footage look terrible. In the end, it seems that was his goal. The funny thing is, he accused someone else of doctoring their HV20 pics! Just because they looked good. :) I'm not all that bitter, but I would be a little annoyed if someone did that with my footage. Just thought it was worth a "heads up". __________________ My short films... The Interview & Calls From The Führerbunker Last edited by Chris Hurd; May 28th, 2007 at 05:31 PM. Reason: removed quote of a post which has been deleted

May 23rd, 2007, 10:37 AM	#7
Wes Vasher Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 440	Wonder why someone would go to so much trouble to make the HV20 look bad. __________________ Clips \| Stills

May 23rd, 2007, 11:00 AM	#8
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	To make himself feel good about putting out near $5k for his camera.... And, mind you, I am not knocking V1U. I would buy it if I had the need. What I love about the HV20 is that it gave me an entree into 24p that I wouldn't have, and it makes a hell of a nice image to boot... __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

May 23rd, 2007, 11:25 AM	#9
Robert Ducon Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Victoria BC Posts: 400	Each still, without a doubt in my mind, has had a Gaussian blur applied before posting. It's too soft to even be a bad lens - with a bad lens, the HDV codec will still leave artifacts, and there are none. It's been doctored, Jim. Someone's defensive and out to prove something. Not 'cool'. __________________ Mac + Canon HV20

May 23rd, 2007, 01:04 PM	#11
Mike Horrigan Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ottawa Canada Posts: 755	AVS doesn't harbour them, he was banned after the moderator caught wind of his post. In fact, it was the moderator from AVS who figured out that he was taking footage from here, doctoring it, and posting it over there. I love this site, but for Home Theater advice, there is no better than AVS. AVS' camcorder sub-forum is no match for the forums here however. Not their speciality. Cheers, Mike __________________ My short films... The Interview & Calls From The Führerbunker

May 23rd, 2007, 01:06 PM	#12
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	That's good to hear, thanks Mike -- I've always thought highly of AVS. Was worried there for a minute. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

May 23rd, 2007, 01:14 PM	#13
Mike Horrigan Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ottawa Canada Posts: 755	No problem, Chris. The problem is... when a forum has >400,000 members it does get tougher to keep an eye on everyone. I prefer smaller, more tight-knit forums myself. This forum is great for many reasons. Cheers, Mike __________________ My short films... The Interview & Calls From The Führerbunker

May 23rd, 2007, 03:12 PM	#15
Joe Busch Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sammamish, WA Posts: 398	Soft... Hah... These were Hv10 w/ slight saturation adjust (1280 x 720 not 1440 x 1080)