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Old January 28th, 2008, 09:40 PM   #16
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the upside of getting upper end gear, resale value. at least for audio, it holds value much longer then video gear, especially cameras. a camera can be worth 1/2 to 1/2 what you paid for it in just a couple of years if you happen to buy at the end of a model's run, and something super duper comes out months after you got the camera you have.

in fact, the CMC641 for the next few days might be the deal, as its going up Feb 1. enough in fact that if you bought today, you could sell it 6 months from now and get what you paid for it, basically using if for free.

and may I suggest go out an learn hands on. ideally find a sound mixer who needs some help and do it for cheap or free a few times to learn. be honest about your experience level. I'm always looking for interns as they come and go,but they always learn a lot while here. the gas to get you to the shoot could well be the very best money you spend.
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Old January 28th, 2008, 11:52 PM   #17
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hi guys, please excuse me for joining. I just ordered the 702 recorder to go with my 302 mixer. I got the non timecoded version, will there be negative impact not having timecode. My understanding is that timecode is necessary for instance music videos, or for cameras that support TC IN/OUT. Is it absolutely necessary for the time code version, there is a $1000 difference between the 702 and 702T
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Old January 29th, 2008, 03:09 AM   #18
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If only the responses of the video-guys were this detailed...maybe I should become a sound guy. You people are most helpful.

I have a Sony PMW-EX1.

I like how you guys are recommending gear that I can continue to use as I build my sound kit. That's exactly what I want to do. I hate buying stuff I am going to sell later. I'm a buy the right thing once type of person. I eventually want to focus on the creative side of filmmaking, so getting good gear that I can learn on and get skilled at using is very important. I can see I am going to have to hire a few people once I get my production company rolling.
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Old January 29th, 2008, 06:08 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Roshdi Alkadri View Post
hi guys, please excuse me for joining. I just ordered the 702 recorder to go with my 302 mixer. I got the non timecoded version, will there be negative impact not having timecode. My understanding is that timecode is necessary for instance music videos, or for cameras that support TC IN/OUT. Is it absolutely necessary for the time code version, there is a $1000 difference between the 702 and 702T
Timecode is a convenience but usually not an absolute necessity. There's a lot of misunderstanding about what TC does and doesn't do for you when recording double system sound for video - a lot of people say you need TC to keep long takes in sync but that's not how it works. If you plan on hiring yourself out as a mixer I'd say you should absolutely get the TC version of the recorder in order to be able to provide it if the producer or audio post house asks for it or if they need a timecoded audio tape for transcription but if you're gearing up just for your own use it's much less critical. But on the other hand, considering that professional audio gear lasts much longer and holds its value much better than camera gear, I'd also say to buy with your anticipated future usage in mind rather than just for today's needs. If your budget will permit the TC capable-recorder then by all means don't worry about the kilobuck and go ahead and get one, it'll proably prove a good investment in the long run. If it'll strain the budget too far, movies were made for decades with nothing more for sync than an old-fashioned clapper slate.

BTW, the price difference between the 702 and 702T is actually closer to $650 rather than a thousand. Not quite as much a strain.
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Old January 29th, 2008, 08:35 AM   #20
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nice response steve. i figure since the recorder will be used for our own productions, the non timecoded version should be fine, i was thinking of using the camera's on board audio as a guide track for the 24bit 48khz recording on the 702.
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Old January 29th, 2008, 08:40 AM   #21
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Timecode is a convenience but usually not an absolute necessity.
In the video world this is an absolute. In the film world not so much so now, although as I've pointed out previously, I was amazed to learn how many of the major productions still hand sync film and audio.

Steve is right about the requirements. Unless you're going to start hiring yourself out as a mixer, then I would say your purchase was probably the right choice. Few if any of the indie projects I work on even consider timecode. Usually it's not until I talk to them about what they are shooting and in what format that I bring up timecode. Slowly I'm introducing most of them to timecode, but generally that's because they don't have the tools and I do.

Also, I don't know how many people are aware of this, but usually the burden of timecode and timecode equipment is placed on the audio crew. We tend to own the slates, master timecode devices, and boxes to properly jam the cameras.

Wayne
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Old January 29th, 2008, 12:13 PM   #22
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Are you saying you consider TC to be absolutely required for the video world or that it's a convenience but not required? Unclear on what you meant.
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Old January 29th, 2008, 12:46 PM   #23
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Are you saying you consider TC to be absolutely required for the video world or that it's a convenience but not required? Unclear on what you meant.
Sorry, that I think it's a convenient thing to have. It is not required. Now, a slate (even a dumb slate), that I would call an absolute must have. ;-)

Wayne
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Old January 29th, 2008, 12:56 PM   #24
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Sorry, that I think it's a convenient thing to have. It is not required. Now, a slate (even a dumb slate), that I would call an absolute must have. ;-)

Wayne
That's what I'd thought you meant but was just checkin' <grin> And I absolutely agree on the slate. In fact, a Don Earl Hollywood Classic slate was actually the first piece of gear I bought (seriously - hung it on the wall next to my workstation to serve as inspiration for my career aspirations)!
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Old January 30th, 2008, 11:12 AM   #25
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Just my two cents, but on the list mentioned previously I'd hold off on the cut 1 and the harddisk recorder. Instead, get wireless and decent lavs. As far as timecode on the recorder, I wouldn't buy one if it didn't have it. Also, a shotgun is a must. Sanken CS3e does it for us, but there are other options. Don't bother with a blimp or expensive suspension system. Get a good shockmount and dead cat style wind protection from Rycote or K-Tek.
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Old January 31st, 2008, 12:53 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Marco Leavitt View Post
Just my two cents, but on the list mentioned previously I'd hold off on the cut 1 and the harddisk recorder. Instead, get wireless and decent lavs. As far as timecode on the recorder, I wouldn't buy one if it didn't have it. Also, a shotgun is a must. Sanken CS3e does it for us, but there are other options. Don't bother with a blimp or expensive suspension system. Get a good shockmount and dead cat style wind protection from Rycote or K-Tek.
Marco has the right idea. You can rent a recorder when needed. I would buy the best shotgun mic/w blimp, wireless, field mixer you can afford. When you get to the point where you are renting a recorder to the point where you think you can pay for one then buy one.
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