ultimate reach at DVinfo.net

Sacha Rosen · March 7th, 2008, 11:53 PM

O.K ultimate shotgun mic. Price no object, used mainly for outdoor film stuff what would you guys go with, I'm thinking the Schoeps cmit

Thomas Barthle Jr. · March 8th, 2008, 08:24 AM

Since your topic is called ultimate reach, I would imagine you are looking for a long range shot gun. I don't know much about shot gun mics, I mainly work in studio environment, but a parabolic mic may work better. You can even google a DIY unit. Hope this helps.

Jeffery Magat · March 8th, 2008, 08:45 AM

The Schoeps CMIT is still considered in the range of a short shotgun.

The long reaching mics that I have used are the Sennheiser 816, Neumann 82i and the Sennhesier MKH70. My favourite is probably the Neumann.

Steve House · March 8th, 2008, 09:04 AM

Consider too that reach is best thought of in terms of optimum distance rsther than maximum. Everything is tradeoffs. Hypers fair best at around 8 to 10 inches out to 2 feet or so, short 'guns between 2 to 4 feet, and long 'guns from 4 out to about 8, sometimes 10, feet, roughly. Performance falls off closer than optimum as proximity effect starts to make it difficult to maintain a consistent timbre and the small circle of the pattern makes it more difficult to aim properly to keep the talent on-mic, while working at distances beyond the optimum allow room reverb, excess ambience, and other problems to creep in.

Wayne Brissette · March 8th, 2008, 01:04 PM

The Sennheiser 816 is probably the longest range shotgun I have used. It isn't made anymore, but you can find them on Craigslist and Ebay quite often.

Wayne

Petri Kaipiainen · March 8th, 2008, 01:11 PM

There is no such thing as "reach". The difference between omnis, cardioids, hypercardioids and different shotguns is the REJECTION of signals from the sides.

The only way to get "reach" is to use paraboloid reflector, but then you loose the low end, totally.

Sacha Rosen · March 8th, 2008, 04:07 PM

sorry I didn't mean anything by the title ultimate reach, I was just wondering which shot gun you would choose if you could only have one. I have a cmc641 but I am considering getting a shotgun for outdoors or when the shot is just to wide.

Petri Kaipiainen · March 9th, 2008, 12:35 AM

I use Sanken CS-3e, which uses an array of three capsules to maintain constant directivity also at low frequences. Highly recommended as an allround shotgun. Works quite well indoors, even.

read this: http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage..._brockett.html

Bill Davis · March 10th, 2008, 04:54 PM

Petri is right, there's no such thing as "reach."

You must start by understanding that sound diminishes rapidly over distance and that's an unavoidable constant.

So the ONLY tools any mic has in order to "focus" directionally on a sound at distance are A) the ability to reject CERTAIN GROSS FREQUENCIES of sounds (typically upper mid and high frequencies) hitting the capsule off axis
and B) LOW self noise that allows you to crank up the signal gain greatly without also cranking up the noise of the mic's own electroinics and circuitry.

Relying on A must necessarily diminish the amplitude of the overall recording because your REJECTING some of the audio being presented to the mic. So to compensate you've got to add more amplification.

Unfortunately B costs real money to achieve since only well-designed circuits built with top quality components and can generate CLEAN amplification without added noise.

Finally, there's NO magic mic that can separate the sounds you want to hear from overall environmental sounds UNLESS those wanted sounds are DIFFERENT from the one's you want.

A bird call being DIFFERENT from wind noise - you have a chance to isolate one from the other.

One human voice in a group of other human voices is tremendeously difficult to isolate unless the frequencies of the object voice are DIFFERENT enough from the others. Which usually isn't the case.

That's just the way sound works. No getting around it.

FWIW.

Sacha Rosen · March 10th, 2008, 05:50 PM

I understand this, I was just wondering if money was no object what shotgun mic would you buy?

Wayne Brissette · March 10th, 2008, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sacha Rosen

I understand this, I was just wondering if money was no object what shotgun mic would you buy?

Actually that is a bit different than what you asked, or at least what we turned it into. ;)

My choices in no order:

* Neumann KMR 82i
* Scheops CMIT 5U
* Sanken CSS5

Wayne

Bill Davis · March 10th, 2008, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sacha Rosen

I understand this, I was just wondering if money was no object what shotgun mic would you buy?

It would TOTALLY depend on WHAT and WHERE I was going to record.

For example, if the subject was dialog in nature - out in a field far from civilization, a big assed rear lobe sensitivity would be no hassle - the rear lobe would likely be pointed at the sky - which the last time I noticed makes very little noise.

Hauling out that same mic for dialog in a big city, that same mic for booming dialog might make my life a lot more difficult being surrounded by building reflections, helicopters, whatever. See the problem? Two different uses. Two different pattern considerations. And there are hundreds more.

To pick the BEST mic, you pretty much always have to look at WHERE you are and WHAT you're going to be using it to record.

That's why sound recording is hardly ever just a "buy this and you're always gonna be good to go" kinda thing.

Sorry.

March 7th, 2008, 11:53 PM	#1
Sacha Rosen Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada Posts: 86	ultimate reach O.K ultimate shotgun mic. Price no object, used mainly for outdoor film stuff what would you guys go with, I'm thinking the Schoeps cmit

March 8th, 2008, 09:04 AM	#4
Steve House Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada Posts: 5,742	Consider too that reach is best thought of in terms of optimum distance rsther than maximum. Everything is tradeoffs. Hypers fair best at around 8 to 10 inches out to 2 feet or so, short 'guns between 2 to 4 feet, and long 'guns from 4 out to about 8, sometimes 10, feet, roughly. Performance falls off closer than optimum as proximity effect starts to make it difficult to maintain a consistent timbre and the small circle of the pattern makes it more difficult to aim properly to keep the talent on-mic, while working at distances beyond the optimum allow room reverb, excess ambience, and other problems to creep in. __________________ Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!

March 8th, 2008, 01:04 PM	#5
Wayne Brissette Major Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 383	The Sennheiser 816 is probably the longest range shotgun I have used. It isn't made anymore, but you can find them on Craigslist and Ebay quite often. Wayne __________________ Mics: KMR 82 i, NTG-1, MKH418S, MKH8040, SR77, QTC1, QTC40, SR30 Recorder: Zaxcom Deva 5.8 & MIX-12. Wireless: TRX900 stereo, Lectro 411

March 8th, 2008, 08:24 AM	#2
Thomas Barthle Jr. Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 86	Since your topic is called ultimate reach, I would imagine you are looking for a long range shot gun. I don't know much about shot gun mics, I mainly work in studio environment, but a parabolic mic may work better. You can even google a DIY unit. Hope this helps.

March 8th, 2008, 08:45 AM	#3
Jeffery Magat Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 186	The Schoeps CMIT is still considered in the range of a short shotgun. The long reaching mics that I have used are the Sennheiser 816, Neumann 82i and the Sennhesier MKH70. My favourite is probably the Neumann.

March 8th, 2008, 01:11 PM	#6
Petri Kaipiainen Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Espoo Finland Posts: 380	There is no such thing as "reach". The difference between omnis, cardioids, hypercardioids and different shotguns is the REJECTION of signals from the sides. The only way to get "reach" is to use paraboloid reflector, but then you loose the low end, totally.

March 8th, 2008, 04:07 PM	#7
Sacha Rosen Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada Posts: 86	sorry I didn't mean anything by the title ultimate reach, I was just wondering which shot gun you would choose if you could only have one. I have a cmc641 but I am considering getting a shotgun for outdoors or when the shot is just to wide.

March 9th, 2008, 12:35 AM	#8
Petri Kaipiainen Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Espoo Finland Posts: 380	I use Sanken CS-3e, which uses an array of three capsules to maintain constant directivity also at low frequences. Highly recommended as an allround shotgun. Works quite well indoors, even. read this: http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage..._brockett.html

March 10th, 2008, 04:54 PM	#9
Bill Davis Trustee Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ 85260 Posts: 1,538	Petri is right, there's no such thing as "reach." You must start by understanding that sound diminishes rapidly over distance and that's an unavoidable constant. So the ONLY tools any mic has in order to "focus" directionally on a sound at distance are A) the ability to reject CERTAIN GROSS FREQUENCIES of sounds (typically upper mid and high frequencies) hitting the capsule off axis and B) LOW self noise that allows you to crank up the signal gain greatly without also cranking up the noise of the mic's own electroinics and circuitry. Relying on A must necessarily diminish the amplitude of the overall recording because your REJECTING some of the audio being presented to the mic. So to compensate you've got to add more amplification. Unfortunately B costs real money to achieve since only well-designed circuits built with top quality components and can generate CLEAN amplification without added noise. Finally, there's NO magic mic that can separate the sounds you want to hear from overall environmental sounds UNLESS those wanted sounds are DIFFERENT from the one's you want. A bird call being DIFFERENT from wind noise - you have a chance to isolate one from the other. One human voice in a group of other human voices is tremendeously difficult to isolate unless the frequencies of the object voice are DIFFERENT enough from the others. Which usually isn't the case. That's just the way sound works. No getting around it. FWIW.

March 10th, 2008, 05:50 PM	#10
Sacha Rosen Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada Posts: 86	I understand this, I was just wondering if money was no object what shotgun mic would you buy?