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Old April 7th, 2008, 02:19 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Aumont View Post
Excellent, can't wait.

Not to hijack this post, but what are your thoughts on the AT 1800 wireless say versus the Sennheiser Evolution? I need to pick up 2 units, and these two seem to be the best for my budget. I was going to use the Tram 50, but now I may go with the AT899.

Thanks,
JA
More people seem to recommend the G2s but I own the AT U100s. Other than them sucking down a lot of 9V batteries, I really like the U100s so I am sure that the 1800 will fare well in testing. I have never used the Sennheisers so I can't really make a fair comparison yet, until I have a chance to test. I did try out the 1800 setup that Audio-Technica supplied to me and it sounds pretty good.

As far as the mics, both of those sound good, I think it would come down to personal preference. They do sound different. Listen to the samples and go for the one that sounds better than you.

Best,

Dan
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Old April 7th, 2008, 02:22 PM   #17
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Hi Bill:

Glad you liked the article, it was fun one to do.

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Originally Posted by Bill Davis View Post
Dan,
Hey, you're not breaking down and going to NAB this year are you?
No, a bunch of people have asked me to go but I am pretty busy with work these days so I won't be seeing you there.

Have a good time and report back on what was worth seeing.

Best,

Dan
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Old April 7th, 2008, 03:36 PM   #18
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Thank you Dan! Excellent as before!

I have read the handling noise sections on all the mics. It seems these were the mics that have no noise:
DPA 4061 & 4071
ecm-88
Audio Technologies VT 500

Of these (or maybe one of the other mics), which would be the best for putting on a dancer in rehearsals, on a T-shirt. (Probably using a Lectrosonics SM transmitter.)

Which would be the best to mount on the outside (or inside) of a loose T-shirt giving the least problems with noise.

The main recording would be when the dancer was talking to the coach and trying out moves.

Thanks again!
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Old April 7th, 2008, 04:49 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Jack Walker View Post
Thank you Dan! Excellent as before!

I have read the handling noise sections on all the mics. It seems these were the mics that have no noise:
DPA 4061 & 4071
ecm-88
Audio Technologies VT 500

Of these (or maybe one of the other mics), which would be the best for putting on a dancer in rehearsals, on a T-shirt. (Probably using a Lectrosonics SM transmitter.)

Which would be the best to mount on the outside (or inside) of a loose T-shirt giving the least problems with noise.

The main recording would be when the dancer was talking to the coach and trying out moves.

Thanks again!
Hi Jack:

Thanks for the kudos.

Any of the mics would work well in the situations you name, if rigged correctly. Just realize that the test I did was more about the cable noise. This is noise that is transmitted through the cable to the capsule, usually as a result of not rigging the mic properly.

What will be the most important to you when recording this scenario will be if the microphone is rigged correctly. Any of the mics you named will work great, what you need to counteract will be the fabric of the t-shirt rubbing on the screen of the microphone diaphragm itself. None of the mics I tested were resistant to cloth rubbing on the diaphragm screen, all mics will pick that rustling up.

Out of the four mics you named, two of them have the diaphragms on the top of the capsule (the DPAs) and two have the diaphragms on the sides of the mic (EMC-88) or the face of the mic capsule (VT-500). I would make your buying decision based purely on sound quality and your budget, then figure out the best way to rig it for the least amount of noise.

Keep in mind that for Broadway dancers and performers, the hair mic is often preferred because the hair and face are rarely going to be moving and contorting as much as the body of a dancer. For a hair mic, the Countryman B6 is hard to beat but the others we talked about could be used as well, depending on the talent's hair color and style.

The next article I am writing for Ken will be how to rig lavaliers because it seems that few people besides location sound mixers know how to do it properly. Rigging a lav correctly is basic problem solving, it's not difficult but if it isn't done correctly, you will have sound issues. It also sometimes takes trial and error. Your situation could be challenging simply because the dancer will be contorting their body in ways that a sit down interview or narrative scene might not ever do so it may take some experimentation and testing to get your result that you want.

HTH

Dan
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Old April 7th, 2008, 05:09 PM   #20
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That was a good read, Dan. Many thanks for that extensive comparison.

-gb-
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Old April 7th, 2008, 05:10 PM   #21
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Nice work! About time, too, that someone finally did a shoot out of lapel mikes!

I'd be interested in seeing some thoughts on the Countryman B3 as well. It's nearly as tiny as the B6, from the specs has a little more dynamic range and about $100 less than it's super-tiny brother.

Any chance of including it in a future update?
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Old April 7th, 2008, 09:03 PM   #22
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That was a good read, Dan. Many thanks for that extensive comparison.

-gb-
Greg:

I am glad that you enjoyed it!

Dan
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Old April 7th, 2008, 09:17 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Brian Standing View Post
Nice work! About time, too, that someone finally did a shoot out of lapel mikes!

I'd be interested in seeing some thoughts on the Countryman B3 as well. It's nearly as tiny as the B6, from the specs has a little more dynamic range and about $100 less than it's super-tiny brother.

Any chance of including it in a future update?
Hi Brian:

I am so glad that you found the article helpful.

Unfortunately, Countryman refused to loan me any samples of any mics to test or review so I used my own B6. In actuality, they really refused to even communicate to tell me, "no, we don't want to participate in the article." After about 10 un-returned e-mails and phone messages, I finally spoke with their marketing person and she was just not interested in speaking with me. When huge companies like Sony, Audio-Technica and Sennheiser are thrilled to participate, it has to make you wonder why a small company like Countryman wouldn't. We had great cooperation from a lot of the smaller companies as well like DPA, Sonotrim, PSC as well so I am stumped.

I doubt that I will ever test their mics because they were uncooperative and in my opinion, as someone who deals with a lot of audio companies, very unprofessional. These articles do expose their product in an objective and favorable light to tens of thousands of potential customers (I quote their marketing materials verbatim in a large part of the article) so that the readers can form their own opinion based upon what the manufacturer states, what I write as opinion and what the tests reveal.

Best,

Dan
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Old April 8th, 2008, 03:52 AM   #24
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thank you dan for the job you've done for us all. i suggest you guys at dvinfo to put this thread and the one about shotguns as sticky, the amount of infos in the two articles is just too large to let the threads desappear as time goes by.
dan, i can't wait to read your article about how to rig lavaliers. pictures and samples as well please!!!!

pietro
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Old April 8th, 2008, 08:39 AM   #25
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Thanks Dan!

Like quite a few other people by the sounds of it, I have been putting off making purchases until this came out, so it'll be put to use shortly.

One thing I feel might be missing, and that's that none of these mics as far as I know would have plugged directly in to your mixer- all would have used some kind of active or passive adaptor. I looked at the one for the DPA 4061, and to power from 48v requires spending an extra 70 (seems to be about $100) for the DPA DAD6001-BC. Was this factored in to the price you evaluated them at? I imagine all the other mics were in a similar position, though with the DPAs and their micro-dot connector, there can't be any wireless transmitters around that wouldn't require *another* connector to plug into them. At least getting a TR50 wired up to fit one of the wireless units would mean only needing one adaptor, for running wired, on 48v phantom. The DPA needs two, one for wired, one (at least) for wireless?

I appreciate you tried to ignore the price in terms of what you felt about their sound quality though.

Also, don't worry about zipping up the files altering the sound- it won't have. The zip file format is non-lossy, and the files we unzip are identical in every way to the files you/your web team zipped up.
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Old April 8th, 2008, 02:37 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Pietro Jona View Post
thank you dan for the job you've done for us all. i suggest you guys at dvinfo to put this thread and the one about shotguns as sticky, the amount of infos in the two articles is just too large to let the threads desappear as time goes by.
dan, i can't wait to read your article about how to rig lavaliers. pictures and samples as well please!!!!

pietro
Hi Pietro:

You are very welcome, sorry it took so long to get this article completed but it was a massive amount of work and since I really produce and DP for a living, these articles sometimes get stalled when I get busy with work.

Yes, I am hiring a couple of models and will have a sound mixer helping me out for the "How To Rig" article. There is nothing like it on the Internet that I have found, just a few paragraphs here and there and few snaps, but not much that is in-depth, provides step by step clear and simple instructions, nothing that tells you about all of the tricks about wig tape, topstick, mitten tips, etc. I have seen a few articles but nothing complete with good photography.

Now that I think about it, I am going to begin a new thread and I want to solicit challenging rigging scenarios from all of you, questions like, "how do I rig a lavalier for an exercise video?", "how would I mic a fight scene with dialogue in the middle of it?", stuff like that.

Enjoy!

Dan
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Old April 8th, 2008, 02:46 PM   #27
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Hi Phil:

All of the microphones in the article can be plugged directly into a mixer or camcorder as shown and as price quoted, or at least that is what I requested of the manufacturers.

Depending on which wireless system you use, yes, you might have to purchase a separate "MicroDot to TA-5F adapter" or whatever your wireless system uses (Hirose, TA-3, Mini DIN, 1/8") but I would think that would be pretty inexpensive.

With most of the different manufaturers, the way that each mic has to be ordered and specified is massively confusing, it seems that there is no standardized way to do it. Each manufacturer has their own way of specifying whether the mic is available hard wired, detachable, pig tail, etc. If you go to the Tram websites and the Sonotrim, there are pages and pages of ways that the mic can be ordered and yes, all of the prices are different.

The one I need to clarify with the manufacturer is the PSC MilliMic, I am not sure if their list price they gave me included the detachable TA-5F power supply. But I believe that with all of the others, I specified them as XLR either detachable or hard wired, what is the list cost and wrote in the prices I was quoted.

If you are interested in the DPA mics, I would highly suggest contacting the distributor in the U.K. and having a chat. The amount of DPA accessories available and ways that their mics can be configured is mind blowing. They shipped me a box full of nothing but mic accessories and there were hundreds of them. If the prices that they quoted do not include the XLR MicroDot connector, than I need to note that in the article. I will contacting DPA to clarify that the MSRP they quoted me DOES include the XLR MicroDot. I was told that it did.

Best,

Dan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Bambridge View Post
Thanks Dan!

Like quite a few other people by the sounds of it, I have been putting off making purchases until this came out, so it'll be put to use shortly.

One thing I feel might be missing, and that's that none of these mics as far as I know would have plugged directly in to your mixer- all would have used some kind of active or passive adaptor. I looked at the one for the DPA 4061, and to power from 48v requires spending an extra £70 (seems to be about $100) for the DPA DAD6001-BC. Was this factored in to the price you evaluated them at? I imagine all the other mics were in a similar position, though with the DPAs and their micro-dot connector, there can't be any wireless transmitters around that wouldn't require *another* connector to plug into them. At least getting a TR50 wired up to fit one of the wireless units would mean only needing one adaptor, for running wired, on 48v phantom. The DPA needs two, one for wired, one (at least) for wireless?

I appreciate you tried to ignore the price in terms of what you felt about their sound quality though.

Also, don't worry about zipping up the files altering the sound- it won't have. The zip file format is non-lossy, and the files we unzip are identical in every way to the files you/your web team zipped up.
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Old April 9th, 2008, 11:57 PM   #28
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You need to re-evaluate

Hi Phil:

After conversation today with DPA, they verified that the prices I have posted in the article are for the microphone only. They sell their mounting kits (an ENG kit and a Film kit) and the MicroDot to XLR adapter separately. I have since updated the article with the new list prices that reflect this pricing structure.

Sorry for the confusion, I was confused too.

Best,

Dan
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Old April 10th, 2008, 01:35 AM   #29
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But in truth, DPA probably has the most sane way of attaching mics. You use their adapter for 48V or their adapter for whichever wireless transmitter you have. There is absolutely no guess work, an no sound shop cutting of wires, adding power supplies, re-wiring, etc..

I was told independently by Coffey Sound here in LA that the DPA cuts the best with a boom mic, but didn't really believe it. But now I am starting to ;).

BTW, one mic I WISH you included was the Sennheiser MKE Platinum. It is another workhorse in the "industry."

Thanks again.


And P.S., both your mic review threads have to be stickied.

Last edited by Peter Moretti; April 10th, 2008 at 02:11 AM.
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Old April 10th, 2008, 01:52 AM   #30
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Dan,

Thank you for you excellent write up. You've done a fantastic job! I'm sure this kind of thing will be very helpful to a lot of people.

I was however looking for a wireless solution. I find a lot of the information I find on the ne tto do with this stuff quite confusing in as far as what works with what etc.

I've got the AT899 and Iwant to be buy a wireless solution. On A-T's website it seems you have to buy the mic as well. I need to buy this in a day or two (need the stuff next week) otherwise I would have waited till your next articles :)

So my question is, do you have a reccomendation for me?
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