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Old September 21st, 2012, 07:09 PM   #1
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Rode Videomic - Live Band - Settings

Hi all.

After watching a dozen video review/tip guides/set ups and reading a load of google search results im still a little lost on my new bit of kit.

Rode Videomic (not stereo, not Pro). Using it with a Canon 600d.

Firstly I spent a lot of time reading about AGC only to find out that because the 600d has manual sound controls AGC effectively doesnt exist. Note: I dont know much about sound! On the mic there is settings for 0, -10 & -20db along with a high pass filter option.

I think my main problem is understanding the manual levels I can adjust within the camera and what settings I should have them at. Am I right in thinking the mic volume control in the camera is digital gain and the microphone settings (0, -10 & -20db) are analogue gain? The digital gain, ive read, should be set to almost 0 although I find that I need it at 50% and the mic set to 0db to get a reasonably clear and audioable level.

High pass filtering should be on for dialogue only?

Im filming a live performance next week and ill be able to test during sound check although the buttons on the mic are extremely small and annoyingly placed behind the battery that i'd like a few pointers before hand. Despite sounding terrible for dialogue should I be setting the mic to -10/-20 for live music and lower the digital gain as much as possible? What db level do I want to be peaking at for live music?

Shaun
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 05:12 AM   #2
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Re: Rode Videomic - Live Band - Settings

See the sound recording section of the camera manual. AGC does exist and you can choose between using it or controlling the levels manually. There are no magic setting where you can say "in this scenario use those settings" - each situation is unique. What can be said is to leave the mic's own attentuation switch at 0 unless the sound is so loud that you're overloading the recording device. If the signal fed to the camera is too hot, set the switch to -10 or -20 as necessary. The ideal is to be getting optimum recording levels from however loud the sound is with the recording level controls set at about half to 2/3 of their range.
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Last edited by Steve House; September 22nd, 2012 at 11:54 AM.
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 06:57 AM   #3
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Re: Rode Videomic - Live Band - Settings

Thanks for the advice Steve. I do have the camera set to manual sound.

So in regards to filming a live band would you also say that the high pass filter is another setting that varies from gig to gig or is that option more clear cut?
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 09:15 AM   #4
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Re: Rode Videomic - Live Band - Settings

Hi pass will remove most of the bottom end of a bass guitar, so I'd not choose it unless you want/need to remove the bottom end. It's really for rumble reduction - which for speech means things like aircon noise and other low frequency annoyances. For music, you want to record as much as is there.

The other thing to watch out for is image shift. Depending on the band, and what is going through the PA, you can sometimes find an on camera mic can hear some very odd things - in some positions, you could find both of the internal capsules are pointing at the PA, which may not have certain things in in, as the amp or instrument on stage is loud enough. You could find that the PA gets recorded loudly while the bloke centre stage with the un-amplified sax is missing!
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 09:21 AM   #5
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Re: Rode Videomic - Live Band - Settings

Very helpful Paul. Sounds like being centered and face on (..obviously) to the band will be the best bet. Depending on PA set up (..obviously)!
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 09:37 AM   #6
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Re: Rode Videomic - Live Band - Settings

People place cameras where they need them for the desired framing. Why does nobody ever consider that a microphone needs to be placed also for the proper perspective, or acoustic "POV"? Especially since there are no "zoom microphones" (dishonest vendors notwithstanding).

NOTE: Mounted ON TOP of the camera is virtually NEVER EVER the right place for ANY microphone. An extension cable is only a few $/₤/ and it will have one of the biggest cost/benefit ratios of anything you have acquired this month.
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 11:18 AM   #7
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Re: Rode Videomic - Live Band - Settings

Building on Richard's thoughts, a shotgun such as the VideoMic would not be my first choice of a microphone to use for recording a band. 'Guns are directional mics intended to isolate a single source from their surroundings. In a music context you might use one to pick out a soloist from the ensemble of to bring up a vocalist but not for recording the entire group. For a group, a mic with a wider pattern such as a cardioid or even better, a stereo mic or stereo pair, positioned as Richard suggests, would be a better bet.
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 12:33 PM   #8
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Re: Rode Videomic - Live Band - Settings

Noted, although cost plays a big factor here. Im only low budget. Extension cables sounds like a good idea although for this particular event im filming space is extremely limited and I think im going to be extremely close to/in the crowd so having an extension wire running across the floor isnt a possibility (in this instance).
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 02:08 PM   #9
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Re: Rode Videomic - Live Band - Settings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun Forsdyke View Post
Noted, although cost plays a big factor here. Im only low budget. Extension cables sounds like a good idea although for this particular event im filming space is extremely limited and I think im going to be extremely close to/in the crowd so having an extension wire running across the floor isnt a possibility (in this instance).
Which would you prefer to do, figure out how to safely run a cable across the floor through the crowd or risk getting lousy sound so the entire shoot is a waste of time?
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Last edited by Steve House; September 22nd, 2012 at 02:55 PM.
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 02:58 PM   #10
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Re: Rode Videomic - Live Band - Settings

You need some of this:
(I wish I had bought shares years ago in the company that makes this stuff).
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Old September 24th, 2012, 12:19 AM   #11
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Re: Rode Videomic - Live Band - Settings

how about an h1 and let it record for most of the performance? wouldn't your sound change as you move around?
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Old October 4th, 2012, 11:43 AM   #12
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Re: Rode Videomic - Live Band - Settings

All filmed and went well. Sound recording was perfectly fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve House View Post
Which would you prefer to do, figure out how to safely run a cable across the floor through the crowd or risk getting lousy sound so the entire shoot is a waste of time?
I think you need to understand the difference between low budget, one person shoots and a job where you are paid for a perfect set up.

I dont have a mic stand or extension cable/tape/a dedicated sound assistant and the client wasnt expecting me to have those. It was a come in and shoot it job. I got there early to test out and set the mic level and that was good enough.

Approaching every question on here with an answer geared towards a more professional set up isnt always helpful.


That said, I would like to make it clear im not getting my back up about it. What the client expects, regardless of budget is never set in stone and its always helpful hearing a more professional answer even if it doesnt relate directly to the situation you are dealing with.
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Old October 4th, 2012, 05:34 PM   #13
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Re: Rode Videomic - Live Band - Settings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun Forsdyke View Post
All filmed and went well. Sound recording was perfectly fine.



I think you need to understand the difference between low budget, one person shoots and a job where you are paid for a perfect set up.

I dont have a mic stand or extension cable/tape/a dedicated sound assistant and the client wasnt expecting me to have those. It was a come in and shoot it job. I got there early to test out and set the mic level and that was good enough.

Approaching every question on here with an answer geared towards a more professional set up isnt always helpful.


That said, I would like to make it clear im not getting my back up about it. What the client expects, regardless of budget is never set in stone and its always helpful hearing a more professional answer even if it doesnt relate directly to the situation you are dealing with.
Whether its paid or a hobby, there's pride in craftsmanship. Mic stands and XLR extension cables are not the exclusive pervue of the professional - you can get a perfectly serviceable mic stand for about $25 at your local big-box music store and a 50 foot XLR cable can be had for about the same amount. We're not talking about budget breaking expenditures here - it costs double the total it costs to add those items to your kit for a single full-up of the gas tank on my 10 year old Isuzu Trooper, fer crying out loud..

What the client expects of you should be less important than what you ought to expect of yourself and I believe that one's personal standards should be to never deliver a job that is in any way less than the very best your skills are able to produce. If that means you have to spend a couple of bucks in order to gear up to do it right, then that's what you do.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 11:45 AM   #14
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Re: Rode Videomic - Live Band - Settings

Also, stands and cables will last you over 20 years. That tank of gas might last two weeks. Dinner out? a few hours.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 12:53 PM   #15
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Re: Rode Videomic - Live Band - Settings

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Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst View Post
Also, stands and cables will last you over 20 years. That tank of gas might last two weeks. Dinner out? a few hours.
I wish that tank of gas lasted 2 weeks! I average a tank a week at about $90 a fillup (72 liters at about $1.25/liter average for the past couple of years) plus about $100 a month in highway tolls plus an average of about $150 in train fares. That works out to over$500 a month just for the baseline cost of getting to and from my day job. Perhaps that's why I'm not very sympathetic over budget worries about the cost of a mic stand or a few hundred dollars difference in price between a bargain mic or recorder and a proper one that is capable of professional work. In the overall scheme of things a few hundred dollars in order to get the job done right is pretty trivial.
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