Proposing a $2K "Fix" to Boss for Distance-Learning Solution - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

All Things Audio
Everything Audio, from acquisition to postproduction.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 2nd, 2013, 09:30 AM   #16
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,359
Re: Proposing a $2K "Fix" to Boss for Distance-Learning Solution

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Crowley
Or you could simply put the bottom part of the mic into a conventional mic clip
Very true. But there could be a lot of torque at the lower end of an 18" gooseneck, for example if one of the students grabs the mic head and moves it. You'd at least want a very robust mic clip that would not fail, or accidentally release, under such circumstances. There is probably an appropriate clip out there, you'd just need to keep this in mind when making a selection.
Greg Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 2nd, 2013, 01:05 PM   #17
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 37
Re: Proposing a $2K "Fix" to Boss for Distance-Learning Solution

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Miller View Post
I am still confused about your 4-channel mic mixer. Originally you talked about 12-15 students. Later you revised that downward to 8-12 students. OK, we've agreed to use one mic for every two students. You're talking about a 4-channel mixer. That means a maximum of four mics, which translates to a maximum of eight students. Add any more students, and that mixer will be inadequate; you'll need to get a bigger mixer. You apparently think a 4-ch mixer is a good choice; I don't understand the logic behind that unless you are deciding to limit the class size to eight students as an absolute maximum. Care to clarify this point?
I personally would purchase the eight channel automatic mixer. My boss OTOH is frightened by its $1900 price tag. Heck, I could get two of the four channel automatic mixers for $500 less than one eight-channel unit.

I think I'll do this: I'll use a
microphone splitter/combiner like this
to create "doubles" for each channel on the mixer to get six microphones (maximum of 12 students) fed into the mixer. One channel is exclusively reserved for the instructor (lavalier mic).


Thoughts?
__________________
HD Rookie here...
Cornelius Allen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 2nd, 2013, 03:14 PM   #18
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 37
Re: Proposing a $2K "Fix" to Boss for Distance-Learning Solution

Quote:
Or you could simply put the bottom part of the mic into a conventional mic clip which threads on to any standard 5/8-27 stand. Simple and inexpensive.
Could someone please show me what this type of mic clip looks like? What about the stand?
__________________
HD Rookie here...
Cornelius Allen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 2nd, 2013, 07:29 PM   #19
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,359
Re: Proposing a $2K "Fix" to Boss for Distance-Learning Solution

There are many gated mic mixers on eBay, many for under $100.

Of course remember this: if you're also running the instructor through the gated mixer, then if one of the students coughs while the instructor is talking, that "cough" might take over the audio and mute the instructor's mic. Just saying...

I, too, would like to see a stand that's heavy enough to be stable with an 18" gooseneck hanging off to one side of it, and a clip that will securely hold on to an XLR-size shaft. Quite likely the appropriate hardware exists somewhere, I just question whether finding the right stuff is trivial or inexpensive. (Then again, that's when you call your dealer and tell him what you're trying to do.)
Greg Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4th, 2013, 03:21 PM   #20
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 262
Re: Proposing a $2K "Fix" to Boss for Distance-Learning Solution

Rent a conference gooseneck mic system, as are commonly used on large governmental (like they use in the senate or corporate board meetings) where the gooseneck mics have push to talk function and are scalable depending on number of participants. you can also use something like a Biamp Audia flex frame with 24 AEC (auto echo canceling)mic inputs such as are commonly used in high-end video teleconference systems ( which I design for a living) however this is not cheap solutions but are designed to specifically address this particular situation.

There are many options the details of the rooms and where participants will be seated really make a huge diff in what the best approach will be, very do-able, I have done large meeting halls with hanging mics that are attached to a VTC system where the audio from audience sounds as good as a small office speaker phone call. so its possible but budget dictates quality here, oh yeah not to mention physics.

for $2k... rent
Gerry Gallegos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12th, 2015, 09:38 AM   #21
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 37
Project Update

Last week I scored a literal steal on Ebay and was able to pick up *two* Shure SCM410 Automatic mixers for only $65 each! To add, I ordered a linc cable to turn them into a 8-channel mixer and a rack mount from Shure to install in my rack case.

These mixers are usually $700 new, $250-300 used, so I got a great deal.

Again, this is a project to close-mike six students (to start off with) for integration in our audio feed to distance-learning students via live streaming. We have decided that one microphone per student will yield the best quality.

Now all that remains is to purchase the rest of the equipment, which will amount to a bit below $1K:

Shure Centraverse Condenser Gooseneck Mics: $600 (Six.)
Hosa Audio Snake: $120 (One. Connects several mics.)
Microphone Cables: $120 (Six. Connects mic to snake.)
Microphone Clips: $50 (Six. Allows mic to be positioned.)
Microphone Clip Mounts: $50 (Six. For desk mounting clip.)
__________________
HD Rookie here...
Cornelius Allen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12th, 2015, 10:55 AM   #22
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,177
Re: Proposing a $2K "Fix" to Boss for Distance-Learning Solution

In my world, a mic for casual pickup of audience reaction isn't worth $100 each.
I would at least compare that $100 Shure mic with the similar $33 Pyle mic.
http://www.amazon.com/Pyle-PDMIKC5-P...YFSRPJKQKHJREN
At that price difference you could buy 3x the mics for the same budget.
Richard Crowley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12th, 2015, 11:06 AM   #23
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 848
Re: Proposing a $2K "Fix" to Boss for Distance-Learning Solution

Also consider sound treatment in the room. A few absorption panels can make a big difference.
Jim Michael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12th, 2015, 09:31 PM   #24
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,359
Re: Proposing a $2K "Fix" to Boss for Distance-Learning Solution

My only question about the Pyle mic: what is the output configuration?

The "user manual" is a joke, it refers to a wireless system, which this certainly is not. At one point the specs say output is 200 ohms, at another point it says 600 ohms ... that's fairly trivial. But most important, is the output balanced or unbalanced? There is reference to a cable with XLR(F) to 1/4"(M). Is the 1/4" connector TS (unbalanced) or TRS (balanced)? You want to be sure this mic is compatible with your mixer; at the very least you might need different cables.

Also, this mic requires a 9V battery, so be sure to have spare batteries on hand when you go into a session. (Ideally you would put a fresh battery in each mic, for each session ... at least until you have accumulated some data on useful battery life with this specific mic.)

FWIW, there is a similar model PDMIKC6, which uses 1.5v AA cells instead of a 9V battery. If nothing else, the AAs should save you some money. The output impedance is listed as 2.2k ohms, but again, I can't find any info about whether the output is balanced or unbalanced.

IMHO, read the "manual" for the PDMIKC5, consider the conflicting and incomplete specs, and draw your own conclusions. The mic itself might be just fine ... even a great bargain ... but I think I'd order one for evaluation, rather than ordering six of them sight unseen.
Greg Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2015, 12:01 AM   #25
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,177
Re: Proposing a $2K "Fix" to Boss for Distance-Learning Solution

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Miller View Post
My only question about the Pyle mic: what is the output configuration?

The "user manual" is a joke, it refers to a wireless system, which this certainly not. At one point the specs say output is 200 ohms, at another point it says 600 ohms ... that's fairly trivial. But most important, is the output balanced or unbalanced? There is reference to a cable with XLR(F) to 1/4"(M). Is the 1/4" connector TS (unbalanced) or TRS (balanced)? You want to be sure this mic is compatible with your mixer; at the very least you might need different cables.
One of the Q/A or FAQ on their website discussed the XLR wiring (industry standard pinout). Even if you have to chop off the connectors and put XLRs on them they are still a great deal IMHO.

Quote:
Also, this mic requires a 9V battery, so be sure to have spare batteries on hand when you go into a session. (Ideally you would put a fresh battery in each mic, for each session ... at least until you have accumulated some data on useful battery life with this specific mic.)
Since this only powers an electret capsule (which draws minuscule current) IME, electret mics powered from those 9V batteries will last a year or even two if you remember to turn the gadget off when you aren't using it.

Quote:
IMHO, read the "manual" for the PDMIKC5, consider the conflicting and incomplete specs, and draw your own conclusions. The mic itself might be just fine ... even a great bargain ... but I think I'd order one for evaluation, rather than ordering six of them sight unseen.
Yes. That is exactly why I suggested getting one of each to compare under actual production conditions.
Richard Crowley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2015, 07:30 AM   #26
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,359
Re: Proposing a $2K "Fix" to Boss for Distance-Learning Solution

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Crowley View Post
One of the Q/A or FAQ on their website discussed the XLR wiring (industry standard pinout). Even if you have to chop off the connectors and put XLRs on them they are still a great deal IMHO.
XLRs are used for both balanced and unbalanced connections. Since the other end of the factory cable terminates in a 1/4" connector, and we don't know whether it's TS or TRS, the mic may be balanced, or it may be unbalanced.

If the mic and cable are unbalanced, we don't know the pinouts at the mic end. (In fact it may just be single-conductor shielded.) Worst case, if it's unbalanced, it may use only two pins of the XLR on the mic body. So a standard balanced cable might not work. This could be accommodated one way or another, but a rather non-standard cable might be needed. Also, if it's unbalanced, it's very important that the mixer doesn't put out any phantom voltage. These are just details ... but they're important details.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Crowley View Post
Since this only powers an electret capsule (which draws minuscule current) IME, electret mics powered from those 9V batteries will last a year or even two if you remember to turn the gadget off when you aren't using it.
Agreed, in theory. Still, I read one user review that said the power switch got stuck in "on" position causing premature battery failure. (I don't know what "premature" means in terms of hours.) My point is that it would be wise to have some spare batteries on hand, just in case!
Greg Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2015, 08:22 AM   #27
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,707
Re: Project Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornelius Allen View Post
Last week I scored a literal steal on Ebay
You bought stolen goods off eBay?
Gary Huff is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:44 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network