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Old February 13th, 2006, 05:32 AM   #1
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Dual wireless for a single camera

Does anyone here use 2 wireless setups for a single camera?

Currently I use a Sennheiser G2 for the talent (groom) and a Rode videomic for ambient sounds. I know the Rode isn’t the best choice for this but plugging in the XLR adapter cuts out the onboard mic so if I want 2 audio sources I have to use something else and the Rode was highly recommended. My problem is that the Rode... even with the shockmount picks up “all” camera and tripod vibrations. Just touching the pan handle results in an audible “thump”. (with audio gain on the VX screwed way down).

So rather than investing in a different shotgun I’m thinking the best way to get 2 “clean” audio sources on the same cam is to just make them both off-camera and place a handheld G2 off camera somewhere at the venue. While I’ve found an iRiver to be a great backup for dialog the ambient sounds it records using the lav mic just don’t sound right to me. (like a church choir).

Anyone use this for mounting 2 wireless receivers?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

Any other recommendations for a second audio source?
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Old February 13th, 2006, 06:24 AM   #2
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Do you have the high-pass filter switch on your Rode activated?
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Old February 13th, 2006, 06:30 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve House
Do you have the high-pass filter switch on your Rode activated?
Yes. Actually, in either position the Rode runs too hot even through the XLR adapter.
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Old February 13th, 2006, 03:41 PM   #4
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I like this bracket. It's cheap, rugged, and it will hold two G2 receivers.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

RE: the Rode, I have one and I don't get the handling noises you speak of. Is the lead stretched tightly to reach the mic jack? That would provide a mechanical path for vibrations that might bypass the shock mount.

[Edit: I take that back. I just set up a test and I do get the thumping. I guess I was just unconsciously working around it.]
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Old February 13th, 2006, 04:19 PM   #5
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adding wireless if you do not need is just expensive and adds noise.
put you mic on a tripod (or even better a mic stand) next to you and eventually use an extension cable.
You never know what will happens with wireless. like this you alway make sure that one channel will stay clean and you will not get too many mobile phone pulse recorded into your soundtrack.
sometime i use a very powerfull clamp, so i can put the mic anywhere, prefferably over the head of people.
you will find such clamp for few dollars in any DIY shop.
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Old February 13th, 2006, 08:29 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Retread
I like this bracket. It's cheap, rugged, and it will hold two G2 receivers.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

RE: the Rode, I have one and I don't get the handling noises you speak of. Is the lead stretched tightly to reach the mic jack? That would provide a mechanical path for vibrations that might bypass the shock mount.

[Edit: I take that back. I just set up a test and I do get the thumping. I guess I was just unconsciously working around it.]
Fred, how the heck to you get "2" receivers on that bracket? :) I have an "L" barcket on my VX and sometimes I clip the Senn G2 to that. That's a good point about the RODE cable. It's pretty short but there's still plenty of slack in it.

Giroud, I've considered mounting the wired mic off-cam somewhere but I really don't want to fool with that during run-and-gun situations. (And I *will* forget to unplug the cable when I dash off somewhere - never fails). So far my Senn wireless has been pretty reliable and with two of them on different frequencies I figure I'll always have a backup.
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Old February 13th, 2006, 08:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Steele
Fred, how the heck to you get "2" receivers on that bracket? :) ...
It may not be clear from the photo and the description but it has two shoe mounts at right angles to each other. When I put my G2 receiver in one, I can plainly see there would be room to put a second receiver in the other one.
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Old February 13th, 2006, 09:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Steele
Just touching the pan handle results in an audible “thump”. (with audio gain on the VX screwed way down).

This will be an important piece of information for anyone with your model of camcorder. Which camcorder is it?

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old February 14th, 2006, 06:23 AM   #9
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Quote:
It may not be clear from the photo and the description but it has two shoe mounts at right angles to each other. When I put my G2 receiver in one, I can plainly see there would be room to put a second receiver in the other one.
At CES, we used that exact bracket with two G2s mounted on it and a Bescor 40W light on the camcorder accessory shoe. So, yes it will hold the receivers just fine. We did rotate the bracket to the right side of the camcorder to allow the LCD to be opened. Worked like a champ!
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Old February 14th, 2006, 12:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ty Ford
This will be an important piece of information for anyone with your model of camcorder. Which camcorder is it?
Sony VX2100.

But my guess is this will affect most any cam and folks maybe just aren't looking for it (like Fred).

Don't get me wrong... the audio pickup of the VideoMic is great when the camera is stationary and you can't beat the price but again just lightly touching the camera or pan handle on a tripod produces noise - totally unacceptable for me.

What's sad is now I'm thinking any cam mounted mic will produce the same noise.

I'd like to hear from others whether they hear the same thing. No need to film... just turn the camera on and put on a decent set of headphones.

To Fred and Guy: thanks for the info on the bracket. I still don't see the other shoe mount but if you say it's there then it must be.
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Old February 14th, 2006, 03:06 PM   #11
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I know that different cameras seem to be better isolated than others. I have used the VideoMic on a Canon XL2 on a Sachtler tripod and have had no vibration problems.

That leads me to guess that the lower mass of a smaller camera may have something to do with its ability to transfer vibrations.

Of course, your tripod could also be a problem, especially since you are hearing noises if you just touch the tripod pan bar. I don't get any of that with the Sachtler/XL2.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old February 14th, 2006, 03:49 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Steele
Sony VX2100.
Don't get me wrong... the audio pickup of the VideoMic is great when the camera is stationary and you can't beat the price but again just lightly touching the camera or pan handle on a tripod produces noise - totally unacceptable for me.

What's sad is now I'm thinking any cam mounted mic will produce the same noise.

I'd like to hear from others whether they hear the same thing. No need to film... just turn the camera on and put on a decent set of headphones

Hi Rick -take it from someone who's already travelled down the road you are travelling now. I had a VideoMic and I had the same experience. I heard a ton of noise in post and when I investigated I put on a set of head phones on just like you and the noise was completely unacceptable. I found that the only way to KILL to noise from that mic was to go to the audio settings menu on my PD-170 and set "WIND" to "ON". This almost completely kills the noise and the huge trade-off is that it also kills all the bass!!! I don't know about you but for my events I like the bass kicking and if bass is mysteriously absent from the recording -IMO it's crappy audio. Thumbs down on the VideoMic -way down.

Not every camera mic will produce the same noise. I bought a Rode NTG-1 as a replacement. Much more acceptable noise levels and better low-frequency response. It's $229.
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Old February 14th, 2006, 04:21 PM   #13
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About the wind noise, Craig. That's completely different than what Rick's talking about.

Craig, were you using the Dead Cat wind cover with the VideoMic? If not, and you were taking wind hits, that's why.

Craig, The NTG-1 and NTG-2 are hands down better than the VideoMic. Were you using anything in addition to the foam filter on tham and were the conditions exactly the same?

I've picked up wind blasts from HVAC systems while being 30 feet from the ducts (big ones) in some cases.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old February 15th, 2006, 08:01 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ty Ford
About the wind noise, Craig. That's completely different than what Rick's talking about.

Craig, were you using the Dead Cat wind cover with the VideoMic? If not, and you were taking wind hits, that's why.

Craig, The NTG-1 and NTG-2 are hands down better than the VideoMic. Were you using anything in addition to the foam filter on tham and were the conditions exactly the same?

I've picked up wind blasts from HVAC systems while being 30 feet from the ducts (big ones) in some cases.

Regards,

Ty Ford
Ty -

I owned this mic, I know EXACTLY what Rick is talking about, and I NEVER SAID OUTDOORS (where did u get that from?)

I'm talking about a work-around for this particular mic INDOORS, IN A ROOM, NO WIND, NO FAN, NO WINDOWS OPEN, NOT EVEN A PERSON BREATHING NEAR THE MIC. (in this environment the VideoMic is noisy)

So as I said... set "WIND" to "ON" If Rick puts the headphones on and toggles between WIND ON and WIND OFF he will notice that the noise from this mic completely goes away with WIND ON. I'm not saying this is a great solution because you kill the low frequencies but it's a work-around if you have no other alternative in the short-term.
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Old February 15th, 2006, 08:58 AM   #15
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You'd be surprised at how much low end sound is in our daily environment. My 416 captures it in exquisite detail and I roll it off at the mixer.

What do you mean "set WIND to ON?" The switch on the mic? If that's what you're referring to, it's not a wiind filter, per se, it's a low cut filter. And, yes, engaging it will roll off the lows. That's what it's there for.

Rode engineered the NTG-1 and NTG-2 both with a reduced low end frequency response; more like that of a Sanken CS3 than a Sennheiser 416.

By chance, are you using the mini to XLR adapter and going in to the camera with an XLR? There are some technical issues with the earlier versions (now resolved) that can cause low noise if the VideoMic is used with the XLR adapter and phantom power on the camera inputs is left on. If that's your situation, turn off the phantom power on the camera.


Regards,

Ty Ford
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