4:4:4 10bit single CMOS HD project - Page 112 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Special Interest Areas > Alternative Imaging Methods

Alternative Imaging Methods
DV Info Net is the birthplace of all 35mm adapters.


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 14th, 2004, 01:01 AM   #1666
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wilmington NC
Posts: 1,414
not sure Jason you said something about it being a bad process to use..didn't you?
Obin Olson is offline  
Old September 14th, 2004, 01:07 AM   #1667
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina
Posts: 444
RGB to YUV isn't a big penalty (about processing power)Don't know if image quality will suffer too much...
The only problem I see is that you would need a YV12 colorspace capable codec to compress the Bayer more or less directly.
If not you would need to interpolate at least the R and B parts.
Are you going to convert the Bayer on camera?
Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn is offline  
Old September 14th, 2004, 01:17 AM   #1668
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wilmington NC
Posts: 1,414
no we capture the RAW pixel data and then de-bayer the image and save with quicktime SheerVideo 10bit....unless that is that we have to go from RGB -> YUV first in a new process?? will the quicktime take care of that or not?

If this is a Quicktime process then I am home free and can jstu input the data into the quicktime SDK and let it do the RGB--> YUV conversion...I am not sure if this is how it works..anyone?
Obin Olson is offline  
Old September 14th, 2004, 01:33 AM   #1669
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina
Posts: 444
ohh, right.Clear now.
If that is the case just ask your programmer to implement the YUV conversion (I don't trust on built-in conversions, sorry)and send it to the codec..
Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn is offline  
Old September 14th, 2004, 02:09 AM   #1670
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wilmington NC
Posts: 1,414
good news:

Obin,

Within a few days we will release SheerVideo v1.9.8. This public
preview of version 2 will contain all the engine enhancements of v2,
including the incorporation of our StickyColor technology for
interconversion between RGB[A] and Y'CbCr[A] pixel formats. Version 2
turns the six specific SheerVideo codecs into a set of hubs capable of
inputting and outputting any pixel format with the least possible
information loss. In other words, every one of the Sheer codecs:

Sheer RGB[A] 8b
Sheer RGB[A] 10b
Sheer Y'CbCr[A] 8bv 4:4:4[:4]
Sheer Y'CbCr[A] 10bv 4:4:4[:4]
Sheer Y'CbCr[A] 8bv 4:2:2[:4]
Sheer Y'CbCr[A] 10bv 4:2:2[:4]

will directly input and output all of the following pixel formats:

ARGB (RGB[A] 8b)
'b64a' (RGB[A] 10+b)
'v408', 'r408' (Y'CbCr[A] 8bv 4:4:4[:4])
'v410' (Y'CbCr[A] 8bv 4:4:4[:4])
'2vuy', 'yuvs' (Y'CbCr[A] 8bv 4:2:2[:4])
'v210', 'v216', 'Y216' (Y'CbCr[A] 10bv 4:2:2[:4])

I hope this information helps answer your questions.

- Andreas

SheerVideo
Obin Olson is offline  
Old September 14th, 2004, 02:20 AM   #1671
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina
Posts: 444
Well....
Nice ,isn't it? :)
Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn is offline  
Old September 14th, 2004, 05:06 AM   #1672
RED Code Chef
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Holland
Posts: 12,514
<<<-- Originally posted by Obin Olson : would anyone care for a frame or 2 in the RAW format we have going? I would like to know the Rob project could transcode this RAW file yet... -->>>

The conversion application will not support this without work from
you guys Obin. As soon as the basics are done it will be an open
source project and you can add your own handler to read your
format. We can't just "magically" add stuff for you.
__________________

Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com
DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef

Join the DV Challenge | Lady X

Search DVinfo.net for quick answers | Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors
Rob Lohman is offline  
Old September 14th, 2004, 10:32 AM   #1673
CTO, CineForm Inc.
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California
Posts: 8,090
RGB to YUV conversion is extensively documented and reasonable straight forward to code. It would be worth picking up this book for the algorithms (and better understanding of the process) Video Demystified. One warning RGB to YUV calculations are always performed on gamma corrected RGB -- don't forget this stage.
__________________
David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com
blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman
David Newman is offline  
Old September 14th, 2004, 10:50 AM   #1674
Trustee
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 1,095
Hey Obin,

Yah, I forgot about that "sticky color" stuff that Andreas had talked about before. Supposedly it's seemless/lossless RGB->YUV conversion, because typically you are loosing something in the translation from RGB->YUV; the color spaces are not identical (AFAIK), unless using true floating-point operations, and even then I think there are ways to screw it up. I think the big problem is that you typically color-correct in RGB, so even if you have something in YUV, you're going to have to convert it back to RGB for good color-correction and then back to YUV for editing.
Jason Rodriguez is offline  
Old September 14th, 2004, 11:02 AM   #1675
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wilmington NC
Posts: 1,414
ok so then the workflow would be TIFF for CC in high bit and then save to sheer in yuv for editing? how does that sound?

The whole point is to keep it in a greater then 8bit depth at all times..wha would the point of YUV be anyway?
Obin Olson is offline  
Old September 14th, 2004, 01:41 PM   #1676
Trustee
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 1,095
That sounds good.

Altough you might want to consider the option of just doing offline/online-I think that you might be creating more problems that it's worth by trying to edit with the online files when that's not really necessary (unless it's short-form project). I know for anything over 10 minutes, you're gonna want to try and do offline/online for the sake of sanity.
Jason Rodriguez is offline  
Old September 14th, 2004, 03:38 PM   #1677
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wilmington NC
Posts: 1,414
so what an option that allows a save to SD resolution and DV codec??
Obin Olson is offline  
Old September 14th, 2004, 05:25 PM   #1678
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 59
Sticky color is lossless and artifact free 10 bit RGB > 12(16) bit YUV > 10 bit RGB and 10 bit YUV > 12(16) bit RGB > 10 bit YUV.
http://www.bitjazz.com/bitjazz/press/2004.04.22.shtml

FCP has a very nice mediamanager that will batch process your Project into another format.
It can automatically convert all your uncompressed 10 bit HD files into SD DV (or any other format of choise) and convert your edited sequences as well. All in one single step.
Later you can simply relink to your HD files to make an online version.
Anders Holck Petersen is offline  
Old September 14th, 2004, 09:17 PM   #1679
Trustee
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 1,095
Either that or you can use Sequence Publisher from IRIDAS for the conversion of the 16-bit TIFF files to a DV codec. The nice thing about that program is it allows custom burn-windows, etc., things that come in very handy for offline/online workflows.

If you're on the Mac, I can't reccomend Shake enough. Shake combind with some Perl, Python, or Tcl/Tk scripting is an unbeatable combination for file conversion, etc., although it's an expensive file converter at that!
Jason Rodriguez is offline  
Old September 14th, 2004, 11:35 PM   #1680
Trustee
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 1,095
BTW, Obin,

Just want to say again, if you take your 12-bit RGB linear image, and map that to a 10-bit Log colorspace, then encode to Sheer, you should be perfectly fine. In fact, you can then use Stickycolor to go back and forth between YUV and RGB, and like Anders pointed out, no loss. If you just use 10-bit linear though, you're loosing two bits, and in the case of the Altasens, those two bits are valuable, since you have greater than 11bits that are not contaminated by noise according to the Altasens spec sheet.
Jason Rodriguez is offline  
Closed Thread

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Special Interest Areas > Alternative Imaging Methods

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:12 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network