Macro's and colour separation?

Leo Mandy · March 8th, 2005, 09:01 PM

Hey Dan,

Here is a picture of my converter :

http://dvstuff.250free.com/convert.htm

IS this what you are talking about?

Dan Diaconu · March 9th, 2005, 12:33 AM

No Leo, that is indeed a converter but goes behind the lens.
I was talking about this one:

http://www.centuryoptics.com/products/prodv/xl1/16x_tele-converter/index.htm

Leo Mandy · March 9th, 2005, 09:58 AM

Ok, I will look into that. For now, here is the blurriness problem I am talking about.

http://dvstuff.250free.com

I have it down to few causes :

1) I am not zoomed in far enough - therefore getting the blurriness from the CD spinning near the edges of the frame.
2) hotspot causing blurriness (hence the need for a condenser)
3) Bad CD/GG

Any more suggestions?

Dan Diaconu · March 9th, 2005, 11:51 AM

If you can get a sharp image (in the center) the CD is good enough.
Hotspot will always be there using a GG instead of a Fresnel focusing screen.
The hotspot however will be less obvious when extracting a smaller section of the image in the center like 18/24mm or so.
Zoom in the image, move the camcorder farther away from the GG and stay away from any CU lens (if possible)

Leo Mandy · March 9th, 2005, 02:31 PM

I am in the process of trying another GG to see what transpires. Right now I am using the Macro 10+, the camera about 4 inches away. I really can't get farther away with that lens - but I will try with the 7+ and see what happens.
Do you have any idea why it would be doing this Dan? Nice and crisp in the center but blurring at the edges?
PS - I am zoomed in as far as I can go right now.

Leo Mandy · March 9th, 2005, 02:54 PM

A quick update :

http://dvstuff.250free.com

I have changed the 10+ to a 7+ and it is definitely and noticeably better. I am wondering why a macro lens would do this?
Should I get a less amount, maybe a 4+ to get even cleaner and sharper image??!?

Aaron Shaw · March 9th, 2005, 03:00 PM

The stronger the lens the more distortion and softness you will get towards the edges. Just one of those trade offs really. You can get highly corrected lenses but these usually cost a fair amount of money (though they can provide superb results).

Dan Diaconu · March 9th, 2005, 03:01 PM

Try it, but the tele-converter will get you "closer" WITHOUT the color fringes. (no short cuts for a good image) Test one in a retail store and see if it makes a diff.

Leo Mandy · March 9th, 2005, 03:22 PM

I just called a store and they said they don't have a tele-converter for my DV cam (which is a 43mm thread) and when I asked for a step-down ring for it - he said they didn't make Tele-converters that small...so I am not sure whether he just doesn't know what he is talking about or what.

Leo Mandy · March 9th, 2005, 04:59 PM

Drop down to the 7+ and wow! What a difference! This is great. Now I am getitng what I want -- clear and crisp. I am going to send back the 10+ 7+ and get the 1+2+4+ and see the results.

Leo Mandy · March 10th, 2005, 09:48 AM

Here is a still of the 7+, still major hotspoting which I want to get rid of and some vignetting - but alot better. Going to buy a condenser lens from Anchor optics and see if this helps.

http://dvstuff.250free.com

And one more update with a video as well. It is getting better, but still the hotspot issue and maybe Focal Range - check out the trees in the very background (jpg) - does that look like my Focal length is out a little bit?

Dan Diaconu · March 10th, 2005, 11:05 AM

Leo,
that looks familiar.....
http://dandiaconu.com/gallery/Brightnes-tests/IMGA0249
Best you can do is zoom-in and move the camcorder as further back as you can. A condenser lens will not remove the hotspot. Save your money. Only Fresnel focusing screen does that. Buy one, (it will be a big revelation), or get a second hand SLR (whatever the brand) and remove the focusing screen, see the diff.

Leo Mandy · March 10th, 2005, 03:23 PM

Ok, I will look into a Fresnel screen, but aren't they quite expensive? Do you have a source or a url for one? Where in the mix should I put the Fresnel screen as well?

1) ACTION > Fresnel > GG > Camera

2) ACTION > GG > Fresnel > Camera

Thanks

Leo Mandy · March 10th, 2005, 05:00 PM

Are macro's supposed to do this or look like this without the DOF lenses?

http://dvstuff.250free.com

I am again at a standstill. When I use the 7+, I get better sharpness and less blurriness, but then I get vignetting because I cannot focus in far enough.

Dan Diaconu · March 10th, 2005, 08:16 PM

Leo,

1 Macro is for close-up image not for landscape (like reading glasses that some of us start using at one point)

2 Fresnel IS the GG!
ACTION>35mm lens>FRESNEL>Camera

3 They are not expensive. The best is Beattie @ $85. You can buy less expensive but.... you get what you pay for. It WILL take care of the hotspot!!!!!!!!!!!

I have done enough explicit testing with pics and clips on my site. (Some people asked my why does my site look the way it does....) I have start wondering why as well.........
Check them out while they are still there:

http://dandiaconu.com/gallery/albums/Brightnes-tests/fourth_brightness_test_avi.wmv

http://dandiaconu.com/gallery/albums/Brightnes-tests/brightness_test_of_four_screens.wmv

each @ 1Mb

One ordinary GG, one very fine grit GG, one ordinary Fresnel screen and the brightest is Beattie.

March 8th, 2005, 09:01 PM	#16
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	Hey Dan, Here is a picture of my converter : http://dvstuff.250free.com/convert.htm IS this what you are talking about?

March 9th, 2005, 12:33 AM	#17
Dan Diaconu Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 804	No Leo, that is indeed a converter but goes behind the lens. I was talking about this one: http://www.centuryoptics.com/products/prodv/xl1/16x_tele-converter/index.htm

March 9th, 2005, 09:58 AM	#18
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	Ok, I will look into that. For now, here is the blurriness problem I am talking about. http://dvstuff.250free.com I have it down to few causes : 1) I am not zoomed in far enough - therefore getting the blurriness from the CD spinning near the edges of the frame. 2) hotspot causing blurriness (hence the need for a condenser) 3) Bad CD/GG Any more suggestions?

March 9th, 2005, 11:51 AM	#19
Dan Diaconu Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 804	If you can get a sharp image (in the center) the CD is good enough. Hotspot will always be there using a GG instead of a Fresnel focusing screen. The hotspot however will be less obvious when extracting a smaller section of the image in the center like 18/24mm or so. Zoom in the image, move the camcorder farther away from the GG and stay away from any CU lens (if possible)

March 9th, 2005, 02:31 PM	#20
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	I am in the process of trying another GG to see what transpires. Right now I am using the Macro 10+, the camera about 4 inches away. I really can't get farther away with that lens - but I will try with the 7+ and see what happens. Do you have any idea why it would be doing this Dan? Nice and crisp in the center but blurring at the edges? PS - I am zoomed in as far as I can go right now.

March 9th, 2005, 02:54 PM	#21
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	A quick update : http://dvstuff.250free.com I have changed the 10+ to a 7+ and it is definitely and noticeably better. I am wondering why a macro lens would do this? Should I get a less amount, maybe a 4+ to get even cleaner and sharper image??!?

March 9th, 2005, 03:00 PM	#22
Aaron Shaw Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 587	The stronger the lens the more distortion and softness you will get towards the edges. Just one of those trade offs really. You can get highly corrected lenses but these usually cost a fair amount of money (though they can provide superb results).

March 9th, 2005, 03:01 PM	#23
Dan Diaconu Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 804	Try it, but the tele-converter will get you "closer" WITHOUT the color fringes. (no short cuts for a good image) Test one in a retail store and see if it makes a diff.

March 9th, 2005, 03:22 PM	#24
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	I just called a store and they said they don't have a tele-converter for my DV cam (which is a 43mm thread) and when I asked for a step-down ring for it - he said they didn't make Tele-converters that small...so I am not sure whether he just doesn't know what he is talking about or what.

March 9th, 2005, 04:59 PM	#25
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	Drop down to the 7+ and wow! What a difference! This is great. Now I am getitng what I want -- clear and crisp. I am going to send back the 10+ 7+ and get the 1+2+4+ and see the results.

March 10th, 2005, 09:48 AM	#26
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	Here is a still of the 7+, still major hotspoting which I want to get rid of and some vignetting - but alot better. Going to buy a condenser lens from Anchor optics and see if this helps. http://dvstuff.250free.com And one more update with a video as well. It is getting better, but still the hotspot issue and maybe Focal Range - check out the trees in the very background (jpg) - does that look like my Focal length is out a little bit?

March 10th, 2005, 11:05 AM	#27
Dan Diaconu Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 804	Leo, that looks familiar..... http://dandiaconu.com/gallery/Brightnes-tests/IMGA0249 Best you can do is zoom-in and move the camcorder as further back as you can. A condenser lens will not remove the hotspot. Save your money. Only Fresnel focusing screen does that. Buy one, (it will be a big revelation), or get a second hand SLR (whatever the brand) and remove the focusing screen, see the diff.

March 10th, 2005, 03:23 PM	#28
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	Ok, I will look into a Fresnel screen, but aren't they quite expensive? Do you have a source or a url for one? Where in the mix should I put the Fresnel screen as well? 1) ACTION > Fresnel > GG > Camera 2) ACTION > GG > Fresnel > Camera Thanks

March 10th, 2005, 05:00 PM	#29
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	Are macro's supposed to do this or look like this without the DOF lenses? http://dvstuff.250free.com I am again at a standstill. When I use the 7+, I get better sharpness and less blurriness, but then I get vignetting because I cannot focus in far enough.

March 10th, 2005, 08:16 PM	#30
Dan Diaconu Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 804	Leo, 1 Macro is for close-up image not for landscape (like reading glasses that some of us start using at one point) 2 Fresnel IS the GG! ACTION>35mm lens>FRESNEL>Camera 3 They are not expensive. The best is Beattie @ $85. You can buy less expensive but.... you get what you pay for. It WILL take care of the hotspot!!!!!!!!!!! I have done enough explicit testing with pics and clips on my site. (Some people asked my why does my site look the way it does....) I have start wondering why as well......... Check them out while they are still there: http://dandiaconu.com/gallery/albums/Brightnes-tests/fourth_brightness_test_avi.wmv http://dandiaconu.com/gallery/albums/Brightnes-tests/brightness_test_of_four_screens.wmv each @ 1Mb One ordinary GG, one very fine grit GG, one ordinary Fresnel screen and the brightest is Beattie.