cheap vibrating GG mechanism
 

When testing the vibrating GG, there is a really cheap way to make the grain disappear. I built it on the cup35 design using rubber bands, beads for spacing (the straight type found at Walmart), and a pager motor. It works good, no grain.

I also have another working design using the rubber part of the injection syringe, rubber gommets and also with a pager vibrating motor. This design is a little more complicated but not too hard to make. All of these fit inside a 2.5" square aluminum tube.

My XL1 is down so I cannot record any footage now. My VX2000 order is on the way. Hopefully I will have some to show next week.

Quyen,
Its nice to hear you have a working design. I wonder, would you be willing to go into detail about how your design works? Maybe some pictures.

I am at the stage where I have a working adapter but want to change to a moving ground glass to remove the grain.

If you could share your design that would be great.

Thanks,
Wayne.

Yes, I am going to share all info I have. I am now going to make it nicer. When it's done, I will post step by step with pictures so you all can enjoy. I don't know if anybody have webspace so I can post pictures and video when it's done, please let me know, thanks.

Quyen: I am interested in your setup also! Please keep us posted.
Thank you!

Quyen,
If you help us by sharing your info, I would be happy to host your pictures and video on my webspace.

Look foward to seeing your design....

Wayne.

Yes, I will be posting pictures soon. I am working on a final product. There are still some parts on order. I just don't want to show my prototype, it's a big mess. Please help me on hosting my pictures and videos, my email quyentle@hotmail.com if you want to send me your account info, thanks.

Quyen

Call the cynics and hoist the BS flag! Where's Oscar??


Good job, Quyen. Can't wait to see it.

Bill, when he said "no grain", I think he meant "no visible grain". Anyway Quyen what scream (cough, cough...) screen are you using?

I use homemade gg, 600 grit.

Ok, no visible grain. That's still blasphemy around here. So run the BS flag and attack this guy in normal fashion! (excluding you, Dan, LOL)

Why leave me out of it? Ya think I'm to old for a scrap, don't ya? >(;-[(< (heavy breathing....off screen)

Hi Bill,

Do you want to see or just don't believe? My point is to make something affordable that people can use and still get professional result. If you doubt about my ability, check out the XL1 FD or XL1 EF adapter that are selling on ebay. I don't say anything unless I can prove it. Have a good day.

Quyen

Sorry Quyen, I sincerely apologize for the confusion. I want to see and I do believe you. I should have explained that I was being sarcastic; I saw some raw footage (it was like a 400 meg file) of a static adapter with an unknown type of screen (though I do know what it's NOT made of) and I posted what I saw - no grain - and I was bashed pretty hard.

So my intention was to poke some fun at the group in general who have made their minds up to be cynical before they have seen proof one way or the other.

I did not mean to poke fun at you: I really admire your idea because rather than build something very complex that has a very controlled oscillating movement on eccentrics or offset dowels, etc, you solved it elegantly by using a pager to provide the eccentric motion. Now THAT is the spirit of creative thinking and I admire your abilities. I wish I had done it first! :)

Dan I am leaving you out of it because you are the least cynical and most actively experimental of any of us when it comes to that stuff. I've never seen you to be negative or cynical when you didn't have knowledge of something. To be brutally honest, you are not very good at offending people. We Americans and Euros are better at it. Stick to cameras.

;-)

Quyen,
Not sure if you have msn messenger, but i have added you to my list. You can then send me for files that need hosting and ill upload them for you.

I am very interested in seeing your final design.

Wayne.

Pager Motor
 

Quyen,

You mentioned 'pager motor' in your system. Is it the little vibrating motor with an eccentric shaft?

If so, I am wondering if it causes Z-axis displacement of the GG due to the vibration?

You might come up with genius solution for this, or it just doesn't cause any Z-axis hustle...

Well, I'm wondering. Someone help me please.

Akira

I've tested this few months before and if well done, no visible Z axis movement. I had just problem with real circular motion (motion was eliptical, triangular and whatever together :))) - but who cares, because works anyway. Next problem I was facing was gravity and fast camera movement. I am wonder if the desing is similar.
Keep working... ;-)

Akira,

That was my concern too when I use pager motor. I don't see it has any affect to the image at all in Z axis. I think I should let people here in the forum to judge my design and video when it's ready. I know that I might miss something that I don't pay attention to or don't aware of. Please help me to make the design working for the people here in this forum. I do need your help.

Bill

Thank you for your explaination and email. I stand tough and don't have any hard feeling at all. I get used to it. One of my customer wants a full refund with shipping and handling because he thought it another way and then gave me a bad feedback, I don't bother explain it. I know that if my design proven working, it will hurt people spending time to make the adapter commercially and I expect those people will come in and attack my idea. I stand tough and I will share my info no matter what.

I am still testing my unit to come up with measurements and still trying to find stuff at Home Depot that can be used on the design to help people to build and test it too. My intention is to use cheap and available items to replace a hard to make shafts and bearings. I have kids to take care of and I have about 2-3 hours a day to build my unit, so please be patience, thanks.

Quyen

Hurry Up
 

OK I have one more test and then I quit. I have spent more then a year and much money and am very very tired. Anyway hurry up and someone please make a design that works. OK and that’s cheap as well… as for my last test I tried spinning lexan glass that I hand ground for the GG… Image is too soft… Lexan is a soft material and just made the image muddy...Anyway I got one more breath.

Pager Motor Z-axis thing
 

Quyen,

Bringing up the motor Z-axis thing again.
I was thinking that usually this type of vibrator motors are very small I guess it's like 5mm Dia x 15mm length or something. And vibration is very minute in terms of Z-axis movement.

I guess people are saying No to the Virator motor set up because of Z-axis displacement, but it might be small enough not to destroys the focus.
I don't know, I'm just wondering and hoping. But If so, as long as you fix the motor body part really tight and stable, my guess is possible.

However I think most of the vibrator motors are brush motor, it makes noise, and we will have heat problem for long period continous use.
This might be pain in the arse.

Let's assume you sort out the noise and heat and Z-axis.
What about applying to WAX-Condenser Sandwich like Oscar's.
Wax seems to be very promising but it seems you can't close the iris too much.

And in the vibrator motor set up, if you install the GG into the cylinder case, Almost the same diameter but the case has very minute tolerance like 0.2mm or something, and fix the lens in order to have zero Z-axis movement in the case. Having tolerence on X-Y-Axis, then the vibrator motor touches the side of the GG (onto X-Y axis) This way, because of tolerance, X-Y axis have freemovement, and vibration force will be directed at X-Y, not towards Z.

Having said that, it needs precision machining and if you can afford one, you might as well go for 3 eccentric shaft driven oscillation method!

Akira Ando

You never seen the design and talk about it like you have seen it.
This design don't need precision machining, just any drill press will work. Hand drill also works if you know how to drill straight hole.

Noise is not a big problem. I tried this morning and I hardly hear any noise from the motor. Motor size is 7mm x 21mm and mounted perpendicular to the GG plain. There is no Z-axis moving at all.

As for wax screen, I hope that someone will come up with an easy to do method that can make a perfect focus screen. I have tried it and have to admit that I can't make a perfect one.

I will try to take picture of my prototype later today since people are waiting for it. Sorry for the wait.

Wayne Kinney,

My MSN doesn't work. Do you have anyway to post the pictures? Thanks.

Quyen

I can host them on my site Quyen. Email me the gif/jpegs and I'll make a new album.
setarcos@shaw.ca
Edited latter: make sure you have the text/description for each pic so all I have to do is "copy/paste"

Quyen,
Email me the pictures at waynekinney@hotmail.com and ill host them for you mate. Ill upload them and email you the links to them. I am REALLY looking foward to seeing your design.

Thanks,
Wayne

Thank you Dan, Wayne.

Below are pictures of the designs. No detail instruction yet. I used CD Rom motor instead of pager motor on the first design.
Second design using rubber bands, looks ugly but works.
I am working on the newer version using 2 1/2" square aluminum tube and pager motor. I will post pictures when I have it ready.
http://nuocsong.com/nhatho/adapter/01a.JPG
http://nuocsong.com/nhatho/adapter/02a.JPG
http://nuocsong.com/nhatho/adapter/03a.JPG
http://nuocsong.com/nhatho/adapter/04a.JPG
http://nuocsong.com/nhatho/adapter/05a.JPG
Hope you can get something out of these pictures.

Quyen

P.S. Wayne, I thought you have been busy so I post the pictures instead. Thanks.

Misspell
 

I think I misspell Grommets with gommets. Sorry.

Quyen

Quyen,
I have uploaded the pictures for you and emailed you the links but looks like you have beaten me to it:)

The designs look interesting but hard to see how it works exactly. We all look foward to detailed intructions and pictures on your new design. That is something that very few people with a working adapter do on here, but would go a long way to helping people out. Keep up the good work there, Quyen!!!

Cheers,
Wayne.

As you see on this picture http://nuocsong.com/nhatho/adapter/02a.JPG, there is motor from CD drive with some eccentric thing attached on its axle. Whole GG with motor is attached on some plate which is moveable. In short - whole top is shaking in circles. Because of inertia and gyroscopic effect its moving in circle.
I have tried very similar design. I took GG and attached motor to it (I made a hole in GG and put motor axle through it). Motor was from mobile phone. I Glued it together and by pieces of rubbers attached on some plane. I had a small problem with getting really circular motion, because of gravity and weight of setup - if the motor and GG is heavy, its hard to get any motion. Also vibrations was to big. I am afraid for lots of people with heavy setups (Glassy GG with heavy condensers...) this will not work :-(. As you could see on videos I posted before, its bad if the motion si too linear (point to point). But you are on perfect way. Hard mounts with shafts are heavy, noisy and hard to do yourself. I hope I am wrong and you will find the way for heavy setup too... Test it in horizontal (working) position.

I thought I should put all the info and video together before sharing but the demand is high so I decided to show the pictures of my very first prototype. I have to work on very detailed info such as what kind of glass I use or all the measurements of what the drill bit size I use for each hole or part number or the size of plastic using for GG plain ... I did tested it on horizontal position before saying that it's working. please be patience since I don't have much time everyday to work on the project.

The motion of the GG is not perfect circular motion but not too linear. I try to make the unit as compact as possible so I use all the light and small parts. I think if people want to follow my setup, they should go the path I go since I will give all the detailed info on how to make GG, what material to use ... If people want to keep their setup, it's their choice and I am afraid I cannot help.

Once again, please be patience since I need time to put all the info together with video and instructions. I hope that you can get some info out of the pictures that I posted.

Quyen

First Shot
 

Hi all,

Below is the link to down load my first shot using my adapter. There will be 2 files in the zip file. 1 is video and 1 is audio. I use on camera mic, very quiet. I turn it of and on couple of times to show grain of the gg, it doesn't show it the way I expect to see. Encoded pictures doesn't show circular movements that I want to show. Still a little vignetting. Overall size of adapter is 2.5"x2.5"x3.5", pretty small compare to other. Camera using is VX2000. I will take picture of my adapter later.

http://www.nuocsong.com/nhatho/adapter/firstshot.zip

Quyen

I love it! that looks great - what are you using, just PVC pipe?
What are the beads use for? Spacing for focal length?
Also, you seemed to have two rigs that - one that is rectangular and one that is round? Is that right?
Also, looking at pic1 and pic4 - are you using the rubber bands to hold the GG in pic 4, where you are using silicone or something to hold the GG in place in pic1?

Awesome, just awesome! More details please...

Mvp
 

What do you use to view mvp files? I downloaded the clip, but i can't open it?

Mine worked in media player 7

Mandy,

The rubber band version is just for "quick fix". People can try it instantly but it looks ugly and I think it won't last. The second version is far better and I build it inside the 2.5" square tube. I use mostly custom parts I made from my shop. I am thinking of getting conventional parts that can be bought at the store such as Home Depot or online ... I will upload the picture of my adapter later. Thanks.

Quyen

Picture of Adapter on Camera
 

Below is the picture of my adapter on VX2000 with 50mm 1.4 Canon FD lens

http://www.nuocsong.com/nhatho/adapter/adapter.JPG

Enjoy,

Quyen

i should say it is really convincing.
obviously your GG is low quality (when stopped) and the result (when shaked) is really great.
currently , i am obtaining with my static GG something close of what you get when vibrated, but i am looking for HDV, so it i really need to move my GG a way or another.
now we are started for a new thread about comparing different kind of gums, plastics, silicon (my best guess) to do the job.
I think i will try with another actuator type (motor are too heavy and big)
something like the crystal of some headphone (if i still can find some) or other piezo stuff with an simple oscillator should be better, especially you can put several of them to shake in several directions.
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bi...115&type=store

if you are looking for more serious device , google with "piezo actuator"

More pictures
 

http://www.nuocsong.com/nhatho/adapter/top.JPG
http://www.nuocsong.com/nhatho/adapter/front.JPG
http://www.nuocsong.com/nhatho/adapter/back.JPG

More to come, enjoy.

Quyen

The BACK picture does not work. Maybe a spelling error or capitalization? The link is not working at all.

Giroud Francois

The pager motor is not heavy, it's 2.9 gr. I like the coin type motor. I have a quote of 100 of the 10mm 3v motors for about 3.75 each plus shipping. I think it's perfect for this setup. The one on the website you posted is .55" diameter, it's a little too big.

Mandy

The link is fixed.

Below are info of my adapter.
Grommet used. MR 200-1097 at
https://www.westernrubber.com/mainframe2.aspx
Drill size use for syringe's rubber: .154
Drill size use to mount grommets: 15/64
Drill size for 7mm motors: .272 (size I)
Distance between lens and GG 1.65"
Tube size is 2.5" square with 1/8 wall thickness. Length will depend on what condenser you use and what camera you use. Mine is 3".
GG is half of microscope slice.
Ground Glass plain is 2.1" square .065 thick with cut out 1.5"x1" at the center

I will have more pictures with details next week when I have time.

Please ask question and I will try to answer, that way you will know my design better, I don't know where you really don't understand with my design. Thanks.

Quyen

i think you can explain your system like this.

imagine a table (flat plane over four feet).
when all is ok, the table is rock steady.
now imagine the joint between the flat surface of the table and the feet is loose.
If you shake the table (putting an electrix mixer on it for example), it start to move and shake .
There is almost no vertical movement, since the horizontal movement is very small versus the length of the feet (and this is something you should keep in mind, do not make the feet to short).

I am a little confused about the picture -
1) do you have a counter weight on the motor to give more of a circular motion?
2) I have a CD motor that I have tried what you are doing and found that it didn't seem to have enough power to vibrate the GG in any real manner.
3) Is the motor sealed GG base - so when the motor is on, the entire piece vibrates?
4) What GG are you using?

Thanks Quyen for bringing us an awesome version of the vibrating GG!

Looking forward to the answers.

Mandy

1. I use pager motor now and it has off set weight to make it vibrate.
2. What you use to mount the GG base on matter the most. I used to mount it on 4 of the 1/8 plastic without any rubber and it didn't work at all.
3. Yes.
4. GG is half of microscope slice using 600 grit stone stumbling powder.
Hope my answers can help you figure out where the problem is, thanks.

I did some more testing and put 100mm condenser before GG. Camera [) (]GG 35mm lens. The distance between 2 condensers is under 1 inch. No more vignetting. Very slight barrel distortion (don't see it if don't pay attention to it). Focus is sharp. I will do some more testing and will post video on when I have time. Please tell me what to test and I will do it, thanks.

Quyen