I'm ruining a lot of dynamic shots because of this cheap (but very portable) Benro tripod I'm currently using for shooting with my GH4 around town when I'm riding my bicycle. (living in Amsterdam)

So I'm looking to buy something that is relatively light and portable and will get me some nice fluid pan or tilt shots. Preferably under $1000 or is that too much to ask? I borrowed a Sachtler ACE (simplest one, I believe) from a friend but both legs fell off... the head felt good, though, for the 30 seconds I used it...

Maybe the head with different legs? Something similar? Or was my friend's copy of the ACE a dud and do others have better experience with this system?

Sachtler ACE (simplest one, I believe) from a friend but both legs fell off... the head felt good, though, for the 30 seconds I used it...

Seriously? In it's price range the Sachtler ace is one of the better tripods but I have to say I don't use it while riding a bike :)

Seriously? In it's price range the Sachtler ace is one of the better tripods but I have to say I don't use it while riding a bike :)

Yeah, the legs were awful- and not just for riding. You pay €600 and no wheels included..?!

Do you own an ACE?

I own this tripod. Head is awesome for the price. Legs are terrible. I've glued mine to fix them but looking for leg replacement.

I own this tripod. Head is awesome for the price. Legs are terrible. I've glued mine to fix them but looking for leg replacement.

Yes, I've read some bad stuff about the legs but you never know if it's just a few people having bad luck. Apparently not. Can't believe Sachtler produces them.

Can you by the head separate? Any advice on alternative sticks?

Do you own an ACE?

Yes, I really like the tripod head and don't have issues with the legs, they work fine for me.

I've been using the Sachtler FSB-6 and FSB-4 with Gitzo legs. It's a good combination, in fact it's the one piece of video gear I have not had any urge to change. I don't remember how the Ace head attaches to the tripod, but if it's like the FSB-series, I recommend looking at the Gitzo legs. I have two sets of the carbon-fiber type. What you want is the type that can be adapted to either accept a flat-top insert for stills head attachment, and also accept a video leveling ball type head.

Mark

Edit: Just confirmed the Ace is mounted via 75mm bowl. The Gitzo version you want is the Systematic one. Then get the bowl adapter for the fluid head.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/846213-REG/Gitzo_GT3542LS_GT3542XLS_6x_4_SECTION_SYSTEMATIC.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/898106-REG/Gitzo_gs3321v75_Video_Adapter_75mm_Ser.html

I'll be following this thread closely. I too have a GH4 & am currently using it with a Sachtler DV10SB head on Gitzo legs. Absolutely bomber setup. The problem for me though, is that when i only have the camera with a light lens mounted to it, the head is way too much. Great with my 150-600mm mounted to it, but i'd love to find a head that will handle the (roughly) 1 pound weight of the camera with a light lens mounted, up to the 5 odd pounds with my heaviest telephoto lens mounted, as well as having the option to add more weight if i end up adding other kit.
I like the specs of the Sachtler Ace L head, Just a little weary of something that cheap. Can it really feel like a higher end Sachtler? If anyone here has used a Sachtler Ace L & any of the FSB or DV heads, i would love to hear your opinion of the Ace head in comparison.
I also have a Miller DS10 with carbon fiber solo legs. A great setup, but still too much counter balance for the camera with a light lens.

I haven't used the Ace, but just from playing with them in the stores, the movement/action of the head (no camera on it) felt like the FSB-4. The load capacity of the Ace L is 13.2 Lbs, which is identical to the load capacity of the FSB-6, and the Ace M matches up with the FSB-4 at 8.8 Lbs. max. So maybe the guts are the same. For use with the FDR-AX100 (2 Lbs), the FSB-4 is great. The GH4 being about 20 oz. bare bones, should work with the Ace M (0.0 - 8.8 Lbs), and you get the leeway to use heavy lenses. The FDR-AX100 took a little too much effort with the FSB-6, felt like I might tilt the whole tripod when trying to tilt the camera down at a sharp angle.

Mark

Thanks Mark,
Very useful information. I may have to look more seriously at the Ace L by the sound of it. As far as i know, the Ace L also starts at 0lb load rating with a "0" counter balance setting. (something that the DV10 is supposed to have according to the specs, but doesn't). The extra weight rating of the "L" would allow me to use a lightweight travel jib too.
Regards,
Bryce

This is not totally off-topic here...

I have the Sony X70 which is about 3 pounds - I occasionally add another couple of pounds of stuff.

I have the Sachtler Ace M and it's by far the best tripod I've ever used. But, I still have some stability issues and sometimes get some kickback on pans, etc. I often do closeup shots of artwork where the small irregularities really show up. I'm a serious amateur in my early sixties, so do not need something that will last me 20 years necessarily :-)

My budget has now changed and I can afford to put $1K to $2K into a better tripod. I've always read that the Sachtler Ace M head is very good, and that it's the sticks that cause some of these issues. I don't use mine heavily enough to have yet seen any durability issues with the legs as mentioned here.

In this thread Mark Watson recommended getting an approx. $1K set of Gitzo legs and a 75mm ball adapter and using the Sachtler Ace M head.

So, I'm looking at several options...

Sachtler's FSB-6 System for about $2K

sachtler 0475 fsb-6 | B&H Photo Video (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=sachtler+0475+fsb-6&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ps)

Or the Ace L for about $1300

Sachtler System Ace L TT 75/2 CF Carbon Fiber Tripod 1013 B&H


Or just keeping my Ace head and adding the recommended Gitzo sticks with ball adapter for about $1100?:

Gitzo Series 3 6X Systematic Carbon Fiber Tripod (Long) GT3542LS

Gitzo SYSTEMATIC 75mm Bowl Head Adapter for Series 2, GS3321V75


Any thoughts are greatly appreciated. Is the $2K solution really a lot better than the other options? With this budget, what others I should be considering?

I've only used Sachtler all my life and was very happy. However, after trying out the ACE at NAB this year, I was not impressed. FSB-6 and 8 felt good. I went over to the Really Right Stuff booth. I never heard of them. I tried out their FH-350 head on their sticks and was totally blown away. In my opinion, this is the setup for every pro videographer with a smallish camera! These are engineered and made in America. When I need another tripod, Really Right Stuff is what I'll get. There are no plastic parts here!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUJnrt1NjKqW01PZb3wBhPEQ&t=59&v=n6KFSWa4EjU

When I need another tripod, Really Right Stuff is what I'll get.

If only we could get it for the Really Right Price...

Thanks for the info, but I'm going to limit myself to things from B&H so that I can easily return them if I choose to.

I'm now also considering keeping my Ace M head but getting Miller Solo DV carbon fiber legs like the $750 2-stage.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/293495-REG/Miller_1501_SOLO_DV_Carbon_Fiber.html

Hi David................

Pushed for time, so only one thing to say - Don't! Yet.

More later.


CS

Chris - I assume that means you have more info to give me when time allows. That's great!

I'm not in any huge rush - when it's convenient.

Thanks!

Chris - I assume that means you have more info to give me when time allows. That's great!

I'm not in any huge rush - when it's convenient.

Thanks!

It probably means he's selling his tripod...

I borrowed an "Ace" kit from Sachtler to take on a trip to Brazil. Filming wildlife, mainly birds. Not happy with it. Had to put the head onto some old Gitzo legs I had with me and eventually swapped the head for a cheapo Chinese made one I had with me as a spare.

I own a Sachtler DVS 6, quite old now but a lovely head which I use on my ancient Gitzo 1325 legs BUT heavy and a bit too much for a GH4 unless I have my 800mm lens attached. I only ever use this now from inside a vehicle or a public hide. Too much to cart about.

I've gone quite off Manfrotto.

I also have a Vinten Vision 6 on aluminium legs. Again heavy and over the top for a GH4 apart from when I have the 800 attached.

I'm looking at a Libec Allex, head more interesting to me than the legs and a lot more interesting than the complete kit plus slider. Not much in it price wise between the head and the head and legs. Portable enough for my needs particularly with a GH4 and 80-400 Nikkor with a monitor attached to the tripod or in a "stone bag" rather than to the camera.

Ron

Apologies for that cliff hanger, had "stuff" which wasn't taking "no" for an answer.

OK David, where to start.

I have no experience with the Sachtler Ace system but everything I've read about the accompanying sticks seems to be less than spectacular. They (Sachtler) do make some seriously good heads however, whether the Ace is one such I simply don't know.

As it was the sticks in particular you weren't over the moon about I ran through my known list of possible replacements and ended up with just one set that I could unhesitatingly recommend - the Vinten 3819 - 3's as are parked under the entry level Vision Blue system.

[Note: I did consider the Manfrotto 546's that I reviewed a few years back; they're nearly as rigid as the Vintens BUT have what is quite possibly the crankiest spreader in the known universe and from reading some owners comments have a nasty habit of exploding leg locks, not really where you want to go]

I was going to suggest the Vinten a few days ago but when I checked the price at b&h they were about $986 without a mid spreader, $1301 with the V4032 el cheapo one, at which point I stopped as it was a bit of a punt for the money.

However, having seen the sticks you were finally considering I thought I'd put my oar in as IMHO they are an even bigger punt than the Vintens.

In a nutshell the Solo's are a 1:1:1 tube system with concentric leg locks - the 1:1:1 means that their rotational rigidity is not the best and the concentric leg locks will eventually require you to get PTSD counselling.

The Vintens are heavier but have a 2:2:1 tube configuration with Pozi-Loc 90 degree locks - infinitely more rigid and faster to set up than concentric locks.

The only reason I can't, hand on heart, recommend a full Vision Blue system is that your 3 lb camera weight is ringing alarm bells even with a Vinten Small Camera Adapter parked between the camera and head.

However, if it did work the diffence between that $1301 sticks/ spreader price and the $1427 full VB system price is so measly you'd be mad to NOT go for the full deal.

However, you needn't risk your cash finding out the hard way IF Vinten is still offering their "try before you buy" deal where if it doesn't suit you simply pay the return shipping back to Vinten.

Fire a mail to Philip Dalgoutte - Philip.Dalgoutte@VitecGroup.com (Vintens Product Manager) and ask him to organize a VB system complete with a SCA. Give it a whirl with both your Ace head and the VB and see how it works.

If the Ace head behaves and the VB doesn't with that 3 lb load I'd still plump for the complete rig in case you get a heavier camera or the GH4 hits the pretzels and stacks on a bit around the hips. The $120 difference between the sticks & spreader price and the full rig means the VB head is practically free when the case cost is factored in. Heck you could even sell it, come to that.

What will not let you down is those Vinten sticks - you want rigid, rigid they got.

I'll stay tuned for the next exciting episode.

Regards,


CS

Wow, a lot to digest here.

The Vinten package includes an $878 head, $986 tripod, $315 spreader, and even a $338 case, all for $1517 including the Small Camera Adapter.

OTOH, the Miller Solos get a lot of rave reviews, are lighter, and go higher and lower.

However I really want the rock solid pans and tilts, and the Vinten seems to be the way to go for that. I will ponder some more and may order one to try with both the Vinten head and my existing Ace head. I do plan to get a heavier camera later - looking seriously at the DVX200 if the images are as good as the specs.

Thanks for the info and I'll post here with results.

David,
Part of the reason that the Miller solo legs go so high is because the legs aren't spread apart too far in their highest setting. That means that the base is much smaller & more prone to tipping over. While this has never happened to me, i just wanted to point out that is in part, how they go as high as they do. If you think you would use the tripod in its lowest point, then the flexibility of this type of tripod is a good choice. Keep in mind what Chris mentioned though with regards to the concentric leg locks, they definitely are slower to operate, since you may find yourself adjusting 6 of them for any given shot on uneven terrain!
There are other choices as Mark pointed out, with Gitzo & Really Right Stuff making some awesome legs in the same style as the Solo's. I have both the CF Solo legs you linked to, & also a set of Gitzo CF in a far beefier build. I love them, & have never had any issue with wind up on pans or tilts, but i do make sure i have the spiked feet bedded firmly in the ground (outdoors of course!)
If the majority of your work is on relatively flat ground, & you don't have to lug the tripod too far, don't have to go too high, or too low, then there are lots more options to choose from.
Regards,
Bryce

OK, after Chris's great reply I'm wincing as I write this, but...

As a non-pro one man band shooter, I keep getting drawn to the light weight and quick ultra-low adjustability of those Miller Solo legs. Despite being single sticks with no spreader, out of 10 reviews at B&H only one even remotely mentions any issues with "torsional flex."

So I've decided to get those legs and try them with my Sachtler Ace M head. If they don't solve my issues, I'll send them back and spring for the full Vinten Vision Blue - head and all. You do get a lot more than just legs with that package, but still it's twice the cost and more than twice the weight, so I'm saving that as Plan B.

Thanks again for all the information found in this thread!

David

Do keep us posted about your discoveries. Not being familiar with your (current) chosen sticks it's always good to get feedback from others in how kit behaves.

Good luck.


CS

Quick update. After more reading, mainly in older posts here, I've ordered the Manfrotto 535 CF legs instead of the Miller solo to try with my Sachtler Ace M head. It's considered to be a pretty good lightweight head, and some say it's the same as the FSB-4. The Manfrotto legs are generally considered to be the same as the Sachtler TT 75/2, only without the S and the red leg locks :-).

A lot of people find Manfrotto overrated, but these legs seem to be an exception. Compared to the Millers these are $100 less, have quick release locks, go a few inches higher, almost as low, and weigh .5 pound less.

I still may end up with the Vinten, but this will be more versatile for me if it gives me the control I need.

I'll keep you posted.

I did get the Manfrotto 535 3-section CF tripod legs and really like them. They are definitely better than the Sachtler Ace M legs and do reduce the kickback I was getting on pans.

However - the difference is not night and day. If zoomed in close doing panning I still get a touch of kickback, but it's now easily covered by just keeping my hand on the handle after the move. For some, the noticeable reduction (but not total elimination) of kickback might not be worth $650. But for me, that reduction is combined with the Manfrotto legs being lighter plus going much lower and higher. The height is crazy - I'm 6'2" and the center of the camera lens is right at the top of my head, and by reducing the leg spread in a pinch I could eke out 3-4 more inches.

So, this did give me a nice upgrade for the price, and I'm keeping the sticks.