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Old June 22nd, 2004, 08:21 PM   #106
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XL1S introduced in July 2001, that's right. That was my stupid mistake, sorry.
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Old June 22nd, 2004, 09:13 PM   #107
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I search the xl2 wishlist & couldn't find this question so I thought area 51 is a good place :)


Will the XL2 use ccd or cmos technology?


Could Canon just hack their own technology, ie using the cmos chip they put in the 10D?

Increase the fps from 3fps (As it currently is implemented in the 10D) to either 24, 25 or 30 fps

Then compress it to HDV like the JVC to use mini-dv tapes.

Or offer a way to capture uncompressed 6.3 megapixel video to a terabyte firestore :)
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Old June 22nd, 2004, 09:22 PM   #108
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Here is what the XL2 frame grabs should look like:

(from a canon 10d)

http://www.pbase.com/image/26211947
http://www.pbase.com/image/26211694
http://www.pbase.com/image/26259572
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Old June 22nd, 2004, 09:44 PM   #109
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I know a guy who knows a guy whose cousin is a janitor at Canon in Tokyo and from what I hear Canon is going to announce on July 1st that they are getting out of the prosumer camcorder market for good...

If he's right --- and I hear that he's a very savvy janitor --- that will mean that the XL1S will be the last high-end Canon prosumer camcorder made...

Better get them while you can!

;o)
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Old June 22nd, 2004, 09:59 PM   #110
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All I know is, the DVX100A is killing Canon in profits.

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Old June 22nd, 2004, 10:08 PM   #111
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Current sales revenues of the DVX are probably exceeding those of the XL1S by a wide margin. It's a chic camera (with good reason).

Gross profits, however, are quite a separate matter. As the XL1 system has many more branded accessories than the DVX, my off-hand guess would be that Panasonic has a long, long way to go to match the profits that Canon has enjoyed from the XL1 system.
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Old June 22nd, 2004, 10:25 PM   #112
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"Will the XL2 use ccd or cmos technology?"


Rumor has it that there is a good chance it will be a 3 chip CMOS camera. But again, that is just rumor.

Of course, I don't really know how that will matter from a user perspective, or if it really means much of anything in relation to image quality.

I just know that's what I've heard.

-Luis
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Old June 23rd, 2004, 12:24 AM   #113
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<< the DVX100A is killing Canon in profits. >>

No, it isn't. Sales of one particular camera model do not make or break the profit margins of any multi-billion dollar corporation. See my post above, where I present the references to Canon far outstripping Matsushita's (Panasonic's) gross profit margin. For that matter, Canon makes significantly more money from the sales of single-chip camcorders than their three-chip models. For every single XL1S sold, they're also selling a few dozen ZR85's.

You can accurately say that the DVX100A is outselling the XL1S. But from that fact you cannot conclude that Canon is being "killed" in terms of profit because the XL1S is only one of hundreds of products that Canon sells. Nor can you conclude that XL1S sales are down. They're not -- they're up, because of the rebate. They're definitely not selling better than the DVX100A, but they are up.
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Old June 23rd, 2004, 12:54 AM   #114
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Rumour has it that the XL2 WAS released at NAB, but it delivered such an incredible picture, that Panasonic bought every single one from Canon before they hit the public market so that the DVX100 would still be the trendiest camera.
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Old June 23rd, 2004, 12:56 AM   #115
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I fully understand Chris here, but that also has a flip side. If the XL1s is such a small player in the overall profit of Canon then will they give it the attention and enhancments that we, as video people, would love to see?

Guess we all have to wait and we'll find out soon enough..

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Old June 23rd, 2004, 12:58 AM   #116
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The xl1s' chips are old and not the equal of the panny. Canon has to upgrade and they know it.

I'd actually be happy with a xl2 with 1/2 chips and 16x9 native. You can shoot some nice stuff with that. Perhaps the GL3 will be like that.

The panny sdx900 is 16x9 native with 2/3 chips and 24p and sells for 25k without lenses. And the footage is very equivalent to super16mm film.

I doubt Canon is going to boink that cam - at the 5k price point.
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Old June 23rd, 2004, 01:37 AM   #117
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<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Struthers : The panny sdx900 is 16x9 native with 2/3 chips and 24p and sells for 25k without lenses. And the footage is very equivalent to super16mm film. >>>

When viewed on an NTSC monitor, or projected (digitally? or after a film-out?)

It's a bold statement to claim ANY digitally originated footage as being equivalent to film, especially from a SD camera, albeit a very good one in this case. Only the highest end HD cameras such as the Dalsa can claim comparable exposure latitude.

I think the SDX900 looks great. But Super 16 is still better, and thanks to Kodak's tireless efforts to improve their stocks, the bar keeps raising.

From the few tiny little fissures of information that are leaking out of the hulking dam of secrecy that surrounds the XL2, it seems safe to say that it IS happening, and it WILL be worth the wait. I don't think it will knock the SDX900 out of the water, but it isn't in that market. The question is, will it displace the DVX100 from its current throne. I think, given the "flavor-of-the-month" environment that surrounds this class of camera (partially due to the relatively low price points), that this will be the case within six months of release.
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Old June 23rd, 2004, 08:18 AM   #118
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"I'd actually be happy with a xl2 with 1/2 chips and 16x9 native"

Really?
You'd be willing to slum it with just 1/2" chips and native 16:9 on
a $5K camera?
:)

I hope no one is holding their breath for that one to be released.


Charles said:
"it seems safe to say that it IS happening, and it WILL be worth the wait."

What exactly makes you say that it WILL be worth the wait?
I just hope that the 'dam of secrecy' as you put it hasn't caused
over-anticipation for the camera. Then again, Canon doesn't
have to do too much to regain the throne.

"The question is, will it displace the DVX100 from its current throne."

I think it is probably a given that it will displace the DVX, as long
as Canon just plays 'catch up' at a minimum. An XL with 24p, XLR
inputs, and some gamma curve control alone would beat out the
DVX (given that the XL has the interchangable lens options).

If any of the rumors of native 16:9 and possibly HDV modes are
true, then it won't take much for Canon to hit this one out of the
park.


The big point with a lot of people will be 24p. Whether or not we
all agree on 24p video, the majority of people seem to want it. If
it weren't for the 24p options on the DVX, I doubt panasonic
would be selling them so fast.
(you could say they're selling them like they're going out of style).
:)

Does anyone know who holds the patents on Panasonic's 24p?
Did they liscense that technology, or do they own it?

-Luis
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Old June 23rd, 2004, 12:37 PM   #119
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So, just how much different does video look when shot at 24p versus the 30p that the XL1S currently utilizes??? Would 24p compare at all to the Frame mode of the XL1S?

I could imagine adding a "new" Canon XL if (an important if) the video shot with one complimented and could be edited with the other without any glaring differences...

"Film Look" covers a lot of territory...

== Ed ==
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Old June 23rd, 2004, 12:44 PM   #120
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I shoot on 30p a lot and it looks great, but our 24p cameras that our students use (at the Palm Beach Film School, plug plug) look a lot like film. In that non-35 mm/non-CineAlta way. :-)

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