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AVCHD Format Discussion
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Old March 5th, 2008, 04:50 PM   #31
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Tom, that's great news. Thanks for taking the time to test this out.

Did you test this with files from the XH-A1? Does it produce a 24p in 1080/60i stream like the HG10 does? i.e. would you expect the results to be the same from HG10 files?

Thanks.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 09:11 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Amit Mantri View Post
Did you test this with files from the XH-A1? Does it produce a 24p in 1080/60i stream like the HG10 does? i.e. would you expect the results to be the same from HG10 files?

XH-A1 produces 24p in 1080/60i stream, and yes the result would be the same as HG10.
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Old April 13th, 2008, 09:12 AM   #33
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XH-A1 produces 24p in 1080/60i stream, and yes the result would be the same as HG10.
It seems that 24p from the XHA1 is not the same as from the HG10/HV20/HF100 as per this thread - http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=118309

If I understand right, is it because the 24p-in-60i stream from the XHA1 has the proper flags for pulldown while that from the others listed above does not.

If that is right then it's possible that the PS3 handles the XHA1 files correctly but results may not be the same with HG10 ones.

So my question regarding the ability of the PS3 being able to correctly deinterlace and IVTC the 60i stream (no combing or jaggies) of HG10 raw MTS files to get the original 24p stream and then output it at either 1080p24 or after doing 3:2 frame repeat at 1080p60 still stands.

so, has anyone tested playback of 24p HG10 files like Tom has confirmed with XHA1 files? Thanks.
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Old April 15th, 2008, 10:09 AM   #34
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Yes Amit, you are correct. I apologize for my gross blunder regarding 24p on HG10.

If anyone can point me to a native HG10 24p clip, I will test the deinterlace and IVTC on the PS3 and Pioneer Elite 1080p plasma monitor.
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Old April 15th, 2008, 10:37 PM   #35
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Yes Amit, you are correct. I apologize for my gross blunder regarding 24p on HG10.

If anyone can point me to a native HG10 24p clip, I will test the deinterlace and IVTC on the PS3 and Pioneer Elite 1080p plasma monitor.
No prob Tom. Thanks for offering to test this out. Here's Les Dit's HG10 24p raw MTS file which many have used as a reference for testing -

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?...82&postcount=1
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Old April 16th, 2008, 12:34 AM   #36
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Here's Les Dit's HG10 24p raw MTS file which many have used as a reference for testing -

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?...82&postcount=1

The file is played perfectly by the PS3.

The particular 1080p Pioneer plasma I used has been tested by Gary Merson to have proper deinterlacing and IVTC, so I output the file with the PS3 in the following modes:

1.) From the PS3 in 1080p24
2.) From the PS3 in 1080i60 no IVTC by Pioneer monitor
3.) From the PS3 in 1080i60 IVTC'd by the Pioneer monitor 3:2 @60hz
4.) From the PS3 in 1080i60 IVTC'd by the Pioneer monitor 3:3 @72hz

In all cases, the file played perfectly for me, whether the Pioneer monitor was handling the deinterlacing and pulldown removal, or playing directly at 24p from the PS3, it made no difference. It looked the same in all cases.

I didn't see any combing, jaggies, stairstepping, crawling ants or whatever. It was just fine.

That said, it strobes like any 24fps will.
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Old April 16th, 2008, 05:25 PM   #37
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I'm glad this thread came up, I had forgotten the PS3 can play these, if I ever knew that at all. I pulled the SD card from my HF10, popped it in and it played fine.
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Old April 17th, 2008, 09:28 PM   #38
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Great news! Thanks for the detailed testing Tom, much appeciated.

Am getting a 24p capable 1080p plasma soon (possibly the new panny 800u with 24p at 2:2 48Hz) and wanted to know for sure if the PS3 could play back my HG10 24p files.
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Old June 9th, 2008, 06:11 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Amit Mantri View Post
Great news! Thanks for the detailed testing Tom, much appeciated.

Am getting a 24p capable 1080p plasma soon (possibly the new panny 800u with 24p at 2:2 48Hz) and wanted to know for sure if the PS3 could play back my HG10 24p files.
ok, so I got my 1080p panasonic th50-pz800u plasma and hooked up a PS3 to play the 24p HG10 files via TVersity from a network share and am happy to report that it plays the 24p files flawlessly, no jaggies, combing or stairstepping, etc.

The TV is seeing a 1080p60 input though and not 1080p24 (meaning that the PS3 is IVTC'ing the 24p stream correctly out of the 60i stream and then doing 3:2 frame repeat to bring it to 60p). Not an issue because I am not seeing any 3:2 cadence issues (i don't think I am sensitive to 3:2 cadence), looks just fine.

But i'd like to try having it output 24p and then having the TV work in 2:2 48Hz mode.

Tom, you mentioned that you output the file at 1080p24 from the PS3, how was this done? I only see 1080p24 as an output option under the BD playback options (Settings > BD/DVD settings > BD 1080p 24Hz Output (HDMI)) so am assuming that this would work only via BD/DVD and NOT when playing the file over the network or USB stick.....did you play the files via a DVD (and not USB or network share)? thanks.
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Old June 11th, 2008, 01:42 PM   #40
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Tom, you mentioned that you output the file at 1080p24 from the PS3, how was this done? I only see 1080p24 as an output option under the BD playback options (Settings > BD/DVD settings > BD 1080p 24Hz Output (HDMI)) so am assuming that this would work only via BD/DVD and NOT when playing the file over the network or USB stick.....did you play the files via a DVD (and not USB or network share)? thanks.
Yes, that is correct.

1.) Use TSMuxeR (free) and choose the "Create Blu-ray Disk" option.
2.) TSMuxeR creates 3 folders, BDMV, Certificate and Audio. This structure is an AVCHD "wrapper" that contains Blu-ray authoring of mpeg2 video inside of it.
3.) Use Nero or ImgBurn to burn the folders onto regular UDF 2.5 DVD5/9 disk.
4.) On the PS3, enable 24hz HDMI Output under BD playback options.
5.) Insert the disk. It should autoplay 1080p24.

or...

You can just burn an actual Blu-ray disk if you have the burner and media.

Now the other thing to watch for, are you sure that your AVCHD stream does not already contain 2:3 pulldown flags? If it does, you're going to have to remove them from the stream if you want to see actual 24p output from the PS3.

That's how I do it because I am working with native mpeg2 streams. If your video is native AVCHD, the issue would be if it has 2:3 repeat flags within.

Please follow up here, this is very important.
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Old June 11th, 2008, 02:22 PM   #41
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I should have read your post more closely. Your video is 24p inside of 60i, or ivtc'd as you noted.

And I'm not sure about the HG10 specifically. I know it's a native AVCHD device, but I'm not sure if it contains true 24p within, or a hybrid. Eugenia has website with some information about 24p from Canon consumer camcorders.

It perhaps would be easiest to use known 24p source material, because ivtc'd streams will not invoke the PS3's 1080p24 mode.

That said, I'm not sure that the 24hz BD option on the PS3 is necessary. I would think a 24p stream from a data disk or memory stick (without repeat flags) would be sufficient if you set the Display mode on the PS3 to 1080p.

I can't test that for you, because my Pioneer 1080p plasma doesn't indicate whether the 1080p mode is 60p or 24p. But the way I can assure the PS3 output is 24p is by putting the PS3 display mode into 1080i maximum resolution and enabling the 24Hz BD mode. Thereafter if the plasma reports 1080p, it's got to be 24p.
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Old October 30th, 2009, 10:27 AM   #42
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Hey guys, I don't want to stall the ongoing 24p discussion, but since my own question is so tightly related to the thread topic I thought I should ask here instead of a new post...

I have an HF-100 and shoot 100% in 30p at maximum data rate (FXP). Currently, I've been doing the sdhc-to-disk-image-files thing, filling up my hard drives with footage that's simple to access but non-trivial to view. I would love to screen my clips easily on my Sharp AQUOS without having to hook up the camcorder itself every time.

My wife and I don't have a standalone Blu-Ray player yet, and we're also big Netflix fans, so recently we've been considering a PS3. So here's my question...

My primary desktop computer is a Mac Pro, and I've got both Snow Leopard and Windows XP on it. Using either Toast 9.0.7 or something under Windows, can I burn inexpensive, commonplace DVD-R discs (not interested in burning BD at this point) from my SDHC card images and expect them to play back smoothly and easily on the PS3?

If the answer is yes, is it even necessary to use software that burns a "Blu-Ray DVD" or can the discs I burn simply be DVD-ROM (UDF) with the exact contents of the AVCHD disk images on them?
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Old October 30th, 2009, 01:34 PM   #43
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It really is very easy. You just put any file you want on a Data DVD and the PS3 will play them flawlessly. Never mind the fact that it can also play other types of files such as HDV, DivX and WMV and put those on the Data DVD as well. For Windows, you can use something like Roxio Easy Media Creator to burn the Data DVDs.

You can also transfer them to it’s internal Hard Drive or an external Hard Drive.
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Old October 30th, 2009, 03:53 PM   #44
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I use a Canon HF10 and wonder if thy have fixed the problem of playing PAL 1920x1080i from the hard drive I tried one last year and it played the simulated blue-ray files I put on a DVD fine, but had a jitter on anything I played from the HDD at 25fps interlaced so got a Western Digital HD Media player instead that has no problems playing eveything from any usb2 flash memory or HDD and cost half the price but of course with no Blue-ray player but haven't found that any loss. as I was only interested in the Blue-ray as backup for my MTS files.
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Old October 30th, 2009, 07:30 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Wallner View Post
Hey guys, I don't want to stall the ongoing 24p discussion, but since my own question is so tightly related to the thread topic I thought I should ask here instead of a new post...

I have an HF-100 and shoot 100% in 30p at maximum data rate (FXP). Currently, I've been doing the sdhc-to-disk-image-files thing, filling up my hard drives with footage that's simple to access but non-trivial to view. I would love to screen my clips easily on my Sharp AQUOS without having to hook up the camcorder itself every time.

My wife and I don't have a standalone Blu-Ray player yet, and we're also big Netflix fans, so recently we've been considering a PS3. So here's my question...

My primary desktop computer is a Mac Pro, and I've got both Snow Leopard and Windows XP on it. Using either Toast 9.0.7 or something under Windows, can I burn inexpensive, commonplace DVD-R discs (not interested in burning BD at this point) from my SDHC card images and expect them to play back smoothly and easily on the PS3?

If the answer is yes, is it even necessary to use software that burns a "Blu-Ray DVD" or can the discs I burn simply be DVD-ROM (UDF) with the exact contents of the AVCHD disk images on them?

Drew,

You can burn so-called 'AVCHD' disks which contain the full resolution high def content from your HF100 onto standard (red laser) DVDs using Toast on the Mac or a half-dozen PC programs. A standard (20 cent) blank disk holds around 22 minutes of content recorded at the highest HF100 quality (17 Mbits/sec). These disks can contain menus with animation / motion and sound, have chapters, and (with the right software) can even have selectable subtitles which play exactly the same as regular DVDs will on the PS3 and other BluRay players. If you want to double the length of the disk, use dual layer blanks, which cost around a buck apiece.

Larry
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