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Old June 4th, 2008, 04:59 PM   #46
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Version 3 Architecture

Keep in mind that the upcoming Version 3 Media Composer has a different processing architecture that splits tasks between the multithreaded processor your graphics processor, and main memory. As I understand, your graphics card is going to get more of a workout than past versions or even the current version .

So, 128 MB on board graphics or 128MB seperate graphics card may not cut it. I plan on upgrading to a 512 MB PCIe card.

Cheers.
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Old June 4th, 2008, 07:04 PM   #47
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I'm at home now, but if I remember correctly, the NVIDIA card I spec'd out is 256.(not integrated AFAIK) And I figured the more RAM the better, no?

As far as I can tell it only has one firewire port, so I guess I would need an add on to handle both the DSR11 and the External firewire HD.(yes still SD, heck I'm just getting them to switch to DVD distribution!)

I work in the state capital at the "central office" but my work supports all the counties and offices, so I shoot all over the state. 70 mile round trip daily commute to the office and I don't really need to be tied there, it's not like I have an actual studio (I WISH!!) So I am looking at this as a way to be more flexible and maybe as gas prices continue to rise, have the chance to "work at home" at least a day or two a week. It's still in the early feeling it out stages. Not nearly ready to order anything.

I tried a few years, well quite a few now that I think about it, to get them to let me try to find office space in my local county, but it's beyond their way of thinking. I'm already in a different building that the rest of my office, so what is another 35 miles right? LOL

I appreciate the help and any advice is welcome!
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Old August 18th, 2008, 03:07 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Harper View Post
I'm tired of seeing what my friends that use FCP can do, particularly with titles, while Vegas barely changes or advances. Vegas recently added the Pro Titler, what a joke that was.

Vegas was great to get started on a couple of years ago, but it lacks so much and I'm tired of the lack of third party support.

What kind of ride am would I be in for starting all over with Media Composer?

If there are any former or current Vegas users that have good knowledge of both of these NLE's that can share their experience with the transition I would appreciate it.

1. Does one start with the Media Composer alone or is it best to buy a bundle with hardware, etc. and if so what is the purpose of the additional hardware? As a Vegas user I've never been required to purchase additional hardware, so this is a new concept for me.

2. How well Media Composer will function on a laptop vs Vegas, as I'm considering purchasing a new laptop. I've read that Avid is less demanding of resources than Vegas, but I have no idea if that is true.
Hi Jeff,

I'm familiar with both Vegas and MC, and I can tell you there are pros and cons to both. Personally, I feel Vegas is much more user friendly in general than Media Composer. There are many things that are so easy in Vegas, you'd think they'd be at least as easy in a much more expensive NLE, but that is not always the case. For example, in Vegas, you can adjust your audio level as you play your timeline... in Avid, you touch your audio level and it stops. You have to start and stop the whole time. There are numerous other little examples like this, but in a nutshell, things like this is why I think Vegas is easier to use in general.

Something that's always attracted me to Vegas is all you need is a normal computer. For example, Avid uses what they call "media drives" which are basically hard drives in a big case. They are not all that big space wise for the premium prices. Avid also can use a normal external hard drive, and in my experience, these work as good as if not better than their "media drives". When we bought an Avid at the tv station where I work in '05, the AVID REP said we could buy the monitors from him, or go to Best Buy and get them for $250 each, as they are the exact, same monitors as what they are selling for $2,500! It probably sounds like I'm making this stuff up, but I swear it's the truth, and still have a copy of the receipt to prove the monitor price.

Much of the other additional hardware (Adrenaline box, Mojo, etc.) are to convert various signals into the system. This is a good thing to have, but these boxes are "gol'darn" expensive!

However, Avid is very good with special effects. There are many things it can do Vegas can't. There are also a few things that are easier in MC than Vegas, for example, the picture and picture function and making video boxes. I only have Vegas 6, but in that version, I still find these very clunky after about 4 years. The advanced fancy effects are probably Avid's strong suit. I've also found there are many things that can be done in After Effects that Avid can do easier and more efficiently.

The titling in Avid is pretty good if you have the Marquee titler. The standard one is about as basic as Vegas.

To answer your numbered questions, you'd probably be better getting a bundle straight away, as Avid needs tons of beef: big processor, preferably dual, tons of RAM, etc. As far as Avid not needing as much computing power, trust me, the exact opposite is the case. Vegas on a laptop is no problem, but an Avid would require a high end sized laptop... I wouldn't want to run a newer MC without a dual processor anymore. Also, you almost need 2 monitors with the workspace.


Also, there's the file system. In MC, your actual video file (omfi or mxf) resides on your media drives, and you edit clips that point to these files. Too often, an omfi or mxf file becomes corrupted and we end up spending a few hours trying to track it down. These unusual files and the way they are in the system also make archiving projects very different, being a whole process. There's no drag and dropping .avi's, but a big huge process.

There are strengths and weaknesses to every NLE, imho. If I had to choose between the 2 it would be a matter of what I wanted to accomplish. I also use Adobe Premiere, and that seems to be a happy medium between the two. I don't yet have any FCP experience, but would love to have the opportunity to... I'd really be curious as to how that stacks up with the others.

Best of luck!

Mark
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Old August 19th, 2008, 06:19 PM   #49
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Mark,

I run Avid Xpress Pro 5.8.3 on single core Pentium 4 with an NVIDIA Quadro FX 1100 APG 8X video card. I use stock harddrives, no mojo, no other Avid hardware. I also have Vegas 8.0 Pro. I can tell you that hands down Avid runs faster and smoother with HDV.

I've never had a media file get corrupted with either application. I believe that for cutting video, assmbling shots, Avid is superior to anything else on the market.

As for playing audio while making changes, use the Audio Loop Play button on the Audio Mixer tool. It will contiunously loop play the clip (respecting any In or Out marks) while you make changes.

I am no expert, but here is my understanding of Avid, Vegas and FCP.

Avid MC: best for cutting, easy for post shops to conform. Excellent for large projects with multiple users. Best file managemet.

Vegas: superior audio. Video editing tools not very advanced. DVD Architect very nice.

FCP: if you are a one man shop, it may be the best. Cutting not as good a Avid, but with the addition of Color, you have markedly superior color correction tools. Gaining acceptance in professional production everyday.

Last edited by Peter Moretti; August 20th, 2008 at 02:15 AM.
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Old August 19th, 2008, 06:28 PM   #50
 
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fwiw....
you're pretty right on about avid
vegas has compositing, avid does not, and needs After Effects.
FCP has ALL the problems associated with color and quicktime.
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Old August 22nd, 2008, 03:53 PM   #51
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Bill, I think you switched "Avid" and "Vegas" in your post.
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Old August 22nd, 2008, 06:04 PM   #52
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I have to say, that for me Vegas is the easiest NLE I have used.
Points I like:
Can run on a stock standard computer.
Great audio features.
Easy to capture
Very easy to edit,colour correct,place titles.
Can change project settings with a click.
Great looking renders in all formats that I use, mpeg,avi,264,wmv etc...
I can put 2hrs of HD mt2 files on the timeline without a problem of the thing crashing.
I can insert, drag, pull, push anything on the timeline without fear of things going missing.
Vegas is rock solid, the best NLE I have used so far. I have been testing on PC... PPCS3, Avid and Vegas and Vegas wins hands down for me in Price,stabilty,features.
The one thing I like above everything is I can click,move,adjust things while the time line is playing.

Things that could be better.
Abilty to prerender sections and for Vegas to recall this at all times.
Preview is a problem only with HD and heavy CC. SD footage plays well.I use a Quad core system.

I use Vegas now for all my Editing projects.
Looking forward to the next version of Vegas.
Nick
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Old September 18th, 2008, 07:00 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Moretti View Post
Bill, I think you switched "Avid" and "Vegas" in your post.
I am wrong. I'm actually getting more and more impressed w/ Vegas, BTW. Color correction in particular seems pretty darn nice, IMHO.
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Old September 18th, 2008, 06:07 PM   #54
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I like Vegas very much except for the titling. I find it incredibly flexible and fast with zillions of output options and the ability to put almost any format in the timeline, even mixed formats. I think its starting to catch on a bit and others aren't laughing quite as loud as they were a few years back (perhaps its nervous laughter).
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Old October 3rd, 2008, 08:54 AM   #55
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Since Vegas upgrades scare me, I'm left with a choice of Vegas 8 for 500.00 or what, Avid Xpress Studio Toolkit 5.6 for 1000.00. Hmmm. I guess I should download the trial of Avid.
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Old October 3rd, 2008, 09:19 AM   #56
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Why do Vegas upgrades scare you?

The way I understand it, the upgrade is the full software, it just needs to see the previous version on the system before it will install. It doesn't install over the old version but is a separate installation, and you can still run the old version. Please someone correct me if I am wrong.

I edit on Avid for my day job, and use both that and Vegas 6 at home, and find myself defaulting to Vegas these days. And this is what is making decided on an upgrade at work difficult. Do i upgrade Avid of switch to Vegas? (one person video production department).
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Old October 3rd, 2008, 09:44 AM   #57
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When I began this thread in May, about 5 months ago, I have come full circle to appreciate Vegas more than ever.

If I had the extra money and time to spend, I would likely get a new mac and FCP. But I don't. I played with Avid, it's just not me.

And I still wish I could create the amazing DVD menus with the ease of my FCP friends. But Vegas is rock-solid and stable, and I'm getting the job done.

Vegas had me up and running very quickly when I started, and though I've had very some minor issues along the way, I can't imagine an NLE that runs better.
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Old October 3rd, 2008, 11:51 AM   #58
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Thanks Bill, knowing that the full version is full, and not a partial upgrade is comforting, I don't like upgrades, partial installs ect. And thanks Jeff, for the update on the full circle you've come to. I've been having some quirks with my multicam, and it's frustrated me to the point I felt like changing software. I'm still chewing on it.
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Old October 3rd, 2008, 11:55 AM   #59
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Personally I use quad cam with Ultimate S...I like it so much I've never even tried the built in multi-cam feature of Vegas (never heard much good about it). I suggest if you stay with Vegas trying out Ultimate S demo, it is SO worth it's price! Of course there are many that are crazy about Excalibur; however I can personally only speak for my experience, and that is with Ultimate S.
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Old October 3rd, 2008, 12:13 PM   #60
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Thanks Jeff
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