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Old October 15th, 2008, 12:55 AM   #1
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No Blu-Ray for Macs coming soon.....

Steve Jobs calls Blu-Ray "a bag of hurt".....

Hardly encouraging news for those with Macs who wish to author BluRay disks...... And pretty outrageous considering that BluRay burners have been on the market for over two and a half years and there are (at least) 11 programs for making BluRay disks on the PC.......

Apple's Steve Jobs calls Blu-ray "a bag of hurt" - Engadget
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Old October 15th, 2008, 04:44 AM   #2
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I read about the Mac laptops with the NVIDIA chipset. I noted they do not have HDMI out and likely do not have HDCP.

The modifications that would need to be made to OS X are indeed "a bag of hurt". I'm doing a story on what's in Vista to meet DRM. Crazy complex.

If ATV had a super chip to upscale downloaded 720p content to FullHD at 1080p24, 1080i60, 1080p60 -- plus the ability to play 1080i60 transferred from your own computer -- it would be a great alternative to BD for many of us.
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Old October 15th, 2008, 05:02 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Steve Mullen View Post
If ATV had a super chip to upscale downloaded 720p content to FullHD at 1080p24, 1080i60, 1080p60 -- plus the ability to play 1080i60 transferred from your own computer -- it would be a great alternative to BD for many of us.
Don't know about yours, but my Apple TV does output 1080i60. If you use HDMI, it will do 1080P as well. So there must be some scaling going on somewhere.

It's been said for awhile now that Jobs' vision of HD distribution is not in Blu-Ray, but online as in iTunes store.

-gb-
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Old October 15th, 2008, 05:46 AM   #4
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Never mind Jobs 'vision', what about people who actually need to create Blu-Ray discs because a client demands it? I know it is relatively rare right now, but the Mac cannot be used as a pro platform unless it caters to pros needs.

How does Joe Soap Video Company distribute a high definition corporate production via ATV?!
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Old October 15th, 2008, 08:16 AM   #5
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Don't know about yours, but my Apple TV does output 1080i60. If you use HDMI, it will do 1080P as well. So there must be some scaling going on somewhere.

It's been said for awhile now that Jobs' vision of HD distribution is not in Blu-Ray, but online as in iTunes store.

-gb-
Apple TV's 1080p is actually 720p scaled. It doesn't do real 1080p. Another reasonable professional delivery solution crippled.

I'm getting so tired of this company dragging its feet on integrated professional HD delivery solutions. It has nothing to do with "can't" and everything to do with "won't"...it's mystifying really. If I can spend a thousand bucks on the Blu-Ray workaround, surely they can put out an integrated, reasonably priced solution. This isn't rocket science, it's politics.

Having ranted on Mac, let me just spread the blame around to Sony as well, because Jobs is right. Blu-Ray is a "bag of hurt" -- Sony's licensing structure is ridiculous and complex, playback is inconsistent across machines, and why is the PS3 the best way to play a Blu-Ray disk?

Still, you would think that Mac would make an Apple TV unit that could slay Blu-Ray once and for all and give us something that we need - true high end HD delivery at a reasonable price....

if RED brings their RED RAY project to life, they could clean up in this house of hurt...
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Old October 15th, 2008, 08:53 AM   #6
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Wow.

The entire Hollywood contingent has gone BluRay. Nearly every computer supplier in the world is shipping BluRay in their computers now. BluRay set top units are $299 at Best Buy. Even the former members of the HD-DVD consortium are pushing out BluRay.

And yet you lay the blame at Sony's feet instead of squarely where it belongs... at Apple headquarters.

Apple loyalty never ceases to amaze me.
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Old October 15th, 2008, 09:08 AM   #7
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Apple clearly states the reason they do not want to add this is do to the expense and complexity in the licensing. (Apple is not a company that is short on cash) Sony is just making it very difficult in my opinion for the independant producer to follow with the program, the entire Hollywood contingent as you put it have an unbelievable amount of money at thier disposal and blue-ray is of benifit to them and justifies the expense. Apple on the other hand has no need to add blue-ray other then to please all the independants that need the Blue-ray for thier projects. Hardly enough reason to justify spending all the money and going through all the hassel. That is all I am trying to say. Gary
Note The blue-ray in the computers shipping now are mostly players not burners.

Last edited by Gary Williams; October 15th, 2008 at 09:41 AM.
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Old October 15th, 2008, 10:07 AM   #8
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Apple clearly states the reason they do not want to add this is do to the expense and complexity in the licensing.
Garbage. Apple don't want to do this because it cuts into their iTunes HD delivery plans. Plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by Gary Williams View Post
(Apple is not a company that is short on cash) Sony is just making it very difficult in my opinion for the independant producer to follow with the program
No it's not. Dell, HP, IBM/Lenovo, etc., all have Bluray. You think it's more difficult somehow for Apple than for them?

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Apple on the other hand has no need to add blue-ray other then to please all the independants that need the Blue-ray for thier projects.
Really? So those people who own apple for reasons other than independent production wouldn't like to take advantage of the 25/50GB storage space? Or do you believe that Apple's primary market is those doing independent film?


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Hardly enough reason to justify spending all the money and going through all the hassel. That is all I am trying to say. Gary
Call it like you see it man, but for every other major manufacturer of laptops, it WAS worth the expense. But then, they aren't pushing a competing technology to BluRay.

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Note The blue-ray in the computers shipping now are mostly players not burners.
Really? When is the last time you bought a laptop? When I bought mine this summer, every manufacturer I looked at had BluRay burners available in the machine if I wanted it. Except Apple of course, so no MBP for me. But I am enjoying my Dell M6300.
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Old October 15th, 2008, 10:18 AM   #9
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oops.. i'm gonna hold my horses on Mac conversion if thaz true..bluerays gotta be in MAc in 2010 the latest.
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Old October 15th, 2008, 02:04 PM   #10
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Just a shame that a new Mac buyer, even if they buy the latest Mac laptops introduced yesterday, doesn't even have a way to play BluRay disks, let alone author them. By the time Apple implements BluRay support, the format may already be replaced..... :-)


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Old October 15th, 2008, 02:12 PM   #11
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I'm quite certain that Apple is trying to push HD movies through the iTunes store, and that's their main motive.

However, what about the Pros needing Blu-Ray burners to create their HD media.. wasn't the year of HD 3 years ago now?! I for one have been shooting HD exclusively for 3 years now! Wish I could burn it!
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Old October 15th, 2008, 02:25 PM   #12
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Well, there certainly isn't any BR band wagon. I have not had a client yet ask for a BR DVD. The industry is still pumping out SD-DVDs, and as long as they do, BR is probably DIW. Compare the cost of an up-converting SD-DVD player to a BR player, and the quality on an HD screen and the public is not going to commit to BR. I'm certainly not.

The real advantage is the increased data storage, but that's not going to be a market driver.
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Old October 15th, 2008, 03:09 PM   #13
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Well, there certainly isn't any BR band wagon. I have not had a client yet ask for a BR DVD. The industry is still pumping out SD-DVDs, and as long as they do, BR is probably DIW. Compare the cost of an up-converting SD-DVD player to a BR player, and the quality on an HD screen and the public is not going to commit to BR. I'm certainly not.
Boy, I remember all these same arguments when DVD was replacing VHS. Up-converters sound a lot like S-VHS. An improvement on older technology who's days are numbered.

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The real advantage is the increased data storage, but that's not going to be a market driver.
I completely disagree. I used to shoot my long form projects on miniDV, edit on my drives, and write the raw and finished projects out to full size DV. I'd make two purchases a year of full-sized DV tapes.

This summer, I bought a BluRay burner. And an HD camera. Now, I shoot onto media cards, edit on my drives, and write raw and finished materials out to BluRay. Same workflow, new tools. What I didn't expect, was that I would start archiving SD projects to BluRay. And storing work data out to BluRay. I bought 10 50GB BluRay disks two months ago. I have 3 left, and 3 more video projects to finish before mid December.

It's merely a matter of time before the hardware (servers, PCs, etc.) start to catch up to the BluRay spec. I'd give it 18 months. The internal burners will be about $100-$150, the media will be $6-$10 (same place DL-DVD was 2 years ago) and we'll be switching.

Apple can keep their head in the sand if they want to. But the only HD people will be downloading is for their iPods. No one is going to way half a day to download 30GB worth of movie data to watch on their home computer connected to their flat screen. The infrastructure just isn't there yet to support what Apple is reaching for. The network has not yet replaced the disk as the best delivery medium, regardless of what the boys in the think-tank are dreaming up.
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Old October 15th, 2008, 03:56 PM   #14
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I see the application as an archive medium, but are you guys seeing a lot of requests for Blu-ray delivery? Everyone I know who has a Blu-ray actually has a PS3... and I just throw an MP4 on a thumb drive and it works for them. Are your clients actually requesting Blu-ray?
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Old October 15th, 2008, 04:28 PM   #15
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apple recently stated no interest in adding blue-ray to the Mac do to the expense and complexity of the Sony license. I new this would happen if HD or red-ray did not win. This is not great news!
Three things Apple won't do (CNET) by CNET: Yahoo! Tech
Doesn't affect me yet and I frequently supply video projects for projection at independent film theaters. Most theaters around here don't use Blu-Ray, they have Digi-Beta, DVD and/or some sort of server feed into their HD projectors. Some theaters still will not play from DVDs because of incompatibilty problems from cheap DVD-R discs. I've seen what can happen with an incompatible DVD in a theater and it's not fun for the owner. The DVD plays great for 60 minutes and then stutters and freezes. Refunds for the audience! Tape is still more reliable. And the up-conversion usually looks great except for titles.

The turn over from VHS to DVD took hold after most new DVD players were designed well enough that they could play most DVD-R discs. Before that DVD was an unreliable distribution method unless they were replicated which is still out of the reach of most people's DVD needs.

Apple will support Blu-Ray sooner then later but with blank media around $15 a disc and cheap burners around $350 don't expect a lot of action right now. And how much of these prices comes from the Sony/Blu Ray license fees?
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