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Old April 9th, 2014, 01:12 PM   #1
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C100: Be happy!

NAB is drawing to a close. The three ring circus has once again delivered. But hey, even though I started a savings pot for an AJA Cion, almost put down a deposit for an Ursa, spent time working out the economics of investing in a Sony A7S with Shogun, once again listened to GH4 officianadoes and tried to get excited about JVC Kenwood, I've had enough morning-after coffee to be really pleases with what we've currently got.

AJA's Cion is PL only, and now we hear that EF mount is a third party opportunity (it's not going to happen due to flange-back). PL lenses may suddenly get a little bit cheaper, but not Samyang cheap. We invested in good glass - good photo glass, and no - an $8k camera will not be bought by someone who rents lenses.

Black Magic's Ursa needs a round of applause for its chutzpah. Weight. No ND (like Cion). Sheer size. It selects its market very well. But remember that this uses C-Fast2 cards, and they're currently eye-wateringly expensive - $1.2k for 20 mins of ProRes or 6 mins of raw recording.

Sony's A7S looked a little like a miniature Darth Vader DSLR, and its audio bridge is a little awkward, then you add the Atomos Shogun which is a third party product that actually makes the A7S deliver, and it's all a bit big and wobbly. I'm sure the pictures will be lovely, but the kit assembly isn't exactly Run & Gun friendly.

Panasonic's GH4 is actually looking quite sane now. It's a pity that any Canon/Nikkor user has to invest in a whole new set of glass to make it all work nicely, but the YAGH is just a little too cumbersome - the power requirements make it tie with the slightly Heath Robinson A7S configuration - which, now that I come to think of it, wins because of the Metabones Speed Booster.

Then there's the boutiques - Digital Bolex, BM Studio cameras, et al. 200ISO cameras. Moving on. JVC Kenwood? Confusing signals - MFT mount onto S35 sensor, 'me too' ergonomics. I couldn't get excited.

And so we think about the complete non-news C100. Pfft. Nothing.

It still makes great images, it has great ergonomics, it has ND, it has brilliant focus tricks with the DPAF, the Atomos Ninja Blade lifts it to a whole new level, it does all its trickery onto $20 SDHC cards, it's like a medium format DSLR for handheld use, it just freakin' works. It earns us money.

I really don't think the C100 has anything to worry about for the next 12 months, and like the EX1 will probably punch above its weight for a while yet.
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Old April 9th, 2014, 01:27 PM   #2
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Re: C100: Be happy!

Yep, nothing really drew me in. the a7s looks the most intriguing, and probably the only thing i'll keep an eye on. shogun is too big for my needs, when they/someone else makes a 5" version i'll be interested. also the zacuto evf looks nice if they keep the prices competitive to the alphatron/cineroid market
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Old April 9th, 2014, 01:55 PM   #3
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Re: C100: Be happy!

Good post Matt. Couldn't agree more. As Darren notes, the Sony a7s is the most promising development - but I'm not keen on the ergonomics at all, personally. C100 and my Ninja Blade is about as cumbersome as I want it to get.

My prediction is we won't see a C300 replacement/upgrade announcement until around November 2014 (it will be a 3 year old model by then). C100 replacement/upgrade 6-12 months after that. Canon seem to do these things every 3 years (but then the Tsunami knocked them really bad, so if anything that typical cycle may well slip a little further).

In the meantime I have some incredible tools in my kit bag that even 5-7 years ago I could only of dreamed of - so will just carry on using them and making some money...and be happy! :-)
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Old April 9th, 2014, 06:45 PM   #4
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Re: C100: Be happy!

I agree that the C100 is still going to be delivering the goods for quite a while longer yet. I haven't seen anything from the Blackmagics that I feel is superior enough to make me give up the form factor, and now we have the Ninja Star to take up little space and still provide ProRes recording (though the robustness of that unit remains to be seen).

I sent mine off before I left for Vegas for Dual Pixel AF, and looking forward to how that will help me with the shooting scenarios I will use it for, primarily awkwardly positioned shots where I can't pull focus or be barely able to make out the screen.
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Old April 10th, 2014, 12:21 AM   #5
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Re: C100: Be happy!

Thanks Matt. That is a very solid assessment of the vendor circus that is NAB. In the meantime, I'm waiting for FedEx to deliver my oh so antiquated C100 back from being upgraded. I'm happy that progress is made in the industry but am totally underwhelmed at being told that my last year state of the art is just so much SD. Not. I'll plug in my Odyssey or Ninja and just keep on producing wonderful looking footage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Davis View Post
NAB is drawing to a close. The three ring circus has once again delivered. But hey, even though I started a savings pot for an AJA Cion, almost put down a deposit for an Ursa, spent time working out the economics of investing in a Sony A7S with Shogun, once again listened to GH4 officianadoes and tried to get excited about JVC Kenwood, I've had enough morning-after coffee to be really pleases with what we've currently got.

It still makes great images, it has great ergonomics, it has ND, it has brilliant focus tricks with the DPAF, the Atomos Ninja Blade lifts it to a whole new level, it does all its trickery onto $20 SDHC cards, it's like a medium format DSLR for handheld use, it just freakin' works. It earns us money.

I really don't think the C100 has anything to worry about for the next 12 months, and like the EX1 will probably punch above its weight for a while yet.
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Old April 10th, 2014, 03:00 AM   #6
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Re: C100: Be happy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Davis View Post
the Atomos Ninja Blade lifts it to a whole new level
I found it funny where you see add on recorders as cumbersome on other camera's yet great with the c100 :) It's true most new camera's require some sort of rigging or you need to add accessories to make it more complete where the c100 is more of a complete package, but I think you need to compare price with "needed" features, the gh4 in it's bare form is a fraction of the c100 cost yet can shoot 4k internally and while outputting 4k has no immediate use yet it does have some big advantages when you want to crop in a 1080p project. The sony a7s needs an external recorder for 4k so you need to get a rig as well but those combined should be around the c100 price but then you will get 4k and a new level of clean high iso shooting. The main advantages of both camera's I just mentioned is the fact that you could shoot without all those extra's and get a very small formfactor, like it fits in my jacket pocket kind of small, and still get good looking footage with it

The question is not what camera will be better, it's only what camera works best for you, they are only tools, you focus on the content first and then choose the tool you need to help you provide that content. For some that will be the c100, for other the gh4 or whatever other model, I think too much people still believe that a certain new camera will make them better filmmakers, unfortunately they don't.
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Old April 10th, 2014, 05:11 AM   #7
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Re: C100: Be happy!

Yeah, after holding off to see what NAB brought out, I went ahead and ordered my PMW-300. 4K is nice and all, but XDCAM is still the most requested format out here. And I don't need any external recorders.
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Old April 10th, 2014, 06:31 AM   #8
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Re: C100: Be happy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
I found it funny where you see add on recorders as cumbersome on other camera's yet great with the c100 :)
Or more to the point, the joy of seeing its nice looking pictures on a decent screen, the ability to play back the last shot with sound (bloody hell, Canon - what were you thinking?), letting the talent see themselves and work out hand-waving room. Over on 'the other forum' Ben Giles has been showing off his NB on an Edelkrone EVF bracket, which looks like a very logical and neat solution for the C100.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
I think too much people still believe that a certain new camera will make them better filmmakers, unfortunately they don't.
Alas yes. Or to invest in the latest camera hype in the hope of branching into new sorts of work.
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Old April 10th, 2014, 07:16 AM   #9
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Re: C100: Be happy!

I for instance would not buy a camera that can't do 1080p 50p, it is not crucial for my type of shooting but I would hate to go back to a 25p only camera, I also would not need a 4K camera right now but it sure would come in handy on some shots, I do need good low light performance and my current camera's do allright but that new sony a7s low light demo shots look very tempting.

I do like where some cameramanufacturers are going with their new models, like Sony, their rx10 ticks a lot of boxes when it comes to videofunctionality, just providing for a build in nd filter, zebra's etc is just great if you are coming from first gen video dslr's, I"m sure their a7s will be very popular as well. Panasonic is also giving dslr users more what they really need.

With Canon I see they wait much longer to develop new stuff but they tend to make something more complete which doesn't have to be replaced every year but they do price accordingly. They tend to have some ridiculous prizesdifferences, like between the c100 and 300, just for some minor but important differences, if you want something a bit better you pay a high premium.
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Old April 10th, 2014, 07:49 AM   #10
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Re: C100: Be happy!

Ah Matt, as ever a voice of common sense. Personally I could not give a stuff about NAB and the latest offerings, yes, some nice baubles, yet nothing much that will make me more money, or more productive. Of course the C100 is not perfect, however for me it does the job and I suspect will suffice for many years to come. Of course I should qualify my remarks by the type of work I do: i.e. non broadcast, corporate, not-for-profits - 99% web video, interviews, semi docos and event recording. For this, the c100 combined with either
an EX1 or a GH3 gets the results I need. 4K phhh...not on the radar, my clients couldn't care less.
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Old April 11th, 2014, 03:49 PM   #11
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Re: C100: Be happy!

My clients aren't bothered about 4K yet either, and the longer I can be 'not bothered' about it, the easier life is here at Action Towers.

For what I do, corporate, doco interviews and events, I love the C100 for its versatility. OK, there's one or two things I'd like adding to it, but generally, it hits the spot for everything I do, and same as Al says, I'll just keep on using it to make wonderful images and as Andy says, keep making money.
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Old April 12th, 2014, 12:40 AM   #12
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Re: C100: Be happy!

Hi to all, seems like we have some c100 pros here so I want to take advantage with some questions. I just picked up my new c100 last week (I already brought it to Canon for the AF upgrade). I hope these questions don't make me sound too ignorant......

Can someone explain the different frame rates that this camera has (60i, pf30, pf24, 24p) what on earth is the difference between pf24 and 24p?

I shoot only weddings. Having said that, does it not seem practical to shoot everything in 60i? For reasons such as slow motion, and doing quick pans, etc. My eyes don't see that "filmic" beauty in shooting 24p that everyone talks about. When I set the camera in 24p I get that strobe effect even if I'm slowly panning. To be honest, I don't do much panning but what happens when I shoot the bride and groom moving around or walking or dancing at the reception, won't this screw the editors up when they try and slow mo it? Is it just me that doesn't grasp the concept of shooting like film?

Also, I'm curious to hear from wedding shooters as to what picture profiles you guys use. For me, so far it's a toss up between Wide DR and EOS standard. Any thoughts on these?

Thanks in advance to all for your help!
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Old April 12th, 2014, 08:56 AM   #13
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Re: C100: Be happy!

Matt, it sounds like we've been drinking the same coffee.

Until I can get a C100 quality camera that does 4K/50p (or higher) on to rationally priced media that also uses all my current investment in glass then why change?

The GH4 looks interesting with appropriate adapters, but we really don't know enough about it yet. The sample footage looks great, but zoom in to a 1920x1080 crop and I was majorly disappointed.

I'm holding off the Ninja Blade until everything is fixed, though playing with it at BVE convinced me it's probably a worthwhile upgrade over Ninja 2. OTOH, it may make more sense to wait and get a 4K capable recorder first time instead of buying twice.

I'd like to bet the 7D2 or 5D4 will be Canon's intro in to the low end 4K arena, but I really don't want to go back to DSLR unless it also has all the bells and whistles, like zebras, waveform, good audio. They certainly won't have NDs and knowing Canon's history they'll be crippled just enough to keep their marketing guys happy. If the 7D2 isn't 4K then I'd have to wonder about Canon's thinking going forward
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Old April 12th, 2014, 09:44 AM   #14
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Re: C100: Be happy!

Random thought: Is 4k through the C100 hdmi port possible? I've read the C100 has a 4k sensor so just wondering if Canon can unlock 4k via firmware? The new 4k recorder from Atomos would make a good purchase...

Tbh 4k is not important to me either. The clean 1080p from my C100 is perfect for my business at the moment. :)
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Old April 12th, 2014, 12:27 PM   #15
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Re: C100: Be happy!

I'd also be super interested in whether Canon can unlock 4k via some firmware changes. I'm betting they probably won't, as they probably could have shipped it with 4k already but didn't want to cannibalize c500 sales.

But it'd be nice to know if they could. The Magic Lantern guys have outright refused to touch it for legal reasons, which again leads me to believe it's possible.

And yeah, 4k isn't important to me either, but there are lots of hiring producers out there demanding 4k, whether they actually need it or not.
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